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Where is the absolute proof that this is caused by genetics?
that would be the tie if this was true. I am also not convinced that you cannot change your sexual orientation, I have heard of people that have converted.
You don't have to believe in the Bible, you have your own free will. I am talking about Bible-based Christians who believe in the morality of the Bible. Nadiine gave proof it wasn't just talking about male prositution like everyone is saying.Where is the absolute proof that homosexuality is immoral in the eyes of God, and sorry, the Bible doesn't cut it.
Some can, most can. Don't believe, try changing yours, you'll see what it's like.
You can change your 'orientation', or at least your activeness in persueing one or the other sex. I quite happily went from a heterosexual to a bisexual, once I got over silly notions of the 'evilness' of same-sex attraction. There is little doubt from the scientific evidence that there are inborn factors contributing to homosexuality, but to say anyone doesn't have control over their own actions is merely an excuse. And as far as I've seen, the thought that any person couldn't match up happily with some person of EITHER sex is farfetched. That aside, I have yet to see good Biblical evidence that same-sex love is wrong (PLEASE don't go into a stretch of all 6 verses mentioning homosexuality, this has been argued to death in so many threads, I already know each one and you won't be any more convincing than anyone else), and thus, I say, however a person finds love is righteous.
Yea, I'm certain. First, I'm not discounting the 'evidence that is in the Bible'- I'm discounting the modern interpretation of it. But secondly, I went about looking at it with reason and prayer and openness, and it comes to be, quite plainly, that homosexual love is not wrong. Furthermore, I find the idea of homosexuality being sinful being completely incompatible with Jesus Christ as I know him through my personal relationship. In addition, I simply would not believe in a God that is so backwards and foolish as to conceive homosexuality as a sin against him. My Lord is not so pathetic as to make up arbitrary and silly laws.What made you discount the evidence that is in the Bible? Even though you have justified it out in your mind and your life, are you certain God doesn't have an issue with it?
Where is the absolute proof that this is caused by genetics? that would be the tie if this was true. I am also not convinced that you cannot change your sexual orientation, I have heard of people that have converted.
I agree, and I am working as hard as I can to dispell the myths.No, they are a homosexual, just as I was always a heterosexual before I had sex.
These lies and distortions can not be allowed to stand unchallanged by the truth and facts.
Exactly, how exactly are we supposed to have a discussion of homosexuality within the Christian Ethics section of this site and not bring biblical morality into the mix? If you all want to talk about the good, bad, and the ugly of the homosexual ethos, I suggest we request this thread be moved to a NON-CHRISTIAN part of the forum.What made you discount the evidence that is in the Bible? Even though you have justified it out in your mind and your life, are you certain God doesn't have an issue with it?
I too am a christian, and homosexuals do not choose their sin I know this because I have homosexual friends and you can't tell me they chose it because it upsets them, and causes them stress. They did not choose something. Trying to convince me of that is like trying to tell a black guy he's not black.
First, I'm not discounting the 'evidence that is in the Bible'- I'm discounting the modern interpretation of it.
I find the idea of homosexuality being sinful being completely incompatible with Jesus Christ as I know him through my personal relationship.
In addition, I simply would not believe in a God that is so backwards and foolish as to conceive homosexuality as a sin against him.
My Lord is not so pathetic as to make up arbitrary and silly laws.
The problem with the fragments of the Bible which may appear to condemn homosexuality is that they can be interpreted in different ways, especially when you take the historical and cultural context into account... that's why I think the only way to determine the morality of homosexuality is by looking outside the Bible, without any preconceptions...and when I look at the idea of homosexuality without any preconceptions, I only see two people of the same gender who fall in love with each other... I don't see anything bad about that.Exactly, how exactly are we supposed to have a discussion of homosexuality within the Christian Ethics section of this site and not bring biblical morality into the mix? If you all want to talk about the good, bad, and the ugly of the homosexual ethos, I suggest we request this thread be moved to a NON-CHRISTIAN part of the forum.
Sorry hon, that's a ideology known as post-modernism and is incompatible with orthodox, traditional, historical Christianity.The problem with the fragments of the Bible which may appear to condemn homosexuality is that they can be interpreted in different ways, especially when you take the historical and cultural context into account... that's why I think the only way to determine the morality of homosexuality is by looking outside the Bible, without any preconceptions...and when I look at the idea of homosexuality without any preconceptions, I only see two people of the same gender who fall in love with each other... I don't see anything bad about that.
By the way, there's no non-Christian part of CF... there's only a Nicene Creed Christian part, and a part open to everyone...
Sorry hon, that's a ideology known as post-modernism and is incompatible with orthodox, traditional, historical Christianity.
The problem with the fragments of the Bible which may appear to condemn homosexuality is that they can be interpreted in different ways, especially when you take the historical and cultural context into account...
Romans 1:26-27 KJV
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
or NIV is that is preferred
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
And NASB, just for comparison
26For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
Roman's 1:27
I don't speek ancient greek first hand, but according to Strong's, greek words used for "men" through the whole verse are
αρρσην and αρσην
male (as stronger for lifting): - male, man.
and the word used for lust was
orexis
excitement of the mind, that is, longing after: - lust.
And the word for another
ἀλλήλων
one another. : - each other, mutual, one another, (the other), (them-, your-) selves, (selves) together
Males longing after other males. How can that be misunderstood?
that's why I think the only way to determine the morality of homosexuality is by looking outside the Bible, without any preconceptions...
I'm not sureHow well does that fit with scripture?
I'm not surePost-modernism didn't exist when the Bible was written, I think...
I'm still not sure how that would affect the statement that in verse 26, it is called "shameful lust", "vile affections", and "degrading passions", in direct relation to the same sex desires. Whether it was in a temple or not, how does that affect the adjectives that describe the desire?As for the passage you posted before, I've read about a very convincing interpretation that it's a description of a ritual sex in some pagan temples... if you want, I'll try to find something about it in Google
Yes, but the Bible can be viewed in many different ways...But the Bible does speak to mindset and how it stands up to other beliefs.
I'm still not sure how that would affect the statement that in verse 26, it is called "shameful lust", "vile affections", and "degrading passions", in direct relation to the same sex desires. Whether it was in a temple or not, how does that affect the adjectives that describe the desire?
It doesn't. In orthodox, historical, tradition Christianity, Jesus is the Way the Truth and the Life.How well does that fit with scripture?
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