Homosexuality: Right or Wrong? (read pg1)

Zecryphon · Nov 29, 2007

EnemyPartyII said:
The Bible advocates stoning rape victims to death.

So whats changed? Why not stone rape victims anymore but villify homosexuals?

"The Bible advocates stoning rape victims to death."

Where? Do you have any actual passages that we could examine?

"So whats changed? Why not stone rape victims anymore but villify homosexuals?"

First, you have to establish that the stoning of rape victims is actually commanded by God. You'd also have to establish that the "villification" of homosexuals is commanded by God too. So far, you've established neither.

We're not talking about the villification of homosexuals here but rape victims being stoned to death. I think what you're calling villification of homosexuals, is really nothing more than what you call who say homosexuals are sinners for engaging in same-sex sex.

Zecryphon · Nov 29, 2007

JohnChapter14 said:
Did you ever read the Left Behind series? UU sounds just like Enigma New Babylon One World Faith.

"
Enigma Babylon One World Faith is a fictional world religion in the Left Behind series that ostensibly seeks to harmonise the remaining faiths on earth after the Rapture as portrayed in the novel.
During the period for a year and a half after the Rapture, where Christians were taken away from earth, Nicolae Carpathia rises to power. He begins to deal with the idea of a one-world religion with top officials in the Global Community. The "Global Community Faith" is established in the Vatican City after the Global Community was established in New Babylon. This new syncretistic, global religion accepts any religion and faith in the world, claiming equality. The "Global Community Faith" is quickly renamed "Enigma Babylon One World Faith" and Cardinal Peter Mathews is named Pontifex Maximus of Enigma Babylon One World Faith by Nicolae Carpathia.
Enigma Babylon's slogan is "God is in all. God is all. We are God." which appears to be reminiscient to pantheistic universalism.
The faith believes that any way to God is a valid way and that people can follow their "spirit guide", similar to Universalism. The scholars of Enigma Babylon say that they accept all of the sacred writings (the Bible, the Torah, the Qur'an, etc.), but they truly believe that many things in the holy books are symbolic or allegorical, misinterpretations or metaphors.
The world eagerly accepts the newly-formed world religion, but after the Global Gala (see Global Community), Enigma Babylon One World Faith is abolished and supplanted with "Carpathianism", a one-world religion worshipping Nicolae Carpathia himself, with Carpathia's majordomo Leon Fortunato as its Most High Reverend Father."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enigma_Babylon_One_World_Faith

"Did you ever read the Left Behind series? UU sounds just like Enigma New Babylon One World Faith."

With the exception that in Enigma New Babylon One World Faith, they bow down to Nicolae Carpathia and worship him as a god. They're not each following their own spiritual conceptualization of who or what God is, the way UU's do. Also, if you did not bow down to Carpathia, take his mark and worship him as god, you got the guillotine. There are some major differences. LOL

Ohioprof · Nov 29, 2007

Zecryphon said:
"The Bible advocates stoning rape victims to death."

Where? Do you have any actual passages that we could examine?

"So whats changed? Why not stone rape victims anymore but villify homosexuals?"

First, you have to establish that the stoning of rape victims is actually commanded by God. You'd also have to establish that the "villification" of homosexuals is commanded by God too. So far, you've established neither.

We're not talking about the villification of homosexuals here but rape victims being stoned to death. I think what you're calling villification of homosexuals, is really nothing more than what you call who say homosexuals are sinners for engaging in same-sex sex.

Saying that our love is a sin is vilification of us. Not the worst form of vilification, but it is still a denigration of our love. And it's wrong.

Ohioprof · Nov 29, 2007

Zecryphon said:
"Did you ever read the Left Behind series? UU sounds just like Enigma New Babylon One World Faith."

With the exception that in Enigma New Babylon One World Faith, they bow down to Nicolae Carpathia and worship him as a god. They're not each following their own spiritual conceptualization of who or what God is, the way UU's do. Also, if you did not bow down to Carpathia, take his mark and worship him as god, you got the guillotine. There are some major differences. LOL

Huh? How does our faith tradition sound anything like that? We don't bow down to anyone.

David Brider · Nov 29, 2007

Zecryphon said:
First, you have to establish that the stoning of rape victims is actually commanded by God.

The passage in question is Deuteronomy 22:23 - 27:

Deuteronomy said:
If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to deaththe girl because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man's wife. You must purge the evil from among you.

But if out in the country a man happens to meet a girl pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. Do nothing to the girl; she has committed no sin deserving death. This case is like that of someone who attacks and murders his neighbor, for the man found the girl out in the country, and though the betrothed girl screamed, there was no one to rescue her.

Of course, it's not talking about all forms of rape (in fact, it's almost pedantic in its specifications), but even so, it seems to be rather harsh on the victim.

David.

RMDY · Nov 29, 2007

Zecryphon said:
"Did you ever read the Left Behind series? UU sounds just like Enigma New Babylon One World Faith."

With the exception that in Enigma New Babylon One World Faith, they bow down to Nicolae Carpathia and worship him as a god. They're not each following their own spiritual conceptualization of who or what God is, the way UU's do. Also, if you did not bow down to Carpathia, take his mark and worship him as god, you got the guillotine. There are some major differences. LOL

Actually, if you read up to book 4 or 5, that is what it sounds like. At that point, Enigmaists worship God in their own ways. That what my point. What I am saying is such a belief is deceptive and will prove fatal for those who do not believe in the gospel of Christ.

RMDY · Nov 29, 2007

Ohioprof said:
Huh? How does our faith tradition sound anything like that? We don't bow down to anyone.

Not even Jesus?

RMDY · Nov 29, 2007

(plans to go to bed now)

Ohioprof · Nov 29, 2007

JohnChapter14 said:
Actually, if you read up to book 4 or 5, that is what it sounds like. At that point, Enigmaists worship God in their own ways. That what my point. What I am saying is such a belief is deceptive and will prove fatal for those who do not believe in the gospel of Christ.

Instead of judging my faith tradition negatively without knowing anything about it, why don't you read about it and actually learn something about Unitarian Universalism? You can look at our website: http://www.uua.org

Ohioprof · Nov 29, 2007

JohnChapter14 said:
(plans to go to bed now)

Good night, John. Pleasant dreams.

Ohioprof · Nov 29, 2007

JohnChapter14 said:
Not even Jesus?

No. If individuals in our faith tradition choose to bow down to Jesus, that is up to them. They are free to do so. But our religious community does not bow down to anyone.

Zecryphon · Nov 29, 2007

Ohioprof said:
Saying that our love is a sin is vilification of us. Not the worst form of vilification, but it is still a denigration of our love. And it's wrong.

"Saying that our love is a sin is vilification of us."

Okay, first of all that's not what we're saying. Stop misrepresenting us so you can accuse us falsely of things we're not even doing. That IS a sin. It's called bearing false witness and is a violation of the ninth commandment. We're not saying the emotion of love you feel for each other is a sin. We're saying, or better yet, I am saying that it is the same-sex sex you have with each other that is a sin. It is the sin of adultery, which Jesus Himself said is a sin and even took it a step further and said that if a man lusts after a woman in his heart, he is guilty of adultery.

"Not the worst form of vilification, but it is still a denigration of our love. And it's wrong."

It's not a denigration of your love, because we're not addressing your emotions here or your feelings, but the sexual acts you commit with each other. Get on the same page as us and we'll talk.

Zecryphon · Nov 29, 2007

Ohioprof said:
Huh? How does our faith tradition sound anything like that? We don't bow down to anyone.

That was my point to JohnChapter14. His comparison between UU and Enigma One New Babylon World Faith or whatever that thing was called in Left Behind is not accurate, because the people who were part of that faith had to bow down to a specific person and worship him as a god. You don't have to do that. That's why his comparison fails.

Zecryphon · Nov 29, 2007

David Brider said:
[/COLOR]

The passage in question is Deuteronomy 22:23 - 27:

Of course, it's not talking about all forms of rape (in fact, it's almost pedantic in its specifications), but even so, it seems to be rather harsh on the victim.

David.

You providing the scriptures is not the same as EPII providing the scriptures to support her claim. I asked her to do it, because I'm quite certain that she does not know where to find them as she never provides proof for anything she claims is true about the Bible.

Zecryphon · Nov 29, 2007

JohnChapter14 said:
Actually, if you read up to book 4 or 5, that is what it sounds like. At that point, Enigmaists worship God in their own ways. That what my point. What I am saying is such a belief is deceptive and will prove fatal for those who do not believe in the gospel of Christ.

Yes, that's true, but in book seven, after Nicolae has been assassinated and resurrected from the dead, the Enigma Babylon faith is trashed, right after Pontimus Maximus Peter Matthews is killed and in comes a new faith called Carpathianism, where it is commanded that Nicolae not only be worshipped as a god, but is God. The mark of the beast is instituted and anyone who is found to not have the mark has the choice of accepting it or facing the guillotine.

Phinehas2 · Nov 29, 2007

Dear Ohioprof,

No. If individuals in our faith tradition choose to bow down to Jesus, that is up to them. They are free to do so. But our religious community does not bow down to anyone.

Pardon? So if some Unitarians in your faith tradition choose to bow down to Jesus, how does your religious community not bow down to anyone??

Ohioprof · Nov 29, 2007

Zecryphon said:
"Saying that our love is a sin is vilification of us."

Okay, first of all that's not what we're saying. Stop misrepresenting us so you can accuse us falsely of things we're not even doing. That IS a sin. It's called bearing false witness and is a violation of the ninth commandment. We're not saying the emotion of love you feel for each other is a sin. We're saying, or better yet, I am saying that it is the same-sex sex you have with each other that is a sin. It is the sin of adultery, which Jesus Himself said is a sin and even took it a step further and said that if a man lusts after a woman in his heart, he is guilty of adultery.

"Not the worst form of vilification, but it is still a denigration of our love. And it's wrong."

It's not a denigration of your love, because we're not addressing your emotions here or your feelings, but the sexual acts you commit with each other. Get on the same page as us and we'll talk.

I stand by what I said previously said. Saying that our love is a sin is vilification of us. That's what I think, and I stand by it.

You are not the only "us" in these forums, my friend. There is also an "us" that consists of gay people, and your posts denigrate our love. That's the truth.

Please stop referring to "the sexual acts" that we supposedly "commit" with each other. Our loves lives are none of your business. They are part of our love relationships. We do not "commit" sexual acts; we express our love for each other, the same as heterosexuals do. Again, how we love each is none of your business. It's not for you to judge, so stop it.

Phinehas2 · Nov 29, 2007

Dear Ohioprof,

I stay by what I said previously Saying that our love is a sin is vilification of us.

then dont say it.. we cartianly arent saying that.

Please stop telling me what to write.

Then cease misrepresenting us when we have clearly told you our position.

Please stick to explaining your position ... ie So if some Unitarians in your faith tradition choose to bow down to Jesus, how does your religious community not bow down to anyone??

Ohioprof · Nov 29, 2007

Phinehas2 said:
Dear Ohioprof,
Pardon? So if some Unitarians in your faith tradition choose to bow down to Jesus, how does your religious community not bow down to anyone??

Our community bows down to no one. Individuals in our community may choose to do so, but our community as a whole does not. We leave the choice of whom to worship up to each individual. There is a distinction to be made between the church body as a whole and individuals within the church body.

Ohioprof · Nov 29, 2007

Phinehas2 said:
Dear Ohioprof,
then dont say it.. we cartianly arent saying that.

Then cease misrepresenting us when we have clearly told you our position.

I am not misrepresenting you. I am telling you what your comments actually do, in fact. They denigrate our love. And who is this "us" you keep referring to?

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