-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Homosexuality: Right or Wrong? (read pg1)
- Thread starter JayJay77
- Start date
- Status
EnemyPartyII
Well-Known Member
no, because we are released from those laws under the new covenant.Dear Ohioprof,
Yes He does.
Upvote
0
P
Phinehas2
Guest
Dear EnenyPartyII
So if you we arent under the OT law then we must be able to do incest and bestiality, steal, lie and covet?
Yes?
So if you we arent under the OT law then we must be able to do incest and bestiality, steal, lie and covet?
Yes?
Upvote
0
Obviously, good Christians disagree on this question. At some point, the debate over whether "homosexuality" is a "sin" becomes pointless, as some Christians say yes, and some Christians say no.
The more important question, I think, is how Christians are to treat gay people. I will argue that whether you believe being gay to be a sin or not, or whether you believe same-sex marriages to be sin or not, all Christians should treat gay people with respect and should accept gay people as we are. No Christian should denigrate gay people, and no Christian should work to deny gay people equal treatment under the law. In my view, Christians should also welcome gay people into our churches as we are and should not tell gay people we are going to hell for being gay, or try to change gay people magically into heterosexuals. or demand that gay people be celibate. It's time for all Christians to accept gay people as we are and move on to address the significant moral issues of our time, which include poverty, war, the death penalty, the environment, the mistreatment of laborers around the world, and other significant social issues. Trying to get gay people to stop being gay is futile and harmful to people, and it's also a waste of our precious time on this earth. We are better off doing good in the world.
The more important question, I think, is how Christians are to treat gay people. I will argue that whether you believe being gay to be a sin or not, or whether you believe same-sex marriages to be sin or not, all Christians should treat gay people with respect and should accept gay people as we are. No Christian should denigrate gay people, and no Christian should work to deny gay people equal treatment under the law. In my view, Christians should also welcome gay people into our churches as we are and should not tell gay people we are going to hell for being gay, or try to change gay people magically into heterosexuals. or demand that gay people be celibate. It's time for all Christians to accept gay people as we are and move on to address the significant moral issues of our time, which include poverty, war, the death penalty, the environment, the mistreatment of laborers around the world, and other significant social issues. Trying to get gay people to stop being gay is futile and harmful to people, and it's also a waste of our precious time on this earth. We are better off doing good in the world.
Upvote
0
Btw, thanks to everyone who sent me birthday greetings yesterday. I had a great birthday, capped off by a wonderful dinner party with 16 of my dear friends.
Upvote
0
EnemyPartyII
Well-Known Member
no, because THOSE would go against the "love each other as I have loved you" bit of the NEW law...
See? thats how it works, under the NEW covenant, we have to love and respect each other, and do things that won't harm other people... under the OLD covenant, we follow a strict list of irrelevant, archaic legalist dogma without any sort of personal interpretation or accounting of circumstance
Upvote
0
P
Phinehas2
Guest
Dear Ohioprof,
Secondly Christian churches do welcome gay people and its God who says same-sex sex is a sin, the church is merely the body of believers and followers of Jesus Christ according to His Biblical testimony.
No obviously not, I totally disagree with you.
No I disagree as I believe Christians believe the Bible is God’s word and condemns same-sex sex. I have demonstrated that so I think you are making a false assumption.
Yes but the most important thing for Christians is how they treat God, if they love God they will treat all people properly.
No I am not bothered about whether being gay is a sin or not, I have shown that God’s word reveals same-sex practice is a sin.
Firstly one can’t make Jesus Christ Lord by demanding He changes for us, no, to follow Jesus Christ is to obey Him not He to obey us.
Secondly Christian churches do welcome gay people and its God who says same-sex sex is a sin, the church is merely the body of believers and followers of Jesus Christ according to His Biblical testimony.
No, helping the poor, the needy and the persecuted is just what disciples do because they are following Jesus, the significant issues is to tell of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Depends what you mean by ‘being gay’
Upvote
0
EnemyPartyII
Well-Known Member
Only under the Old Covenant, which, as Christians, we are no longer bound by
Uhoh... I can sense aword redefinition coming on...
Upvote
0
I have not demanded that Jesus change. I don't have to. Jesus never said anything about same-sex relationships. It's not Jesus who condemns gay people or our love relationships. It is some Christians who do so, primarily out of the anti-gay prejudice they have been taught as children, I think.
I am a good Christian. You are a good Christian. We disagree on this issue, as we disagree on other issues. Ultimately, we have to agree to disagree.
Upvote
0
P
Phinehas2
Guest
Dear EnemyPartyII
But you wanted a judgement on the OT law, yet you now find the response irrelevant.
Love your neighbour as yourself is OT Lev 19, its also NT covenant, so is the prohibition against sex outside marriage including same-sex sex.
So is same-sex sex, see Matt 19, Mark 10, Eph 5, 1 Cor 6, 1 Tim 1, 2 Peter 2 and Jude 1 against the new covenant.
But you wanted a judgement on the OT law, yet you now find the response irrelevant.
Love your neighbour as yourself is OT Lev 19, its also NT covenant, so is the prohibition against sex outside marriage including same-sex sex.
No under the New Covenant we obey and follow Jesus Christ and love as He loved, if we obey Him and His teaching we love Him and the Father. Your viewpoint doesn’t work as because it depends what you mean by ‘harm others’ If one tells people they can indulge in same-sex sex and that becomes the barrier Jesus NT teaching describes and they end up in hell, that sounds like harm to me. Your idea of harm is different from mine just as your idea of love is, yours is centred on what people feel, mine is centred on Jesus Christ.
Upvote
0
P
Phinehas2
Guest
Dear EnemyPartyII
where does it say same-sex sex is a sin under the Old Covenant?
It depends on what you mean by ‘being gay’
Upvote
0
P
Phinehas2
Guest
Dear Ohioprof,
Who said one doesn’t have to?
Yes He did.
No its Jesus who teaches God’s purpose is man and woman or celibacy and sex outside marriage is error, not Christians.
Thank you but no I don’t think so, I fall short, it is Jesus Christ who is my righteousness. ..I don’t judge people please do not make personal remarks.
Upvote
0
EnemyPartyII
Well-Known Member
Um, thats either a deliberate lie, or a betrayal of really poor Bible study... Jesus never mentions same sex relationships.
Upvote
0
David Brider
Well-Known Member
- Aug 18, 2004
- 6,513
- 700
- Country
- United Kingdom
- Faith
- Methodist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- UK-Greens
Not all Christians believe that the Bible is God's word (as I've pointed out time and again, the belief that the Bible is God's word is in itself a totally unBiblical claim).
And not all Christians believe that the Bible condemns same-sex sex. The strongest case you've got is that it might condemn male-male sex, but that really rests on a couple of verses in Leviticus which are (in translation) given an incredibly peculiar rendering which distinguishes them from the previous condemnations of various types of sexual practice ("do no lie with" instead of "do not have sexual relations with"), and which according to one commentator on here may well refer to some form of non-consensual sex (i.e. rape) rather than consensual sex.
David.
Upvote
0
P
Phinehas2
Guest
Dear David Brider,
Can I suggest we agree to differ and if you and some others cease making the claim that not all Christians do this and that, then others of us wont need to make the counter claim
On the contrary as I have pointed out time and time again believing the Bible is God’s word is one of those things that makes a Christian,… and I have demonstrated from the major Christian churches and denominations statements of faith why this is so.
Can I suggest we agree to differ and if you and some others cease making the claim that not all Christians do this and that, then others of us wont need to make the counter claim
Upvote
0
David Brider
Well-Known Member
- Aug 18, 2004
- 6,513
- 700
- Country
- United Kingdom
- Faith
- Methodist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- UK-Greens
But the fact that there are Christians who don't believe that the Bible is God's word demonstrates that you're wrong to keep claiming that "Christians believe the Bible is God's word". And as for your assertion that "believing the Bible is Gods word is one of those things that makes a Christian", no, sorry - that's wrong.
I'd love to agree to differ - if you'd stop bringing up the claim in the first place, and stop constantly using the phrase "God's word" as if it's interchangable with the word "Bible" - "God's word says this," "God's word says that," or the emotionally loaded: "if you disagree with us, you disagree with God's word".
How about, if you want to refer to the Bible, you just call it the Bible?
David.
Upvote
0
David Brider
Well-Known Member
- Aug 18, 2004
- 6,513
- 700
- Country
- United Kingdom
- Faith
- Methodist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- UK-Greens
Genesis: Unknown author, reputed to be Moses.
Matthew 19: Says nothing about same-sex relationships; refers to opposite-sex relationships, but not in any way that suggests that anything is wrong with same-sex relationships.
Mark 10: Parallel passage to Matthew 19
Ephesians 5: Written by Paul.
1 Corinthians 7: Written by Paul.
1 Timothy 1: Written by Paul
Romans 1: Written by Paul
2 Peter 2: Written by Peter.
Jude 1: Says nothing about same-sex relationships, but is written by Jude anyway.
Your assertion that Jesus had anything to say about same-sex relationships is looking really rather shaky...
David.
Upvote
0
- Status
