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It's obvious that you are not interested in "growth in learning." That's clear from the tone of your previous posts. You just want to tell gay people that we are living "lifestyles of sin." When you stop saying this, and when you start listening to gay people rather than lecturing at us, then we can begin learning together. But not while you harbor negative attitudes toward gay people."People do take me seriously. It's clear that you take me seriously, or you would not bother to respond to my posts."
I am starting to not take you seriously, because of the lack of proof you have provided for your assertions.
"If you refrain from calling our relationships "sin," then great. We can have a positive acquaintanceship. But calling our love "sin" is maligning us, and it is slander against gay people. And I for one will challenge you and others when you slander us."
You're confusing God's judgment with our judgment. You're saying that we are judging you and maligning you when we call your relationships sin. We are telilng you what God has said about your relationships. If humans rendered their own judgment on this matter, it would probably be something more to your liking because it would sound something like "hey, if it feels good, do it." But that's not what scripture teaches and that's not God's attitude about this matter and that's what we as Christians must proclaim, God's truth, not man's.
"I do not rely on Bible verses as any authority, and so no, I will not cite Bible verses."
I did not ask you to cite Bible verses in my last post, I asked you to interpret some. You didn't. Why not? There can't be any growth or learning on either side if we don't understand how we come to our conclusions about what God has to say on this matter.
"And fyi, I am not a "sir." I am a woman."
My apologies to you ma'am.
You don't need to judge gay people's sexual relationships at all. You can just stop judging gay people and let us be. You don't go around lecturing divorced people about their divorces, do you? Why presume to lecture gay people about our lives?"Please stop beating up gay people with your Bible."
I can hardly beat anybody with anything as this is an internet forum and physical contact is not an issue. I find it very interesting that you want to use examples from the Bible, such as Jesus telling us to love our neighbor as ourself, to rebuke Christians with whom you disagree, but have made it clear that the Bible is not any type of authority for you. So how does that work? Do you get to use it when you it suits your fancy and disregard it when it doesn't suit your fancy? That's certainly not consistent behavior.
Jesus often rebuked people in the Bible for their actions. He called the Pharisees a brood of vipers and publicly rebuked the moneychangers in the temple. He gave law to the proud and grace to the humble. He did not come to earth to give us all a great big hug and tell us all that we were doing good in His father's eyes. He came to reconcile us to God with His sacrifice on the cross, to pay the penalty we ALL have earned through our sins against God. Sexual sin is a sin against God too. Don't think just because you're gay, you get a free pass in this area. You don't, we have all sinned and earned God's wrath, which is why we need Jesus as our savior.
"And I do not care what you "expect." Be more respectful toward gay people, please."
You make it clear that you do not care about my expectations yet tell me to be more respectful towards gay people? Don't you find that attitude just a tad bit hypocritical? You don't have to show me or my thoughts any respect ,but I have to respect yours? Please. Respect is earned not given freely or given because someone tells you to do so. If you want respect, you have to give it. I have given it to you thus far, I expect the same in return. But given your previous statement, I probably shouldn't hold my breath, huh?
How would I give more respect to gay people in your estimation? Should I disregard the Bible in the same manner that you do? Should I tell you that your sexual relationships are a-okay, because that would make you feel better about yourself? Should I not judge those in the body of Christ, simply because you have a problem with that behavior? I am servant of Christ, God and the Holy Spirit, I proclaim the truth as revealed by them, not man's truth. If that truth is so offensive to you, you probably shouldn't be in a Christian forum. People tend to quote the Bible frequently here.
"It's obvious that you are not interested in "growth in learning." That's clear from the tone of your previous posts."It's obvious that you are not interested in "growth in learning." That's clear from the tone of your previous posts. You just want to tell gay people that we are living "lifestyles of sin." When you stop saying this, and when you start listening to gay people rather than lecturing at us, then we can begin learning together. But not while you harbor negative attitudes toward gay people.
Now I really must go pick up my little one.
"You don't need to judge gay people's sexual relationships at all. You can just stop judging gay people and let us be."You don't need to judge gay people's sexual relationships at all. You can just stop judging gay people and let us be. You don't go around lecturing divorced people about their divorces, do you? Why presume to lecture gay people about our lives?
Btw, I apologize to you for being overly angry at you earlier. I should have been more respectful toward you. Please accept my apology for over-reacting. I get tired of hearing the same things over and over again from people who insist on telling us that our relationships are "sin." And today I over-reacted.
from Ohioprof:
I am a Christian. But I do not regard the Bible as the word of God.
To say you're a Christian who doesn't believe the Bible as the Word of God is contradictory, isn't it?
Nope. I'm a Christian and don't believe the Bible is the inerrent word of God(Man, I had to write this in the other thread as well.) Then, why would David write in Psalm 119:128, "I consider all Your precepts right, I hate every wrong path"? And why would he say in Psalm 119:138, "The statutes You have laid down are righteous; they are fully trustworthy"? The whole context of that chapter is about God's Word.
To say you're a Christian who doesn't believe the Bible as the Word of God is contradictory, isn't it?
To be a child of God is to love His Word. To be a Christ-follower (Christian), is to listen to and obey Christ's Words. (Matthew 7:24-27- "Parable of the Wise and Foolish Builders")
We're not being disrespectful. We're just trying to illuminate God's Word to those who think homosexuality is right.
You have to read something literally before you can look for a symbolic or deeper meaning. There is just no other way to read any book, without reading what it says literally first. The definition I've found for "literal" means exact, word for word. How else would you read something if not exactly as written before looking for a deeper meaning?ANother Christian here who isnt a Biblical literalist. Don't get me wrong theres plenty of important stuff in the Bible, but reading it literally without prior analysis when its such an ancient text seems a bit silly.
You have to read something literally before you can look for a symbolic or deeper meaning.
"Who told you that?"Who told you that?
(I am also a Christian who does not read the bible literally.)
I don't read the bible with the eyes, heart, or agenda of a literalist."Who told you that?"
That's basic common sense. You have to read something word for word first before you can try and figure out what it means. How do you read a book, any book? You read what is written on the page and then go from there.
"(I am also a Christian who does not read the bible literally.)"
You may not assign a literal interpretation to what you've read, but you have to read what is written on the page, word for word, before you can interpret anything. Otherwise, there is no basis upon which to build an understanding of what you've just read. It's just letters on a page with no meaning whatsoever.
ANother Christian here who isnt a Biblical literalist. Don't get me wrong theres plenty of important stuff in the Bible, but reading it literally without prior analysis when its such an ancient text seems a bit silly.
"I don't read the bible with the eyes, heart, or agenda of a literalist."I don't read the bible with the eyes, heart, or agenda of a literalist.
Sentence 1 - your literalism cripples you, obviously."I don't read the bible with the eyes, heart, or agenda of a literalist."
You don't read it with your eyes? How do you do it then? Also, what is the "agenda" of a literalist? Why is it that people who take it symbolically don't have an agenda? Why this need to try and villify people who take it as it is written?
I find it strange that the very people who want the bible read literally are the first ones to reject the literal reading of the passages they say concern homoseuxualityliteralism:n: fidelity to observable fact: realism (literalist, literalistic)
Sad. Why would God NOT want you to read His law, precepts, statutes, decrees, commands and words literally? (Are those words found in the Bible?)
The compilation of all these laws and decrees we call the Bible isn't a grouping of mere suggestions; they're commands. We learn from them lessons appropriate in each genre: history, poetry, symbolic literature, letters, etc.
There are three basic kinds of religious authority: 1) human reason 2) the Church, and 3) God's Word. As this has been proved over and over, human reasoning cannot be trusted. The church is second best, but power corrupts, sometimes. The only thing left is God's Word, which He used fallible man to write an infallible message.
"Sentence 1 - your literalism cripples you, obviously."Sentence 1 - your literalism cripples you, obviously.
I did not villify anyone.
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