Homosexuality: Right or Wrong? (read pg1)

[Markus6]

Genesis: Unknown author, reputed to be Moses.
Matthew 19: Says nothing about same-sex relationships; refers to opposite-sex relationships, but not in any way that suggests that anything is wrong with same-sex relationships.
Mark 10: Parallel passage to Matthew 19
Ephesians 5: Written by Paul.
1 Corinthians 7: Written by Paul.
1 Timothy 1: Written by Paul
Romans 1: Written by Paul
2 Peter 2: Written by Peter.
Jude 1: Says nothing about same-sex relationships, but is written by Jude anyway.

Your assertion that Jesus had anything to say about same-sex relationships is looking really rather shaky...

David.

Except all Christians believe the Bible is God's word and Jesus is God, therefore the whole of the bible is Jesus' word so you either agree with him or you're not a Christian .

 

[ChaliceThunder]

All the Law and the prophets hang on agape for God and others.

Agape does not judge.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear David Brider,
I believe the scriptures cited, if you have such doubts about them on what can you base good Bible study? Or is good Bible study for you what I call rank disbelief?

Matthew 19 and Mark 10, says nothing about same-sex relationships;

says a good deal about same-sex relationships, in short if God’s purpose is man and woman or celibacy that’s same-sex right out of the question. Contrast that with no countenance at all for same-sex unions.

Ephesians 5: Written by Paul.

1 Corinthians 7: Written by Paul.
1 Timothy 1: Written by Paul
Romans 1: Written by Paul
2 Peter 2: Written by Peter.

Written by Paul who is endorsed by the others and whose revelation came form the risen Lord. Don’t you believe anything Paul wrote? Love is patient love is kind? That comes from God.

Jude 1: Says nothing about same-sex relationships, but is written by Jude anyway.

Course it does.

Your assertion that Jesus had anything to say about same-sex relationships is looking really rather shaky...

its looking watertight whereas yours looks missing.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear ChaliceThunder,
God is agape love and Jesus will judge, its something a number of the NT writers have recorded of Jesus testimony. We judge what is right in Christ, not others, judgement of others is something we are accused of when we judge God to be right.

 

[David Brider]

Dear David Brider,
I believe the scriptures cited...

As do I.

...if you have such doubts about them on what can you base good Bible study? Or is good Bible study for you what I call rank disbelief?

I don't have doubts about the Scriptures cited; merely about your assertions that a.) they have anything to say about what Jesus said (except in two instances, they don't), and that b.) they refer to same-sex relationships (they don't).

says a good deal about same-sex relationships, in short if God’s purpose is man and woman or celibacy that’s same-sex right out of the question.

Except that nowhere do the passages you cited make anything like that claim. Sure, they refer to opposite-sex relationships, but not in any way that limits marriage just to opposite-sex relationships.

Written by Paul who is endorsed by the others and whose revelation came form the risen Lord. Don’t you believe anything Paul wrote?

I believe what he wrote, sure - where on earth do you get the idea that I don't? What I'm refuting is your claim that "Jesus affirms God’s creation purpose as man and woman...and celibacy as the alternative...and same-sex sex specifically as error" in these passages, when he quite clearly doesn't, given that they were written by Paul, not Jesus.

David.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear David Brider,

As do

I.

really? I thought you said you didn’t think Jesus NT teaching condemned same-sex sex. What relevance therefore have the authors got to do with the passages cited… you mentioned the authors, why?

I don't have doubts about the Scriptures cited; merely about your assertions that a.) they have anything to say about what Jesus said (except in two instances, they don't), and that b.) they refer to same-sex relationships (they don't).

Sorry but even if you believe the scriptures do say what they say in two circumstances, then I am right. My question to you si what do you believe Jesus said to countenance same-sex sex.

Except that nowhere do the passages you cited make anything like that claim.

So they don’t say what they say? Sorry David but Genesis 2 and Matt 19, Mark 10, Eph 5 says exactly what I have said and cited.
Sorry but this is too dysfunctional. When you wrote ‘do the passages you cited make anything like that claim’. Did you mean ‘do the passages you cited make anything like that claim.’ Or ‘the big red bus went up the hill’ ?

Sure, they refer to opposite-sex relationships, but not in any way that limits marriage just to opposite-sex relationships.

No they refer to an opposite sex relationship, not relationships.

I believe what he wrote, sure - where on earth do you get the idea that I don't?

Oh it’s a common liberal statement, and one I notice Islam uses a lot too.

What I'm refuting is your claim that "Jesus affirms God’s creation purpose as man and woman...and celibacy as the alternative...and same-sex sex specifically as error" in these passages, when he quite clearly doesn't, given that they were written by Paul, not Jesus.

Ah but you see its isnt my claim, its Jesus Christ’s claim, all I have done is quote His words from the Bible to you. Its Jesus Christ whom you are refuting.

 

[David Brider]

I thought you said you didn’t think Jesus NT teaching condemned same-sex sex. What relevance therefore have the authors got to do with the passages cited… you mentioned the authors, why?

To demonstrate that except in two instances, the teachings weren't Jesus'.

I'll show you again.

Here's what you originally posted:

On the contrary it’s a deliberate truth on account of really good Bible Study. Here are the facts again.. Jesus affirms God’s creation purpose as man and woman Genesis 2, Matt 19, Mark 10, Eph 5, and celibacy as the alternative 1 Cor 7, Matt19, and same-sex sex specifically as error, 1 Cor 6, 1 Tim 1, Rom 1, 2 Peter 2, Jude 1.

So let's look at those chapters again:

Genesis 2: Moses' (probably) words, not Jesus'.
Matthew 19: Jesus' words.
Mark 10: Jesus' words.
Ephesians 5: Paul's words, not Jesus'.
1 Corinthians 6 & 7: Paul's words, not Jesus'.
1 Timothy 1: Paul's words, not Jesus'
Romans 1: Paul's words, not Jesus'
2 Peter 2: Peter's words, not Jesus'
Jude 1: Jude's words, not Jesus.

So like I said - except in two instances, what you're offering are not Jesus' words, but the words of other people.

Sorry but even if you believe the scriptures do say what they say in two circumstances, then I am right. My question to you is what do you believe Jesus said to countenance same-sex sex.

He never mentioned same-sex sex, either to countenance or condemn it.

So they don’t say what they say? Sorry David but Genesis 2 and Matt 19, Mark 10, Eph 5 says exactly what I have said and cited.

No. According to you, in those verses "Jesus affirms God’s creation purpose as man and woman." Except that Jesus had nothing to do with Genesis 2 (written over a thousand years before He was born) or Ephesians 5 (written by Paul), and in Matthew 19 and Mark 10, Jesus mentions same-sex relationships, but doesn't say anything to suggest that same-sex relationships God's only purpose.

David.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear David Brider,
Originally Posted by Phinehas2
I thought you said you didn’t think Jesus NT teaching condemned same-sex sex. What relevance therefore have the authors got to do with the passages cited… you mentioned the authors, why?

To demonstrate that except in two instances, the teachings weren't Jesus'.

None of the passages cited were written by Jesus. Jesus didn’t write any of the New Testament. That’s why I pointed it out to you. I think you need to understand that Matthew may not have encountered the risen Lord by Paul did.

now…you still haven’t provided any passages which countenance same-sex sex yet you are still doubting and disbelieving the ones that condemn same-sex sex.

So let's look at those chapters again:

Genesis 2: Moses' (probably) words, not Jesus'.

Firstly ypou wouldn’t know about Jesus if it wasn’t for the Bible writers. Jesus says He is one with the Father and before Abraham was He says I AM. John also testifies these words of Jesus he heard in John 1

Matthew 19: Jesus' words.

Jesus words and teaching through Matthew

Mark 10: Jesus' words.

Jesus words and teaching through Mark and probably Peter.

Ephesians 5: Paul's words, not Jesus'.

Jesus words and teaching through Paul

1 Corinthians 6 & 7: Paul's words, not Jesus'.

1 Timothy 1: Paul's words, not Jesus'
Romans 1: Paul's words, not Jesus'

Jesus words and teaching through Paul.

2 Peter 2: Peter's words, not Jesus'

Jesus words and teaching through Peter.

Jude 1: Jude's words, not Jesus.

Jesus words and teaching through Jude.

So like I said - except in two instances, what you're offering are not Jesus' words, but the words of other people.

On the contrary Jesus words and teaching through the Bible writers, by His Holy Spirit.

He never mentioned same-sex sex, either to countenance or condemn it.

Well yes He did but my question to you is why do you believe in same-sex sex if you don’t think Jesus ever referred to it?

No. According to you, in those verses "Jesus affirms God’s creation purpose as man and woman."

except that’s what the Bible text says, not just according to me, you may open up several Bible translations and see it says what I have quoted. I would cease trying to attribute the Bible to me.

Except that Jesus had nothing to do with Genesis 2

Wrong and irrelevant, of course He has, He said He is one with the Father and ‘I AM’

 

[walloffire]

OT law, binding on us today under the New Covenant, yes or no?

LORD JESUS answered this question:

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
Mat 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

q.e.d

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Except all Christians believe the Bible is God's word and Jesus is God, therefore the whole of the bible is Jesus' word so you either agree with him or you're not a Christian .

I assume this is intended in a sarcastic tone?

No, NOT all Christians believe that at all...

 

[EnemyPartyII]

LORD JESUS answered this question:

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
Mat 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

q.e.d

oh, OK... so Christians are to abide by the rules of the Sanhedrin today?

God. Thanks foir clearing that up.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Dear David Brider,
Originally Posted by Phinehas2
I thought you said you didn’t think Jesus NT teaching condemned same-sex sex. What relevance therefore have the authors got to do with the passages cited… you mentioned the authors, why?

None of the passages cited were written by Jesus. Jesus didn’t write any of the New Testament. That’s why I pointed it out to you. I think you need to understand that Matthew may not have encountered the risen Lord by Paul did.

now…you still haven’t provided any passages which countenance same-sex sex yet you are still doubting and disbelieving the ones that condemn same-sex sex.

Firstly ypou wouldn’t know about Jesus if it wasn’t for the Bible writers. Jesus says He is one with the Father and before Abraham was He says I AM. John also testifies these words of Jesus he heard in John 1
Jesus words and teaching through Matthew
Jesus words and teaching through Mark and probably Peter.
Jesus words and teaching through Paul
Jesus words and teaching through Paul.
Jesus words and teaching through Peter.
Jesus words and teaching through Jude.

On the contrary Jesus words and teaching through the Bible writers, by His Holy Spirit.

Well yes He did but my question to you is why do you believe in same-sex sex if you don’t think Jesus ever referred to it?

except that’s what the Bible text says, not just according to me, you may open up several Bible translations and see it says what I have quoted. I would cease trying to attribute the Bible to me.
Wrong and irrelevant, of course He has, He said He is one with the Father and ‘I AM’

who says Paul's words are those of Jesus? I don't think even Paul claimed THAT... though feel free to correct me, Chapter and verse please?

 

[ReformedChapin]

I assume this is intended in a sarcastic tone?

No, NOT all Christians believe that at all...

All orthodox christians do

btw, what you still doing here? All you do is try to force your unbiblica beliefs down peoples throat Do you actually think you are convicing christians ?

 

[tuba_peter]

Well if you really want to know. I am very against it. No matter how you look at it, it is wrong. Let me just state the obvious, and that is God originally made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. That is the way I feel.

 

[shepsgirl]

Well if you really want to know. I am very against it. No matter how you look at it, it is wrong. Let me just state the obvious, and that is God originally made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. That is the way I feel.

 

[ChaliceThunder]

All orthodox christians do

btw, what you still doing here? All you do is try to force your unbiblica beliefs down peoples throat Do you actually think you are convicing christians ?

Not all Christians are orthodox.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

All orthodox christians do

btw, what you still doing here? All you do is try to force your unbiblica beliefs down peoples throat Do you actually think you are convicing christians ?

Huh? I'M a Christian... I don't believe that the Bible is all either God's word OR inerrant... so your premis is false

 

[RMDY]

And God does not judge same-sex marriages to be sin.

This is your own speculation.

 

[RMDY]

no, I'm not arguing for the sake of it... I'm utterly confused...

how can you say in the same breath that we are freed from the law but still beholden to it???

EnemyPartyII,

I am not fully understanding the grace of God myself, but what I do know is embracing the cross is one of the things we must do and live by faith.

Sin is sin; we are freed from the old convenant and live under the new one with Jesus as our Lord and Saviour. Jesus is our Kind, our Lord, who owns us because he bought us with his precious blood. He owns us. After we accept Jesus, we do not own ourselves anymore.

"For through the Law I died to the Law, that I might live unto God. I have been crucified with Christ, and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and delivered Himself up for me." (Galatians 2:19-20).

19Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.
Now, to begin with, sin is what separated us from God in the first place.
1 Corinthians 6:19-20

 

[Floatingaxe]

Huh? I'M a Christian... I don't believe that the Bible is all either God's word OR inerrant... so your premis is false

And what YOU believe is so very far of the mark for a Christian viewpoint. Jesus never offered smorgasbord on the menu.

Your every post is full of obnoxious bombast.