Homosexuality: Right or Wrong? (read pg1)

[EnemyPartyII]

Pretty sure? Go find some evidence to support your claim the the OT was written by nomadic goatherders please.

Was Moses a Shepherd?

Was he Nomadic?

Need a diagram?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Truth transcends culture and time.

so... are you supporting stoning rape victims now?

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

What gives you the impression that God possesed people to have them write the Bible?

Not even the Bible claims such a thing!

The Spirit of God was not just an idle bystander. Remember the prophets? After Christ, the final prophet, the indwelling of the Spirit to believers? God possesses all of His believers, we were bought for a price.

 

[shepsgirl]

What gives you the impression that God possesed people to have them write the Bible?

Not even the Bible claims such a thing!

The Bible is inspired by God. God's Holy Spirit put what to write into the hearts of the men who wrote it. So God, through men, wrote the Bible.

 

[Zecryphon]

My objection is rather more to do with trying to overlay the societal norms and concerns of a bronze age semi nomadic pastoral society onto a post industrialist, information based urbanised one, without taking any of the fundamental differences into account.

Even YOU guys know things are different, as evidenced, once again, by the fact we no longer stone rape victims to death. And rightly so.

"My objection is rather more to do with trying to overlay the societal norms and concerns of a bronze age semi nomadic pastoral society onto a post industrialist, information based urbanised one, without taking any of the fundamental differences into account."

Such as? And when did these pastoral nomads switch from being full blown nomads to being semi-nomads? Must have been somewhere between post # 832 and 837. LOL Can you be consistent in anything you type?

"Even YOU guys know things are different, as evidenced, once again, by the fact we no longer stone rape victims to death. And rightly so."

Who here is advocating stoning rape victims to death?

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

My objection is rather more to do with trying to overlay the societal norms and concerns of a bronze age semi nomadic pastoral society onto a post industrialist, information based urbanised one, without taking any of the fundamental differences into account.

Even YOU guys know things are different, as evidenced, once again, by the fact we no longer stone rape victims to death. And rightly so.

What does this have to do with God's position in regards to homosexual acts? Sexual sin is not equal to societal norms/concerns.

 

[Floatingaxe]

so... are you supporting stoning rape victims now?

We punish liars, just as that law was created to do. Adultery and fornication and rape all receive their due penalty as sin.

 

[Zecryphon]

Was Moses a Shepherd?

Was he Nomadic?

Need a diagram?

"Was Moses a Shepherd?"

No. Moses was Egyptian royalty. We do read in Exodus 3 however, that Moses was tending to his father-in-law's flock when an angel of the Lord appeared to him, but that does not support your assertion that Moses was nothing more than a nomadic goatherder.

"Was he Nomadic?"

Nomads spend their lives moving from place to place. Moses was raised as Egyptian royalty from the time Pharaoh's daughter found him in a basket among the reeds and took him as her own son.

Exo 2:1 Now a man from the house of Levi went and took as his wife a Levite woman. Exo 2:2 The woman conceived and bore a son, and when she saw that he was a fine child, she hid him three months. Exo 2:3 When she could hide him no longer, she took for him a basket made of bulrushes and daubed it with bitumen and pitch. She put the child in it and placed it among the reeds by the river bank. Exo 2:4 And his sister stood at a distance to know what would be done to him. Exo 2:5 Now the daughter of Pharaoh came down to bathe at the river, while her young women walked beside the river. She saw the basket among the reeds and sent her servant woman, and she took it. Exo 2:6 When she opened it, she saw the child, and behold, the baby was crying. She took pity on him and said, "This is one of the Hebrews' children." Exo 2:7 Then his sister said to Pharaoh's daughter, "Shall I go and call you a nurse from the Hebrew women to nurse the child for you?" Exo 2:8 And Pharaoh's daughter said to her, "Go." So the girl went and called the child's mother. Exo 2:9 And Pharaoh's daughter said to her, "Take this child away and nurse him for me, and I will give you your wages." So the woman took the child and nursed him. Exo 2:10 When the child grew up, she brought him to Pharaoh's daughter, and he became her son. She named him Moses, "Because," she said, "I drew him out of the water."

Later he led people out of slavery and bondage in Egypt to the promised land of Israel. There's quite a difference between what you claim and what the scriptures state. So whom are we to believe? Hmmm.

"Need a diagram?"

Why are you getting snippy with me? You're the one who once again has no clue what she's talking about.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

"My objection is rather more to do with trying to overlay the societal norms and concerns of a bronze age semi nomadic pastoral society onto a post industrialist, information based urbanised one, without taking any of the fundamental differences into account."

Such as? And when did these pastoral nomads switch from being full blown nomads to being semi-nomads? Must have been somewhere between post # 832 and 837. LOL Can you be consistent in anything you type?

"Even YOU guys know things are different, as evidenced, once again, by the fact we no longer stone rape victims to death. And rightly so."

Who here is advocating stoning rape victims to death?

The Bible advocates stoning rape victims to death.

So whats changed? Why not stone rape victims anymore but villify homosexuals?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

No. Moses was Egyptian royalty. We do read in Exodus 3 however, that Moses was tending to his father-in-law's flock when an angel of the Lord appeared to him, but that does not support your assertion that Moses was nothing more than a nomadic goatherder.

Gee, I thought Moses was a Jewish child set adrift in the river and on;ly ADOPTED into Egyptian royalty... or would you like to stop playing silly semantic games and accept my point that the ancient Israelites existed in a different social matrix than we do today?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

We punish liars, just as that law was created to do. Adultery and fornication and rape all receive their due penalty as sin.

And rape victims? what about the rape victims? You know, in the actual QUESTION THAT WAS ASKED?

 

[shepsgirl]

The Bible advocates stoning rape victims to death.

So whats changed? Why not stone rape victims anymore but villify homosexuals?

First of all, rape victims were stoned if they didn't scream for help.

23 If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, 24 you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the girl because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man's wife. You must purge the evil from among you. 25 But if out in the country a man happens to meet a girl pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. Deuteronomy 22:23-25. Jesus did away with that way of punishing. But in the new testament it still condemns homosexuality.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

First of all, rape victims were stoned if they didn't scream for help.

23 If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, 24 you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the girl because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man's wife. You must purge the evil from among you. 25 But if out in the country a man happens to meet a girl pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. Deuteronomy 22:23-25. Jesus did away with that way of punishing. But in the new testament it still condemns homosexuality.

I'm aware of when rape victims were to be stoned to death.

So, imagine you are raped. Imagine your attacker holds a knife at your throat and says "I'll gut you if you make a sound, and then cut up your baby in the next room"... are you going to make a sound?

I wouldn't.

So, under the OT law, I'm to be stoned to death as an adulterer.

Does this seem reasonable?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

First of all, rape victims were stoned if they didn't scream for help.

23 If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, 24 you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the girl because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man's wife. You must purge the evil from among you. 25 But if out in the country a man happens to meet a girl pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. Deuteronomy 22:23-25. Jesus did away with that way of punishing. But in the new testament it still condemns homosexuality.

and where does Jesus condemn homosexuality?

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

I'm aware of when rape victims were to be stoned to death.

So, imagine you are raped. Imagine your attacker holds a knife at your throat and says "I'll gut you if you make a sound, and then cut up your baby in the next room"... are you going to make a sound?

I wouldn't.

So, under the OT law, I'm to be stoned to death as an adulterer.

Does this seem reasonable?

way to completely overlook the reason for the law in the first place. The laws intention is that since adulterous actions were punished by stoning, a woman is to scream for help if she is being raped as not to be confused with a woman that is consenting to adulterous sex.

It has loopholes, like most laws do, and was written in an archaic society structure. Therefore such a stringent bead on a loophole like that in an attempt to discredit the law as a whole is unfair.

 

[Floatingaxe]

or would you like to stop playing silly semantic games and accept my point that the ancient Israelites existed in a different social matrix than we do today?

And what brainiac is differing with that view? After all we don't stone rape victims in this culture, do we?

 

[Floatingaxe]

And rape victims? what about the rape victims? You know, in the actual QUESTION THAT WAS ASKED?

Yes, do you? The law was for liars and fornicators.

 

[Floatingaxe]

I'm aware of when rape victims were to be stoned to death.

So, imagine you are raped. Imagine your attacker holds a knife at your throat and says "I'll gut you if you make a sound, and then cut up your baby in the next room"... are you going to make a sound?

I wouldn't.

So, under the OT law, I'm to be stoned to death as an adulterer.

Does this seem reasonable?

Yes. It's collateral damage.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

Yes. It's collateral damage.

And to add to that, it was enacted during a time when there was no video cameras, recording devices, or even prisons. This is another reason why some laws do not apply to us today. This one in particular is only applicable to that ancient society in which it was written.

 

[RMDY]

Unitarian Universalism is certainly not "New Age." Unitarianism in America goes back to the 18th century, and that part of our faith tradition descended directly from Puritanism. Universalism in America goes back to the 19th century. Our faith tradition has certainly changed over the years, but it is an old faith tradition, and it cannot accurately be labeled New Age. Harvard Divinity School started as a Unitarian divinity school. Several American Presidents have been Unitarians.

I have said that UUs are free to believe in Christian doctrine and to be Christian if we choose. You continue to doubt this, but it's true. UUs can believe in a literal resurrection in the the truth of the Bible if they want to, and some do believe that. We do not have any rule saying that people are free to follow their own spiritual path except the path of Christianity. For a Unitarian Universalist, embracing Christianity can mean whatever the individual thinks it means.

You may believe that there are "set beliefs" that all Christians must adhere to, and I disagree with you about that. The fact that there are no such "set beliefs" is why we have so many Christian sects. We had a Protestant Reformation as a revolt within Christianity against "set beliefs." I think one of the great features of Christianity is the fact that we are such a diverse faith, with people of many different beliefs within our faith.

Did you ever read the Left Behind series? UU sounds just like Enigma New Babylon One World Faith.


"
Enigma Babylon One World Faith is a fictional world religion in the Left Behind series that ostensibly seeks to harmonise the remaining faiths on earth after the Rapture as portrayed in the novel.
During the period for a year and a half after the Rapture, where Christians were taken away from earth, Nicolae Carpathia rises to power. He begins to deal with the idea of a one-world religion with top officials in the Global Community. The "Global Community Faith" is established in the Vatican City after the Global Community was established in New Babylon. This new syncretistic, global religion accepts any religion and faith in the world, claiming equality. The "Global Community Faith" is quickly renamed "Enigma Babylon One World Faith" and Cardinal Peter Mathews is named Pontifex Maximus of Enigma Babylon One World Faith by Nicolae Carpathia.
Enigma Babylon's slogan is "God is in all. God is all. We are God." which appears to be reminiscient to pantheistic universalism.
The faith believes that any way to God is a valid way and that people can follow their "spirit guide", similar to Universalism. The scholars of Enigma Babylon say that they accept all of the sacred writings (the Bible, the Torah, the Qur'an, etc.), but they truly believe that many things in the holy books are symbolic or allegorical, misinterpretations or metaphors.
The world eagerly accepts the newly-formed world religion, but after the Global Gala (see Global Community), Enigma Babylon One World Faith is abolished and supplanted with "Carpathianism", a one-world religion worshipping Nicolae Carpathia himself, with Carpathia's majordomo Leon Fortunato as its Most High Reverend Father."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enigma_Babylon_One_World_Faith