Homosexuality is wrong....so you fail

[marksman007]

An exhaustive 1978 Kinsey Institute study of homosexuality showed that 28 per cent of homosexual males had sexual encounters with 1,000 or more males. And 79 per cent said more than half of their sex partners were strangers. Only one per cent of sexually active men had fewer than five lifetime partners.http://www.christianforums.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=53161424#_edn1

The study concludes, “Little credence can be given to the supposition that homosexual men’s ‘promiscuity’ has been overestimated . . . Almost half of the white homosexual males said that they had at least 500 different sexual partners during the course of their homosexual careers.”[ii]

A 1982 study of AIDS victims by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control found that eleven hundred sexual partners was about average, with some reporting as many as twenty thousand partners.[iii] One homosexual reported, “I believe my estimate of 4,000 sex partners to be very accurate. I have been actively gay since I was 13 (thirty-one years ago). An average of two or three new partners per week is not excessive; especially when one considers that I will have ten to twelve partners during one night at the baths.”[iv]

http://www.christianforums.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=53161424#_ednref1 Ibid.

[ii] Ibid.

[iii] Cited in Roger Magnuson, Are Gay Rights Right?, p 43.

[iv] Karla Jay and Allen Young, The Gay Report. New York: Summit, 1979, p 250.

 

[ArgentBear]

I don't think the Advocate or the Homosexual Men's Health Project are too worrried about what normal men do.

Gay men are normal.
The point remains (aside form the fact you presented un referenced claims) is that to claim gay men are promiscuous you need to show that by presenting actual studies comparing gay men to straight men.

 

[ArgentBear]

Thankyou to everyone who is giving my remarks additional coverage by posting them again and again. Much appreciated.

Now if only your remarks were factual…

 

[ArgentBear]

An exhaustive 1978 Kinsey Institute study of homosexuality showed that 28 per cent of homosexual males had sexual encounters with 1,000 or more males. And 79 per cent said more than half of their sex partners were strangers. Only one per cent of sexually active men had fewer than five lifetime partners.

The study concludes, “Little credence can be given to the supposition that homosexual men’s ‘promiscuity’ has been overestimated . . . Almost half of the white homosexual males said that they had at least 500 different sexual partners during the course of their homosexual careers.”[ii]

Another unreferenced “study” what is the study’s name? who are the authors? What peer review did it go through? Where was it published.
My net research shows nothing like this “study” ever taking place so again we are left with the assumption that what you are presenting is another misrepresentation.

A 1982 study of AIDS victims by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control found that eleven hundred sexual partners was about average, with some reporting as many as twenty thousand partners.[iii] One homosexual reported, “I believe my estimate of 4,000 sex partners to be very accurate. I have been actively gay since I was 13 (thirty-one years ago). An average of two or three new partners per week is not excessive; especially when one considers that I will have ten to twelve partners during one night at the baths.”[iv]

A secondary reference from a pro-discrimination author ignoring original source. Again one can only assume that the original source said nothing like the claims being attributed to it.

 

[Steezie]

I don't think the Advocate or the Homosexual Men's Health Project are too worrried about what normal men do.

I'm not asking them, I'm asking YOU

 

[Jedah]

Hey everyone look at me! Due to my lack of ability to understand morality on my own I have decided to obey a superstitious law because it gives me conviction! I have filled the gap in my philosophical understanding with religion! This religion states that X is evil and I am Y! Therefore I am a good person and all you X's out there are evildoers! Wow this objective morality is great, I can sit on a high horse and let myself believe I am a good person even though I don't even know what "good' means! Yay!

cool story brah.

 

[marksman007]

Bell and Weinberg found that 28 per cent of white homosexual males claimed 1,000 or more partners, while 84 per cent claimed 50 or more partners over the course of a lifetime. They found that the average homosexual had 550 different sexual partners.http://www.christianforums.com/t7404631-9/#_edn1

Thomas Schmidt has meticulously gone through all of the available evidence on this subject. At the time of writing (1995) he had some of the best and most recent data available about the health risks of homosexuality. The information he used was taken only from primary, not secondary, sources. And it all came from secular, scholarly sources, “virtually all of which is either neutral or affirming of homosexuality”.[ii] This is how he summarises the issue: “Promiscuity among homosexual men is not a mere stereotype, and it is not merely the majority experience - it is virtually the only experience. . . . Tragically, lifelong faithfulness is almost nonexistent in the homosexual experience”.[iii]

http://www.christianforums.com/t7404631-9/#_ednref1 Alan Bell and Martin Weinberg, Homosexualities: A Study of Diversity Among Men and Women. New York: Simon and Schuster, 1978, pp 85, 86, 308, 312.

[ii] Thomas Schmidt, Straight & Narrow: Compassion & Clarity in the Homosexuality Debate. Downers Grove, Illinois: InterVarsity Press, 1995, p. 101.

[iii] Ibid., p. 108.

 

[marksman007]

The reasons people thought Harry Hay to be crazy may be gleaned from some of Harry Hay's remarks at events associated with or run by NAMBLA, the North American Man/Body Love Association. The professed end of NAMBLA is, according to their website, "to end the extreme oppression of men and boys in mutually consensual relationships." They oppose age-of-consent laws so that pedophilia would become accepted and legal.

In his remarks on February 22, 1983, at New York University, Harry Hay accounts his statutory rape, at fourteen years of age, by a homosexual man twenty-five years old. He thanks this man for the experience, saying that the boy he was at fourteen "needed to know best of all what only another gay man could show him and tell him."

Furthermore, this is apparently an experience he recommends for many children, as his remarks make very clear: "Because if the parents and friends of gays are truly friends of gays, they would know from their gay kids that the relationship with an older man is precisely what thirteen-, fourteen-, and fifteen-year-old kids need more than anything else in the world. And they would be welcoming this, and welcoming the opportunity for young gay kids to have the kind of experience that they would need."

Harry Hay made similar comments in San Francisco, October 7, 1984, during a public forum on the topic "Man/Boy Love and Sexual Liberation." Among his comments is this remark: "I think that the twelve-year-old, thirteen-year-old boy approaching puberty knows very well that there are things about himself that he needs to find out, that he needs to discover, and he wants very much to reach out and find someone who will give this to him."

LifeSite News.

 

[ArgentBear]

Bell and Weinberg found that 28 per cent of white homosexual males claimed 1,000 or more partners, while 84 per cent claimed 50 or more partners over the course of a lifetime. They found that the average homosexual had 550 different sexual partners.

The failings that Bell and Weinberg have stated about their research has already been presented. Reposting bad data doesn’t make that bad data any better

Thomas Schmidt has meticulously gone through all of the available evidence on this subject. At the time of writing (1995) he had some of the best and most recent data available about the health risks of homosexuality. The information he used was taken only from primary, not secondary, sources. And it all came from secular, scholarly sources, “virtually all of which is either neutral or affirming of homosexuality”.[ii] This is how he summarises the issue: “Promiscuity among homosexual men is not a mere stereotype, and it is not merely the majority experience - it is virtually the only experience. . . . Tragically, lifelong faithfulness is almost nonexistent in the homosexual experience”.[iii]

Alan Bell and Martin Weinberg, Homosexualities: A Study of Diversity Among Men and Women. New York: Simon and Schuster, 1978, pp 85, 86, 308, 312.

[ii] Thomas Schmidt, Straight & Narrow: Compassion & Clarity in the Homosexuality Debate. Downers Grove, Illinois: InterVarsity Press, 1995, p. 101.

[iii] Ibid., p. 108.

A rehashing of earlier works by people like Tim Dailey. Which has been show to misrepresent of research and data in eight of ten of the claims. Schmidt is himself an individual who has stated his personal bias on the topic.

 

[ArgentBear]

The reasons people thought Harry Hay to be crazy may be gleaned from some of Harry Hay's remarks at events associated with or run by NAMBLA, the North American Man/Body Love Association. The professed end of NAMBLA is, according to their website, "to end the extreme oppression of men and boys in mutually consensual relationships." They oppose age-of-consent laws so that pedophilia would become accepted and legal.

In his remarks on February 22, 1983, at New York University, Harry Hay accounts his statutory rape, at fourteen years of age, by a homosexual man twenty-five years old. He thanks this man for the experience, saying that the boy he was at fourteen "needed to know best of all what only another gay man could show him and tell him."

Furthermore, this is apparently an experience he recommends for many children, as his remarks make very clear: "Because if the parents and friends of gays are truly friends of gays, they would know from their gay kids that the relationship with an older man is precisely what thirteen-, fourteen-, and fifteen-year-old kids need more than anything else in the world. And they would be welcoming this, and welcoming the opportunity for young gay kids to have the kind of experience that they would need."

Harry Hay made similar comments in San Francisco, October 7, 1984, during a public forum on the topic "Man/Boy Love and Sexual Liberation." Among his comments is this remark: "I think that the twelve-year-old, thirteen-year-old boy approaching puberty knows very well that there are things about himself that he needs to find out, that he needs to discover, and he wants very much to reach out and find someone who will give this to him."

LifeSite News.

More undocumented claims.

 

[marksman007]

But it can be rightly asked, has not the AIDS epidemic slowed down homosexual promiscuity rates? Yes it has, but only marginally. An article in the March 1987 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association reports that both heterosexuals and homosexuals reduced their sexual contact due to fear of AIDS, but that homosexuals continued to have significantly more partners on average than the heterosexuals did.http://www.christianforums.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=53168064#_edn1

Indeed, a recent study of the sexual profiles of 2,583 older homosexuals published in Journal of Sex Research found that only 2.7 percent claimed to have had sex with one partner only. It also found that homosexual men had a mean lifetime number of 251 partners.[ii]

More revealing, however, is this quote from a Los Angeles-based psychologist who counsels gay men, as recorded in an April 1994 issue of a homosexual magazine: “Gay men are discovering new ways of being intimate with another man without excluding the possibility of outside erotic experiences . . . They’re relaxing a bit about what seems like a normal and healthy interest in sex outside relationships, after having been shamed in the early days of AIDS. With all the talk about legalising marriage for gays, there’s an assumption in the minds of most people I talk to that only rarely does that legalization include monogamy.”[iii]

In the same issue of the magazine, a gay couple spoke about how having outside affairs was the key to their relationship. Said one of the partners: “Pretty early on we had the monogamy discussion. I felt I wanted to be with him, but the idea of having sex with only one person was a little daunting. I mean, I was a real [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth], and I didn’t want to give that up.”[iv]

http://www.christianforums.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=53168064#_ednref1 San Francisco Men’s Health Study, Journal of the American Medical Association, vol. 3 no. 257, Jan 16, 1987, p 323.

[ii] Paul Van de Ven, et. al., “A comparative demographic and sexual profile of older homosexually active men,” Journal of Sex Research, 34, 1997, p. 354.

[iii] Cited in Lambda Report, July 1994, p 11.

[iv] Ibid.

 

[marksman007]

Thanks everyone for doing repeat postings of my material. Much appreciated.

 

[Maren]

Thanks everyone for doing repeat postings of my material. Much appreciated.

No problem, we don't have any issue with repeating how you continue to use biased sources that manipulate and falsify data. It would seem like you wouldn't be so proud of what appears to be false witness -- based on your continual uses of misused and falsified information -- I always thought that was a sin (not to mention against one of the Ten Commandments).

 

[Wedjat]

So what if there was a gay person (and there are far more than one, but just for the sake of argument) treated relationships exactly the same way as most people, had only a few partners, practiced safe sex, was in a monogamous relationship, didn't "flaunt" their sexuality, and was otherwise in a generally healthy relationship?
This is still wrong?

 

[ArgentBear]

But it can be rightly asked, has not the AIDS epidemic slowed down homosexual promiscuity rates? Yes it has, but only marginally.

You keep talking about how gay men are promiscuous compared to straight men…but you have yet to provide actual evidence of this

An article in the March 1987 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association reports that both heterosexuals and homosexuals reduced their sexual contact due to fear of AIDS, but that homosexuals continued to have significantly more partners on average than the heterosexuals did.

If you are going to make false statements about a study you shouldn’t choose a study that is so readily available on the web. Winklestein et al make no claims about promiscuity of homosexual or heterosexual men

Indeed, a recent study of the sexual profiles of 2,583 older homosexuals published in Journal of Sex Research found that only 2.7 percent claimed to have had sex with one partner only. It also found that homosexual men had a mean lifetime number of 251 partners.

You previously posted this false statement about Van de Ven and you wer confronted with the actual findings from his study. Repeating false witness does not make it true.

You previously posted this false statement about Van de Ven and you were confronted with the actual findings from his study. Repeating false witness does not make it true.

The truth: Van de Ven found that 28.5% of the gay men studied had one sexual partner
The mean number of life time sexual partners for the men in the Van De Ven study was 4.3

More revealing, however, is this quote from a Los Angeles-based psychologist who counsels gay men, as recorded in an April 1994 issue of a homosexual magazine: “Gay men are discovering new ways of being intimate with another man without excluding the possibility of outside erotic experiences . . . They’re relaxing a bit about what seems like a normal and healthy interest in sex outside relationships, after having been shamed in the early days of AIDS. With all the talk about legalising marriage for gays, there’s an assumption in the minds of most people I talk to that only rarely does that legalization include monogamy.”[iii]

Another unnamed source. And a reference that includes the wrong date. Trying to hide something?

 

[ArgentBear]

Thanks everyone for doing repeat postings of my material. Much appreciated.

As long as you post false statements or continue to misrepresent the legitimate research we will continue to present the truth

 

[Beanieboy]

An exhaustive 1978 Kinsey Institute study of homosexuality showed that 28 per cent of homosexual males had sexual encounters with 1,000 or more males. And 79 per cent said more than half of their sex partners were strangers. Only one per cent of sexually active men had fewer than five lifetime partners.http://www.christianforums.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=53161424#_edn1

The study concludes, “Little credence can be given to the supposition that homosexual men’s ‘promiscuity’ has been overestimated . . . Almost half of the white homosexual males said that they had at least 500 different sexual partners during the course of their homosexual careers.”[ii]

A 1982 study of AIDS victims by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control found that eleven hundred sexual partners was about average, with some reporting as many as twenty thousand partners.[iii] One homosexual reported, “I believe my estimate of 4,000 sex partners to be very accurate. I have been actively gay since I was 13 (thirty-one years ago). An average of two or three new partners per week is not excessive; especially when one considers that I will have ten to twelve partners during one night at the baths.”[iv]

http://www.christianforums.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=53161424#_ednref1 Ibid.

[ii] Ibid.

[iii] Cited in Roger Magnuson, Are Gay Rights Right?, p 43.

[iv] Karla Jay and Allen Young, The Gay Report. New York: Summit, 1979, p 250.

Yes, and Pitbull sings, Room Service:
Lyrics (that are printable)
I want everybody to stop what they're doing. Now if you know you're with somebody you're gonna take the hotel room tonight, make some noise...
Meet me at the hotel room [x4]


Forget about your boyfriend and meet me at the hotel room, you can bring your girlfriends and meet me at the hotel room. [x2]
We at the hotel, motel, holiday inn. [x4]

The song is about guys singing about how they are going to be at the hotel room, for girls to come buy, leave their boyfriends, bring their girlfriends, get naked and have sex.

And this is on Top 10 radio.

Heterosexual men are far from virginal, so I don't even see the point of your statistic. Guys in my college dorm picked up girls at parties. I see little difference between having sex with a stranger, and one that you just met and never plan to call again. When heterosexual men are promiscuous, they are called things of honor: casanova, lady's man, stud, stallion, pimp daddy, etc. They generally brag about how many women they have slept with as a sign of how manly they are.

Are you honestly unaware of that?

Not only that, but those who want marry would make their marriages monogamous, and yet, my guess is that you fight against that as well?

 

[allhart]

*deep breath*

Not all homosexuals are promiscuous or drug abusers. If a man is in a monogamous relationship, and he's a faithful Christian, I don't think there'd be any consequences more harmful than less rewards in the afterlife. Just my opinion

Intent is prior to content.

Let me ask you this question my friend...... Can you know or understand what you read without an introduction to a book? Can you know or understand what you read without knowing the author?
Before you can understand morality of the Bible you have to know the author of the Bible, God! As Christians we aren't to define people by their brokenness or to judge , but if we find our-selfs outside the fence of God's will. What is his family to do? Put us out, right? We are to be loving, but telling your right when you are wrong does more harm than good. Jesus told people how it was that's why the Pharisees had Him crucified. All ideas and actions have consequences. For the here and the now and the here after, everything is spiritual.

The one thing we all have in-common is a self image problem. We are all guilty! Just some hide it better than others. The one that wrote the OP remember that the one that judges is judged with the same intensity.....You are to rasp. We "All" are living under God's Great Grace, for now people.

 

[Steezie]

Intent is prior to content.

Let me ask you this question my friend...... Can you know or understand what you read without an introduction to a book? Can you know or understand what you read without knowing the author?
Before you can understand morality of the Bible you have to know the author of the Bible, God! As Christians we aren't to define people by their brokenness or to judge , but if we find our-selfs outside the fence of God's will. What is his family to do? Put us out, right? We are to be loving, but telling your right when you are wrong does more harm than good. Jesus told people how it was that's why the Pharisees had Him crucified. All ideas and actions have consequences. For the here and the now and the here after, everything is spiritual.

The one thing we all have in-common is a self image problem. We are all guilty! Just some hide it better than others. The one that wrote the OP remember that the one that judges is judged with the same intensity.....You are to rasp. We "All" are living under God's Great Grace, for now people.

Ok...and?

 

[DayusXMakina]

I dunno all what the OP said originally, but being a man of a homosexual nature myself, I cannot rightly approve of the way he posted it. Also, the title of the thread itself is an example of the logical fallacy Non Sequitur, I believe (but correct me if I am indeed wrong).

Just because this Bible book says something bad about homosexuals does not automatically make it wrong, in my eyes. I apologize if this offends anyone, but I could honestly care less what that book says. However, please keep in mind that's how I feel and I do not intend to offend anyone.

Also, really, I'm pretty sure we "evil" homosexuals have heard this Straw Man argument before.