homosexuality

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by kod
I think, Louis, that even in your opinion, being a homosexual is not a sin, rather it is homosexual behaviour.

I have never denied that the Bible condemns homosexual behaviour, but the relevant passages do so in a context of promiscuity, prostitution, pedophilia or pagan worship.

 

 

So its ok to be gay, just as long as you don't have sex??

I don't understand what that means.
What is the gay lifestyle, that you like so much?

 

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by kod
Ahh ... the old "unnatural" argument.

Is it natural for humans to fly?

Do same sex relationships occur in nature, eg among animals?

Would it be "natural" for a man with a homosexual orientation to have sex with a woman?

"ahh...the old"

Ahhh the old type of debateing through manipulation trick.

 

[kod]

Originally posted by SUNSTONE
So its ok to be gay, just as long as you don't have sex??
I don't understand what that means.

What is the gay lifestyle, that you like so much?

 

To answer the first question first:  there are many people who have a homosexual orientation who lead celibate lives.  Most Christians who "treat" homosexuals  do not condemn these people as sinners.

Second question:  I am sorry but I do not know what a "gay lifestyle" is.   I have come across as much variety and diversity of lifestyle among homosexual people as there is among heterosexual people. - some happy, some unhappy; some celibate, some monogamous, some promiscuous; some are believers and some are not. 

I am not aware of saying that I like or dislike homosexuality.  I just try to be non judemental, and have an open mind on God's Word. I don't think I have even claimed that my point of view is the only right one ... unlike some other posters 

 

[kod]

Originally posted by SUNSTONE
Are you saying that war is sin?

A time of war and a time of peace ecc 3.

 

Are you suggesting that we should use the Old Testament as a guide to making war?

"Then they (Israel) utterly destroyed all in the city, both men and women, young and old ..."  Joshua 6

This is yet another example that Jesus Christ taught a new way.  (And you know what, HE never condemned homosexuals.)

Funny how some Christians think that two men making love is worse than two men trying to kill each other. 

 

[seebs]

Originally posted by SUNSTONE
So its ok to be gay, just as long as you don't have sex??

That's certainly the current Catholic teaching, as I understand it.

I don't understand what that means.
What is the gay lifestyle, that you like so much?

I don't think kod is arguing for any particular lifestyle. I think, rather, that the argument is that there is no such thing as the "gay lifestyle" any more than there's a "straight lifestyle", and that all such generalizations are worthless.

Imagine, if you will, a priest, who is celibate. Does that mean he's "not heterosexual"? Not particularly. Does the fact that he's still heterosexual mean he's breaking his vows? Obviously not.

So, why would it be any different if he were gay? If the vow is to not have sex, he's doing just fine.

So... if this gay guy, feeling that he's called to celibacy, becomes a priest and devotes his life to God, are you saying his lifestyle is bad?

 

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by kod
 

To answer the first question first:  there are many people who have a homosexual orientation who lead celibate lives.  Most Christians who "treat" homosexuals  do not condemn these people as sinners.

Second question:  I am sorry but I do not know what a "gay lifestyle" is.   I have come across as much variety and diversity of lifestyle among homosexual people as there is among heterosexual people. - some happy, some unhappy; some celibate, some monogamous, some promiscuous; some are believers and some are not. 

I am not aware of saying that I like or dislike homosexuality.  I just try to be non judemental, and have an open mind on God's Word. I don't think I have even claimed that my point of view is the only right one ... unlike some other posters 

Ok you have come across alot of different lifestyles, now what is a gay lifestyle?

What is being gay? Is it not the attraction of the same sex?

I believe that there are people who "think" that they are gay.
Then there are those that have feelings for this lifestyle but know that it is wrong. People just don't come out of the womb gay, no more than people who come out of the womb a serial killer or thief. They slowly become that way. I know how the devil works, he has tried that trick on me, but I told him, there is no way I am going to find love in another mans hairy a$#.
I believe that everyone should get married, either man and wife, or human and God. If you don't marry the opposite sex, then marry God.
God said, it is not good for man to be alone.

I would be friends with someone who struggles in this area, so much as they beleived it was wrong. If they were in my prayer group, I would like to hear some confessions, and prayers to get them back into what God has for them. God's way is the best way, even if your feelings don't agree at the time. Give God the opertunity to change you from the inside out on any sin, not just the gay lifestyle.

 

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by kod
 

Are you suggesting that we should use the Old Testament as a guide to making war?

"Then they (Israel) utterly destroyed all in the city, both men and women, young and old ..."  Joshua 6

This is yet another example that Jesus Christ taught a new way.  (And you know what, HE never condemned homosexuals.)

Funny how some Christians think that two men making love is worse than two men trying to kill each other. 

God told them to make war. If he told me to make war, then I would listen.
When 9/11 happened, guess what, its time for war!

What is Jesus known as? The word of God.
What is the bible known as? The word of God.

Two men making lust is sin, me killing someone in war is not a sin, if the war is justified like 9/11 or WW2. Everyone dies, sometimes people choose there way to die, like the 9/11 terrorism attacks. Those guys choose there fate when they did that.

Kod, God wanted me to ask you something.
Why are you a Christian?
Why do you believe that there is a God?

 

[LouisBooth]

"Ahh ... the old "unnatural" argument.

Is it natural for humans to fly? "

*chuckles* nope its not natural for humans to fly, so when you can fly UNDER YOUR OWN POWER, let me know.

 

[ServantOfTheLord]

Sin is sin. The Bible very clearly states in Leviticus and in Romans that homosexuality is a sin against God. But, so is stealing, lying and murdering.

The difference is that there are no big groups of people lobbying to make stealing, lying, murdering, etc. legal and acceptable.

Unfortunately, due to the fervor of many gay rights groups/activists we in the body of Christ become outraged and retaliate with hatred instead of the love that Christ intended. Remember, we must hate the sin and love the sinner.

Now, I do believe that if you truly surrender your heart to the Lord Jesus, through the process of sanctification, He can and will remove the homosexual thoughts from you. Until you reach that point though it is advisable to abstain from homosexual behavior just as it is advisable for me as a single heterosexual woman to abstain from sex with a man until I am married.

Leviticus 18:22 " `Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable." ~ NIV

Romans 1:26 "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion." ~ NIV

Also, to those who say they are genetically predisposed to being homosexual, that they were born that way and cannot help it ... that is a lie. My God would not make people homosexual when He clearly states what an abomination it is. That is like me saying that He created me to be permiscuous(?) so it's not my fault if I have sex with a man before I get married. That whole line of thought is a cop out. But, unfortunately that is the way this society is going. No one wants to take responsibility for their own actions. It's always soemone elses fault. Homosexuality, just like any other sin, is a choice.

Sexual perversion and immorality is a tool that satan uses against the world. It is dececrating the beautiful blood covenant that God created for husband and wife to share. Any sex outside of a marriage between a man and woman is sinful and shameful.

But remember ... through the blood of Christ all things can be cleansed! Praise Him for that!

In His Service,

Sandy

 

[Knight]

Not to agree with the genetic predisposition argument. (I can't logicaly discount it but it has not yet been proven.)

If homosexuality is proven to be at least partly genetic nothing will be proven by that. The homosexual lifestyle will still be sin. There are those who are predisposed to alcoholism. Are these people exempt because of their predisposition? Is drunkenness still a sin for them? No and Yes.

If one takes this to its logical conclusion then all of humanity is genetically predisposed to sin because of the fall. This changes nothing. We still need to repent and turn to Christ.

It is still a choice to practice a homosexual lifestyle regardless of any predisposition.

 

[EJO]

"Also, to those who say they are genetically predisposed to being homosexual, that they were born that way and cannot help it ... that is a lie. My God would not make people homosexual when He clearly states what an abomination it is. That is like me saying that He created me to be permiscuous(?) so it's not my fault if I have sex with a man before I get married. That whole line of thought is a cop out. But, unfortunately that is the way this society is going. No one wants to take responsibility for their own actions. It's always soemone elses fault. Homosexuality, just like any other sin, is a choice."

AMEN!! Servant of the Lord!
I have a close fiend who lived the gay "lifestyle" (define however you want to) for 11 years. That was a long time ago, NOW- he worshipd Jesus and follows God. He is married, for like 10 years now. He has three sons. They serve in the church.
Jesus redeems us back to a right relationship with God. Read the first chapter of Ephesians.
God see's all sins the same; murder, stealing, lust, lies, gossip. but He has also wwashed them away with His sons blood, for all those who believe in Him, and SUBMIT to His authority, in our daily life.
Sure you will stumble at times, like Peter walking on the water... but keep your self focused on Jesus. He will give us all mercy and grace.

God Bless!

 

[kod]

For any homosexuals who feel the need to make changes in their lives, I suggest you go to
www.ewm.org
It is one of the more understanding programs of change I've encountered.
It begins with two ideas
1. homosexual orientation is not a choice
2. homosexual orientation is not a sin

I believe that change is possible for some people, and for those unhappy with their life, it is worth a try.

 

[LouisBooth]

KOD, you're wrong, homosexuality is a sin, it is a choice. It is now and always will be just like any other sin. You can try and rationalize truth away all you want. the bible says its a sin, pure and simple.

 

[kod]

Originally posted by LouisBooth
KOD, you're wrong, homosexuality is a sin, it is a choice. It is now and always will be just like any other sin. You can try and rationalize truth away all you want. the bible says its a sin, pure and simple.

I really don't think you read my last post, Louis.

Fortunately some Bible based Christian groups manage to avoid harsh judgemental attitudes even though they do not agree with homosexual behaviour.

www.ewm.org
"Eagles' Wings Ministry believes that there is a difference between a homosexual orientation, which is not chosen, and homosexual behavior, which is chosen. The Bible does not condemn a person for having a homosexual orientation, it speaks only about homosexual behavior. With this in mind, Eagles' Wings provides information and support to anyone who desires freedom from their homosexual orientation and behavior."  

http://theparson.net/gays.html
"Our practical advice for the gay Christian is change your orientation if you can. If not, be celibate if you can. If not, be as moral (i.e. monogamous) as you can." 

(David Hess, Pastor, West Henrietta Baptist Church)
      

      

      

   



 

 

[kod]

Originally posted by LouisBooth
its a sin, pure and simple.

I'm not sure a sin can be "pure and simple"?

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by kod
For any homosexuals who feel the need to make changes in their lives, I suggest you go to
www.ewm.org
It is one of the more understanding programs of change I've encountered.
It begins with two ideas
1. homosexual orientation is not a choice
2. homosexual orientation is not a sin

I believe that change is possible for some people, and for those unhappy with their life, it is worth a try.

True, it isn't a choice. The act of gay sex is the sin, not the natural attraction that some people feel.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

My God would not make people homosexual when He clearly states what an abomination it is.

Then why would God make us with the tendency to sin in any way? This makes no sense.

 

[Chloe]

Originally posted by ServantOfTheLord
Sin is sin. The Bible very clearly states in Leviticus and in Romans that homosexuality is a sin against God. But, so is stealing, lying and murdering.

The difference is that there are no big groups of people lobbying to make stealing, lying, murdering, etc. legal and acceptable.

Unfortunately, due to the fervor of many gay rights groups/activists we in the body of Christ become outraged and retaliate with hatred instead of the love that Christ intended. Remember, we must hate the sin and love the sinner.

Now, I do believe that if you truly surrender your heart to the Lord Jesus, through the process of sanctification, He can and will remove the homosexual thoughts from you. Until you reach that point though it is advisable to abstain from homosexual behavior just as it is advisable for me as a single heterosexual woman to abstain from sex with a man until I am married.

Leviticus 18:22 " `Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable." ~ NIV

Romans 1:26 "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion." ~ NIV

Also, to those who say they are genetically predisposed to being homosexual, that they were born that way and cannot help it ... that is a lie. My God would not make people homosexual when He clearly states what an abomination it is. That is like me saying that He created me to be permiscuous(?) so it's not my fault if I have sex with a man before I get married. That whole line of thought is a cop out. But, unfortunately that is the way this society is going. No one wants to take responsibility for their own actions. It's always soemone elses fault. Homosexuality, just like any other sin, is a choice.

Sexual perversion and immorality is a tool that satan uses against the world. It is dececrating the beautiful blood covenant that God created for husband and wife to share. Any sex outside of a marriage between a man and woman is sinful and shameful.

But remember ... through the blood of Christ all things can be cleansed! Praise Him for that!

In His Service,

Sandy

 

Amen!

If God says something is sin, an abomination, why do some insist on saying that it is not or deny that it applies today? 

 

[LouisBooth]

"Fortunately some Bible based Christian groups manage to avoid harsh judgemental attitudes even though they do not agree with homosexual behaviour. "

As for the second site, they are saying 1. its a choice and 2. you shouldn't do it beause its a sin.

As for your post, I read it very carefully thanks, but that doesn't change that face that homosexuality is a sin, and its a choice.



"Then why would God make us with the tendency to sin in any way? This makes no sense."

SoulJ, it makes perfect sence. God DOESN'T make people gay or have gay tendencies. They choose to be that way, just as you choose to get drunk or you choose to have premarital sex. Its sin and its a choice.

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"Fortunately some Bible based Christian groups manage to avoid harsh judgemental attitudes even though they do not agree with homosexual behaviour. "

As for the second site, they are saying 1. its a choice and 2. you shouldn't do it beause its a sin.

As for your post, I read it very carefully thanks, but that doesn't change that face that homosexuality is a sin, and its a choice.



"Then why would God make us with the tendency to sin in any way? This makes no sense."

SoulJ, it makes perfect sence. God DOESN'T make people gay or have gay tendencies. They choose to be that way, just as you choose to get drunk or you choose to have premarital sex. Its sin and its a choice.

Homosexuality - the attraction to people of the same sex. -- Not a choice.

Homosexual acts -- A choice.

I can't understand why you have such trouble understanding this, unless you are consciously preventing yourself from understanding.