Homosexuality: Right or Wrong? (read pg1)

[Jet_A_Jockey]

Well, in a world of over population, you have your answer right there

How does that explain the statement i've read in other threads that the percentage of homosexuals in the population hasn't changed over time?

 

[Floatingaxe]

To glorify God.

That's just blasphemous to suggest that animals behave in homosexual ways to glorify God--ugh. They do nothing of the kind! More hype.

 

[Floatingaxe]

God uses us through our creative genes to glorify him and to edify and challenge society to see things (including God) in a deeper way.

NOT. You cannot see God any deeper than when you are obeying His Word. He is blessed in that and reveals Himself in the praises of His people. Seeing God the way homosexual "Christians" see Him is not how He is.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Truth in a post. Let this be a lesson for those who think that one can change their sexual orientation. NOT HAPPENING!

Not happening because you don't believe that God can rescue you from your sin. You love it way too much.

He loves you and wants to freeyou from your sin, so you can have a relationship with Him. What you may think is a relationship with Jesus is not, for there is an impediment in it, a big huge block standing in your way.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear ChaliceThunder,

So glorifying God is not a good enough purpose?

It doesnt glorify God, same-sex sex dishonours God.
"For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened."- Romans.

 

[Brieuse]

How does that explain the statement i've read in other threads that the percentage of homosexuals in the population hasn't changed over time?

Not sure where those statements are.

Also not sure if the percentage of gay people have risen or not over the years, however, if the general population is growing and the percentage remains the same, maybe that's some sort of God given balance.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

Not sure where those statements are.

Also not sure if the percentage of gay people have risen or not over the years, however, if the general population is growing and the percentage remains the same, maybe that's some sort of God given balance.

I think dave made the claim that the percentage of homosexuals in the population is stable, if this is true then it rules out any evolutionary factor for homosexuality as a means of population control.


If it wasn't you dave, then I apologize bro.

 

[Remny]

While searching for reference to some of my claims I found this.
[Even though gay teens amount to less than ten percent of the teen-age population,]one-third of all teenage suicides are gays and lesbians.U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH
from this site.
http://www.mcwilliams.com/books/aint/309.htm
Now Floating axe and others.... if you thought it is possible to change your sexual orientation, as long as you tried hard enough, what about these folks that committed suicide. I bet they tried very hard, they didn't love the "sin", obviously. They just knew the world was full of individuals like yourself and they couldn't change.

That was also my final answer to homosexuality was suicide. I was just fortunite enough to experience a meracle and not die.

 

[Remny]

Also, these bible passages could Elude to God's acceptance of homosexuality, heh especially the last one.

After David had finished talking with Saul, Jonathan became one in spirit with David, and he loved him as himself. From that day Saul kept David with him and did not let him return to his father's house. And Jonathan made a covenant with David because he loved him as himself. Jonathan took off the robe he was wearing and gave it to David, along with his tunic, and even his sword, his bow and his belt. (1 Samuel 18:1–4)
After the boy had gone, David got up from the south side of the stone and bowed down before Jonathan three times, with his face to the ground. Then they kissed each other and wept together—but David wept the most. Jonathan said to David, "Go in peace, for we have sworn friendship with each other in the name of the Lord, saying, `The Lord is witness between you and me, and between your descendants and my descendants forever.'" (1 Samuel 20:41–42)
"Saul and Jonathan—in life they were loved and gracious, and in death they were not parted. They were swifter than eagles, they were stronger than lions." (2 Samuel 1:23)
"I grieve for you, Jonathan my brother; you were very dear to me. Your love for me was wonderful, more wonderful than that of women." (2 Samuel 1:26)
​

 

[Phinehas2]

Well Remmy that depends on how one interprets the statistics. On this forum some pro-gay posters would say the statistics are just your interpretation, or at least they say that about the Bible passages.
But I wont dispute the statistics, all I would ask is had you considered that the reason could be that they are listening to the likes of that site and the gay lobbies who tell them Christians dont accept them? Whereas they should be listening to Christians who tell them that they are fully loved by God just as much as anyone else.
God delights in His creation and all His creation struggle with temptations.
Had you thought of that? We have teenagers in our church who struggle with this issue, but they know enough of God and they arent depressed with church, on the contrary some of them have difficult home lives anyway and its where they find the most love and acceptance.
So in short, no.

 

[Remny]

Quoted from http://www.backyardnature.net/j/o/homosex.htm

For, nothing is more experimental and broad-minded than Mother Nature. When you look at the Creation you clearly see that the Creator's plan is to create diversity at all levels of reality, and to evolve that diversity to ever higher levels of sophistication -- whether it's forming galaxies from hydrogen gas, or evolving life on Earth. Moreover, just about any strategy furthering those blossomings is acceptable.
Among plants, sometimes flowers possess both male and female sex organs, sometimes they are unisexual and on different plants, sometimes unisexual and on the same plants, sometimes flowers are designed so they can't self-pollinate, other times they have to pollinate themselves, and some plants skip the sex scene altogether by reproducing vegetatively.

Among animals we find everything from the male seahorse who carries the eggs, hatches them and takes care of the young, to the "polyandrous" Spotted Sandpiper whose females may lay up to four nests in a season, each equipped with a different male incubating the eggs. Of course the common earthworm is both male and female, and some snails sometimes mate with themselves, producing offspring.

The higher up the evolutionary scale you go, the kinkier it all gets. Among communities of mice and other mammals, when population density reaches a certain high level where diseases and famine threaten, not only does homosexual behavior appear but also parents begin killing their own offspring. It's always the case that the Creator chooses the welfare of the community over that of the individual. If you'd like to review online notes of a series of university lectures dealing with parent-offspring conflict, including infanticide and the effects of high population densities on higher mammals, go to http://www-personal.umich.edu/~phyl/weektwelve.html

If you have access to a science library or can use a search engine artfully, references to technical, academic papers detailing homosexual behaviors in a wide variety of primates, from langurs to orangutans to pit-tailed macaques can be accessed at www.androphile.org/preview/Library/Articles/Werner/Werner20.24.htm

Among human populations, homosexuality occurs at a certain rate in all populations. Thus homosexuality is natural and inevitable. Data suggests that homosexuality may be at least partly genetically determined. A semi-technical paper at the University of Texas with the title "Biological Correlates of being Gay - Biological Determinism?" is available at www.utexas.edu/courses/bio301d/Topics/Gay/Text.html

In short, it's simply wrong to say that homosexual behavior is never natural.
Why would the Creator create this state of affairs among humans? I don't know, but my own experience with human gays is that, on the average, they are more sensitive, insightful and caring than the rest of us, so maybe that's enough of an answer right there.

Some examples of homosexuality in nature.

 

[Remny]

Phinehas, I'm exceptionally happy that you belong to a church that is more accepting of gay people. But do you think that is the norm?

At my foursquare church they tried to exorcise demons of homosexuality out of me, at my luthren church they would no longer alow me to attend youth group. I have found very few churches that were accepting of homosexuality. Admitadly, the ones I did find were very ugh. The MCC "Metropolitan Community Church" was faaar too liberal for me, despite me being gay, I am somewhat conservative. The Unitarian Universalists were very ugh as well because they thought just about any God was ok, when I'm really only into the One True Christian God.

I have read about more normal or, traditional churches being more accepting of gays these days, but in my experience its definatly not the norm.

 

[Phinehas2]

Remmy,
Had it not occured to you that Jesus and the disciples kissed and I kissed and Jesus says we must love Him more than anyone
"Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; - Matthew 10
You have made an assumption that doesnt have very much credibility, see how the word here 'love'
'ahabah isnt sex. you wouldn't for example see the same word in Deuteronomy 7
The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye the fewest of all people:
But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt."
that this is about God having sex with His people?

Now you wrote

if you thought it is possible to change your sexual orientation

yet David later had sexual relationships with women, so if you are making the false assumption that his relationship with Johnathan was homosexual, then David must have changed; or of course been bisexual which destroys your argument of this being a homosexual example.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear Remmy,
well yes we are therefore and must be accepting and loving of people with same-sex attraction in our church.

At my foursquare church they tried to exorcise demons of homosexuality out of me, at my luthren church they would no longer alow me to attend youth group. I have found very few churches that were accepting of homosexuality.

Ok but what do you mean by homosexuality? No true church can be accpeting of same-sex sex or any sex outside marriage. If anyone however is a new creation in Christ they know this, they should also expect everyone else to fully accept them despite their struggles and even any falling short and repentance.

 

[Remny]

Phinehas, I agree with you, I was just saying it was interesting to look at. And it is POSSIBLE there was a homosexual relationship involved, that he would say greater than a woman is pretty odd, if not eluding to a romantic love.

Anyhow I was just saying it "could elude", I'm not really convinced either way, this is why I pray to God for answers and not to the bible!

 

[Zecryphon]

oh really? The Bible says you should put us to death. Why are you disobeying God?

Because for us to put you to death would be a violation of the laws of the local, state and federal government and also of God's law of 'thou shall not murder.' We are to obey the laws of the government unless they conflict with the word of God.

 

[Remny]

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believe in him shall not perish, but have ever lasting life.

Its so nuts that you would argue about true christians and whos going to hell or not when the bible clearly states in the above passage that all you need to be a christian and to have ever lasting life is to believe in Jesus. It does not say believe and do this this and this, or also don't be gay.

 

[Zecryphon]

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believe in him shall not perish, but have ever lasting life.

Its so nuts that you would argue about true christians and whos going to hell or not when the bible clearly states in the above passage that all you need to be a christian and to have ever lasting life is to believe in Jesus. It does not say believe and do this this and this, or also don't be gay.

Well there is a bit more to being a Christian than that. You do have to repent of your sins as well. Jesus told His disciples to repent of their sins or perish. You can find those scriptures in Luke 13:1-5.

 

[Brieuse]

Because for us to put you to death would be a violation of the laws of the local, state and federal government and also of God's law of 'thou shall not murder.' We are to obey the laws of the government unless they conflict with the word of God.

Really?

That's a new one.

All I see is cherry picking. The scripture says homosexuals should be put to death, according to some on this forum. Ignore half of the scripture for convenience and judge people on the other half.

Those that want to live by the Old Law must live by the entire Old Law. I've got Jesus.

 

[mont974x4]

The old Law debate is a moot point since many of the issues and sins are readdressed in the NT.