Homosexuality

[ScottBot]

Clearly you've already decided that you have a firm grasp on this subject so I'm sure there is little point in my responding. However....



Right. So, if this is a story about homosexuality, that would mean that there were not 5 straight men in the entire city? Not 5 straight women? How likely is that really? They were obviously not very good people but God never said why.



How do you know? Only Lot took in the angels, remember? Maybe it was a lack of hospitality. Obviously, that is unlikely but we really don't know.



Maybe their aggressiveness and abusiveness was their sin.

Maybe they wanted to rape the men not because of homosexuality but because it shows their superiority. That is understood by historians to be a very common practice in those times.

There are also many scholars who seem to think that the original writings didn't imply rape at all- or any other kind of sexual act.

God never said anything about homosexuality in the story of Sodom. Not once.

The only reason we have to believe it had anything to do with homosexuality is one story- the context of which is not fully understood and the words used have possibly been mistranslated.

In case you didn't get the memo, when a man has sex with another man, that is an act of homosexuality, regardless of the reasoning behind it.

 

[SuddenlyISee]

In case you didn't get the memo, when a man has sex with another man, that is an act of homosexuality, regardless of the reasoning behind it.

LOL. True. But, perhaps the issue was the rape and not the homosexuality? Is there not room in this story for that to be possible?

 

[SoldierKG]

How do you reconcile these views with the content and message of Matthew 5:28

[bible]
but I say unto you, that every one that looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
[/bible]

If we do something with our heart and mind, to God, it's the same as doing it physically, yes?



How do you define sodomite? Sodomite typically refers to someone who engages in certain physical acts of a homosexual nature, doesnt' it?



Are you honestly contesting that God makes these people suffer their entire lives with desires that He will punish them for acting upon? How well does that coincide with the rest of the bible?
1 Corinthians 10:13
[bible]
There hath no temptation taken you but such as man can bear: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation make also the way of escape, that ye may be able to endure it.
[/bible]


I will accept that some people ARE tempted by the act and lifestyle more, yes, but I still don't understand how the "no choice" mindset reconciles with scripture...

When your attracted to a woman are you lusting her? Or are you just attracted? Can't the same go for a homosexual? I am not saying that God causes it. God does not make someone a homosexual. God creates the life, but the product of man and woman (child) is sinful. Not because God made it that way, because it was inherited from it's parents.

 

[ScottBot]

LOL. True. But, perhaps the issue was the rape and not the homosexuality? Is there not room in this story for that to be possible?

The problem is that the men were OFFERED girls by Lot, his own virgin daughters, and the men did not want them, they wanted the men who were visiting Lot.

 

[SuddenlyISee]

The problem is that the men were OFFERED girls by Lot, his own virgin daughters, and the men did not want them, they wanted the men who were visiting Lot.

Which scholars believe is because they wanted to show superiority over the outsiders which would specifically negate their desire to rape Lots daughters.

Still others say that they didn't want to have any kind of sexual anything with them based on the original text.

The only thing whe know for sure is that God has two chances to say it is because every single man in the entire city, save Lot, was gay but it is never said. Why? Why would God dance around it if the reason was that simple? Could you make the slightest bit of room for the possibility that God didn't say that was why because it wasn't why? Probably not- but I wouldn't expect you to make such a concession anyway.

The reasoning is specifically mentioned by God twice but homosexuality is not mentioned by God once. That is all I am saying.

 

[yodafett]

Roman's 1:27

and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working unseemliness, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due.

I don't speek ancient greek first hand, but according to Strong's, greek words used for "men" through the whole verse are

αρρσην and αρσην
male (as stronger for lifting): - male, man.

and the word used for lust was
orexis
excitement of the mind, that is, longing after: - lust.

And the word for another
ἀλλήλων
one another. : - each other, mutual, one another, (the other), (them-, your-) selves, (selves) together

Males longing after other males. How can that be misunderstood?

 

[SoldierKG]

A sodomite is commonyly defined as one who commences in unnacceptable sexual behavior.. God destroyed Sodom for their sexual sin. Their sins of deciet. Look at Las Vegas and it's like looking Sodom in the face. My point is, contrary to what many believe, Homosexuals are not sinners for being homosexual. Only if they commit an act of sodomy, are they guilty of the sin mentioned in the Bible. Many homosexuals are turned off to Christ because people are hateful. I know many a person dealing with homosexuality and they DO NOT WANT to be that way, however if your attracted to something than you just are. These people know however that they must not indulge their feelings, no matter how painful. What they need is support, and who better to give it to them then Christians.We are the body of christ, and Christ is loving. If we know a gay person we should not be afraid or be mean or condemn, we should embrace them with open arms, and let them know that we love them. If Christ is love, and we represent Christ and we condemn them while representing Christ, than to them it is the same as christ condeming them. We are giving Christ a bad image, and I say no more shall we do this. We are to loveour neighbor whether he likes men or women. Just because cause we love them does not mean we support their imperfections, we help them to overcome their imperfections.

"Lord Lord we wish to be like you, and to know you, and seek your power."

"Do you love me?"

"Yes Lord we love you."

"are you sure you love me?"

"Of course Lord we would follow you to the grave. We love you so much."

"If you love me, than prove it."

God wants us to love others so let's do it. If everyone who read/posted in this thread showed the love of Christ in their commmunity and their community showed the love to their cities, we could have a Christ centered world of love within months. Bad things happen when Good men stay silent.

 

[SuddenlyISee]

Roman's 10:27


I don't speek ancient greek first hand, but according to Strong's, greek words used for "men" through the whole verse are

αρρσην and αρσην
male (as stronger for lifting): - male, man.

and the word used for lust was
orexis
excitement of the mind, that is, longing after: - lust.

And the word for another
ἀλλήλων
one another. : - each other, mutual, one another, (the other), (them-, your-) selves, (selves) together

Males longing after other males. How can that be misunderstood?

Romans chapter 10 ends after verse 21.

Putting that to the side, though, I don't see how that can be mistranslated. I am only speaking on S&G. If you are talking about the law, that is another conversation. Before I could embark on that conversation, I would need to be able to look up the verse in question.

 

[SuddenlyISee]

A sodomite is commonyly defined as one who commences in unnacceptable sexual behavior.. God destroyed Sodom for their sexual sin. Their sins of deciet. Look at Las Vegas and it's like looking Sodom in the face. My point is, contrary to what many believe, Homosexuals are not sinners for being homosexual. Only if they commit an act of sodomy, are they guilty of the sin mentioned in the Bible. Many homosexuals are turned off to Christ because people are hateful. I know many a person dealing with homosexuality and they DO NOT WANT to be that way, however if your attracted to something than you just are. These people know however that they must not indulge their feelings, no matter how painful. What they need is support, and who better to give it to them then Christians.We are the body of christ, and Christ is loving. If we know a gay person we should not be afraid or be mean or condemn, we should embrace them with open arms, and let them know that we love them. If Christ is love, and we represent Christ and we condemn them while representing Christ, than to them it is the same as christ condeming them. We are giving Christ a bad image, and I say no more shall we do this. We are to loveour neighbor whether he likes men or women. Just because cause we love them does not mean we support their imperfections, we help them to overcome their imperfections.

"Lord Lord we wish to be like you, and to know you, and seek your power."

"Do you love me?"

"Yes Lord we love you."

"are you sure you love me?"

"Of course Lord we would follow you to the grave. We love you so much."

"If you love me, than prove it."

God wants us to love others so let's do it. If everyone who read/posted in this thread showed the love of Christ in their commmunity and their community showed the love to their cities, we could have a Christ centered world of love within months. Bad things happen when Good men stay silent.

Good post. One question, though... Can you please give me the verse in which God says that Sodom was destroyed because of sexual sin?

 

[yodafett]

What they need is support, and who better to give it to them then Christians.We are the body of christ, and Christ is loving. If we know a gay person we should not be afraid or be mean or condemn, we should embrace them with open arms, and let them know that we love them. If Christ is love, and we represent Christ and we condemn them while representing Christ, than to them it is the same as christ condeming them. We are giving Christ a bad image, and I say no more shall we do this. We are to loveour neighbor whether he likes men or women. Just because cause we love them does not mean we support their imperfections, we help them to overcome their imperfections.

I agree with this 100%

 

[SoldierKG]

Good post. One question, though... Can you please give me the verse in which God says that Sodom was destroyed because of sexual sin?

I dont' know where it is,I'll have found it by tomorrow though....hmmm....it's not where the origional story is...

 

[SuddenlyISee]

I dont' know where it is,I'll have found it by tomorrow though....hmmm....it's not where the origional story is...

Jude 1:7

In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

It appears to be a letter, though, and not God talking. When God spoke on Sodom, he didn't say anything about sexual perversion. There are a lot of sins the Sodomites could have been guilty of. Chances are, they were guilty of many of them. Sexual sin was added to the reason later and soon became the only reason. That seems to be mens motives, though, because when God spoke of Sodom he never said anything about sexual sin. Not that I can find anyway.

 

[bella1955]

Yoda, they do find out even 11 or younger. They only come out later as a teen. Don't you understand there has to be a third gender?

 

[FleurDeLiz]

Yoda, they do find out even 11 or younger. They only come out later as a teen. Don't you understand there has to be a third gender?

What do you mean by a "third gender"?

 

[Lilly of the Valley]

I am here now to spread the truth about homosexuality. Many people call it a choice, and many condemn gays for their feelings. The Bible is clear that acting upon homosexuality is wrong, but it does not say that simply being a homosexual is wrong. I have recently been involved with conversations with Christians concerning homosexuality and many of them were very unloving in their attitudes......I just thought I'd let people know what I do. If you know a homosexual person than be loving to that person. Chances are that they are homosexual because 1.They did not have a relationship with their father. 2. They are insecure in their sexuality and are experimenting. 3. They were raoed as a child and told it was ok or a "game." 4. They were born that way. 5. etc etc etc. There are many possible reasons for homosexuality, we as Christians have a responsibility to love not condemn, to accept not reject. We have a bad image in the world, Christ would probably be unhappy with most of us (including myself) so let's get better, let's change, let's make the world a better place showing the true love of Christ...using scripture as our foundation we cannot fail.

Having attraction toward the same gender and not acting upon it isn't necessarily wrong, but IS something that person should try to go to the Lord w/ if possible despite attraction itself not being wrong. A person that just has attractions toward the same gender but has nothing to do w/ that life isn't a homosexual...at least not in my book. A homosexual is someone that acts on those feelings, not actively resists them and such.

 

[fevoldj2]

So, a heterosexual in your book is someone who has had sex with a member of the opposite gender? Does that mean that one that has never had sex is asexual, and has no sexual orientation?

 

[savedfromdistruction]

There is no such thing as being a homodexual that does not practice the sin. All homosexuals are in sin. it is possible to stop being one and that is by repentance towards God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Once that happens the person is no loner a homosexual.
1 Corinthians 6:11

All homosexuality is sin according to the bible. The term gay is a non term. Biblical anyone who is into homosexuality is in sin and scripture teaches that no one in sin will go to heaven.

Being a homosexual is not a sin, participating in homosexual acts is...the Bible there is not saying what causes it if you know the origional texts and read closely you will see that they already had the desire when God gave them over to it. The word used in the origional text means sodomite not homosexual. It is wrong to think God condemns gays, just for being gay, he condemns only those who do gay things such as same sex relations. The penalty mentioned in leviticus is not for being gay it is for having same sex relations. there isnot scripture to support the anti-gay Christiand crowd which feels that gay people are evil, wicked, or going to hell. I Know many gay people that DO NOT WANT to be gay, how do you explain that then? if your attracted to something your attracted to it. It's notlike you decided to be that way. Did you one day decide to be straight? or were you always that way?

 

[WalkingforHim]

Sodom was destroyed because it was filled with aggressive, abusive homosexuals who preferred their distasteful sexual appetites to even a young virgin girl (Lot offered his daughters up to the men, who refused them in favor of Lot's visitors, nearly breaking down his door to get to them).

That isn't what the Bible says.

Besides, even if that were the case, then why would Lot offer his daughters, instead of himself, if it homosexual relations they wanted?

If we know a gay person we should not be afraid or be mean or condemn, we should embrace them with open arms, and let them know that we love them.

Even if they go on to embrace their homosexuality and accept it.

In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

Which could just as easily, and more likely, be rape than homosexuality.

There is no such thing as being a homodexual that does not practice the sin. All homosexuals are in sin.

This is ignorance. Homosexuality is not defined as the act of gay sex, but the existence of homoerotic sexual desires. One can be a homosexual a virgin at the same time, just as one is a hetero, but can be a virgin at the same time.

Redefining words to make your hatred more tolerable is a sure indication of such hatred.

it is possible to stop being one and that is by repentance towards God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Once that happens the person is no loner a homosexua

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

There is no such thing as being a homodexual that does not practice the sin. All homosexuals are in sin. it is possible to stop being one and that is by repentance towards God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Once that happens the person is no loner a homosexual.
1 Corinthians 6:11

All homosexuality is sin according to the bible. The term gay is a non term. Biblical anyone who is into homosexuality is in sin and scripture teaches that no one in sin will go to heaven.

According to your Thesis, one who has not engaged in heterosexual sex is not a heterosexual. Think about this reasoning. It would mean that all are asexual with lustful thoughts toward either the opposite or same sex. Look whether you like it or not, there is a segment of the population that during the onset of puberty, found out that no matter how hard they tried, they were attracted to members of the same sex. One can be in denial of this because it may threaten their world view. But the reality "Is what it is" One who is gay, did not make a abitrary decision that they where going to become attracted to same sex. It is usually a long process of struggle, denial and sometimes acceptance. I would suggest that until you walk in anothers shoes, you should refrain from making kneejerk pronouncements in regards to "who" they are.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

And yes Rape by act of sodomy has always been used as a sign of dominace. Look at Prison for example. Sodomy is often used to show dominance by by forcefully raping those that they deem are weaker then they, or percieved to be outsiders.