Homosexuality in Military

[Bethesda]

Leap

1 Cor 5.9-13
I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people, not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”

You being convoluted doesn't make this any more complicated than it is. It is all too clear. You consider that those non-believers need permission from us to live sinful lives, you're great arrogance and imposition into their lives is part of the problem. But I wont give many more opportunities to be more confused, the scripture is clear.

Yes that's pretty clear

 

[Leap]

I can't see where the Bible says we witness to someone once or 2 times or 5 times or whatever and if they still are not interested then move on.

So you are not familiar with the concepts of "come out of them" and "kick the dust from your shoes"?

I think, with respect, that you have a rose tinted view of British society in the past

Not at all. Every age has its problems. The key problem of the modern age is the spreading chaos wrought by individualism and relativism, as society dissolves into atomism.

You consider that those non-believers need permission from us to live sinful lives, you're great arrogance and imposition into their lives is part of the problem. But I wont give many more opportunities to be more confused, the scripture is clear.

We cannot give them permission to live sinful lives, so what on earth on you on about? We should not though accept people who are unrepentantly sinful, because our accepting of such implies that their behaviour is acceptable (when it is not).

A Christian society should not accept or accept the promotion of non-Christian culture within its borders. To allow those things would be to suggest that relativism is mertitworthy, when it is not.

 

[briareos]

Permission is simply not ours to give, that implies that authority exists in us concerning them and it does not. Further more as Paul said... it is simply impractical. Paul didn't agree with you.

 

[SonOfTheWest]

Various military branches worldwide are secular organizations(well...the with exceptions of course ) and thus should not be beholden to religious law. So there is no reason to restrict or otherwise curtail the freedoms of homosexuals in joining the military or forcing them to hide their sexual orientation.

 

[Desk trauma]

Sodomy should be treated the same way in society as idolatry, thievery, covetousness, drunkeness, swindling, abortion, fornication and divorce for reasons other than adultery should be treated. In other words such people should be excluded until and unless they repent of their sin (just as all of us should).

How does one go about finding out if a prospective military recruit, or current member of the military, is too covetous to serve?

 

[briareos]

I made a post titled "effects of repeal of DADT" on the U.S Army's official military forum for open discussion asking for opinions on its effect, that was a few days ago.

So far the sentiment is that there was no change other than the first lesbian General getting pinned shortly afterward. But it's the weekend, we will see what next weeks people think.

 

[briareos]

Oh and short story that went like this

"

[FONT=Arial, Verdana, Tahoma, Helvetica]A group of "[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Verdana, Tahoma, Helvetica]gay[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Verdana, Tahoma, Helvetica]" Soldiers overran a military post in Wyoming. They threw projectiles at all the
" [/FONT]straight[FONT=Arial, Verdana, Tahoma, Helvetica] " Soldiers. Luckily they were soft, cute and nonthreatening projectiles."[/FONT]​

 

[Leap]

How does one go about finding out if a prospective military recruit, or current member of the military, is too covetous to serve?

The same way humans convict anyone of anything...you presume innocence until given evidence of guilt.

 

[Bethesda]

So you are not familiar with the concepts of "come out of them" and "kick the dust from your shoes"?

So how many chances do you claim that God gives people in terms of their response to the Gospel - I think many of us here would not be here if God had not used others to persist with us. Your profile says became a Christian kicking and screaming so surely you know that God works over long periods for some and very quickly in others

A Christian society should not accept or accept the promotion of non-Christian culture within its borders. To allow those things would be to suggest that relativism is mertitworthy, when it is not

As said before where do you get the idea that this is a Christian society - if you talking about an ideal world but given that we live in a fallen world the only way to implement what you want would by some kind of Christian Taliban with presumably all the the Jews, Muslims and presumably those Christian denominations you don't agree with being given a chance to repent and if not then being deported or something (given that Christians are sadly a minority in this country now I cannot anyway see how we can send the majority to Coventry (or anywhere else)

 

[Bethesda]

The same way humans convict anyone of anything...you presume innocence until given evidence of guilt.

You are going to need a mighty big religious police force to run the theocratic dictatorship that the above would imply and require.
this has all by the way got off the topic of whether gay men and women can serve openly in the forces in the views of people here and the consequences thereof - i take it that your view and that of some others here, taken to its logical conclusion, is not just that they shouldn't but neither should anyone who is not a Christian (since as I said my experience - having been in the forces - is that many of those who are quick to show bigotry on that issue are the same ones who are out boozing every night and have a g/f in every garrison town (and are married to boot) - so are they any less sinners?

 

[Desk trauma]

Leap:

Going back to your original post you wish to exclude from military service:

Non-married people who are sexually active.
Non-Christians.
People who consume alcohol.
Women who have had abortions.
People who have had a divorce.
People who are covetous.

Exactly how do you prepose to meet recruitment goals with those kind of restrictions? That question would be all the more urgently in need of an answer if you preposed that all those in military currently who do not meet those standards be drummed out.

 

[Bethesda]

Leap:

Going back to your original post you wish to exclude from military service:

Non-married people who are sexually active.
Non-Christians.
People who consume alcohol.
Women who have had abortions.
People who have had a divorce.
People who are covetous.

Exactly how do you prepose to meet recruitment goals with those kind of restrictions? That question would be all the more urgently in need of an answer if you preposed that all those in military currently who do not meet those standards be drummed out.

I think that whilst we all have a right to express our views (and it would be a pretty pointless forum if such rights were restricted to certain categories or if everyone agreed with each other), I do suspect that perhaps Leap has not actually been in the forces to know what they are like. Those of us who are Christians who have worn a uniform of one kind or another would of course wish and pray that everyone was a Christian (as all Christians would ) and support the work of SASRA and the like, but historically the military has never been an area with large numbers in it, even when you go to the supposedly godly armies of the 1650s such as the the Army of the Solemn League and Covenant Govt in Scotland or the New Model Army under Cromwell (the latter certainly was hotbed of politics and different sects etc but by no means a unified force under one denominational view). Personally too I have some moral qualms about the way that captured Irish troops were dealt with in the ECW with them being strung up due to being RC and Irish.

 

[Leap]

So how many chances do you claim that God gives people in terms of their response to the Gospel - I think many of us here would not be here if God had not used others to persist with us. Your profile says became a Christian kicking and screaming so surely you know that God works over long periods for some and very quickly in others

In a society run as a Christian society, such would not have occured as we would not be born in a situation of ambiguity largely devoid of Christianity.

As said before where do you get the idea that this is a Christian society

I don't.

It isn't.

I am speaking of how it should be. How society should be Christian and how a Christian society would/should operate. I have no interest in telling secularists how to be secular - telling sinners how to sin is a daft idea.

... Christian Taliban ...

Christ's authority is unlimited, it reaches into every area of our lives, and the Church is Christ on earth. Liberals do not grasp what that means in practice, but instead use muslim monsters to throw mud at this situation...which makes them truly ironic "Christians". Christendome is neither Sharia nor Taliban.

 

[IanCG]

Christ's authority is unlimited, it reaches into every area of our lives, and the Church is Christ on earth. Liberals do not grasp what that means in practice, but instead use muslim monsters to throw mud at this situation...which makes them truly ironic "Christians". Christendome is neither Sharia nor Taliban.

What you want is exactly what the Taliban want, just with a different rulebook.

 

[GNJ]

...Move by the congress? Are you talking about the removal of Don't Ask Don't Tell or what?

There have always, always been homosexuals serving in the military, it's just that recently they've been able to serve as openly gay. This doesn't really change anything.

 

[Leap]

What you want is exactly what the Taliban want, just with a different rulebook.

What are you on about? The Taliban's values are nothing to do with Christianity - in Islam, for example, women are second class citizens but we are all one in Christ (regardless of gender)....which is probably why Christianity has never required women to go around dressed as Halloween ghosts. Do you think that "taliban" is somehow the antonym of "liberal", as if anything that isnt liberal is automatically "taliban"?

The Taliban want a society ruled by religious law, yes, and in that there is a commonality with Christendom, but the values in such are in no way comparable. What you are doing is using the latest cheap and lazy buzzword handed out by the liberal intelligensia without realising that not all religious rule must then mean the same things as Sharia. If you think that all forms of "Theocracy" (for want of a better word) would look like the Taliban, you need to go back to school and learn about the differences between religions rather than parroting pro-licentious tabloid ignorance that automatically seeks to demonise (as "Taliban") anything that would counter its depravity.

 

[briareos]

Well Jesus, Paul, Peter... those guys never tried to erect a Christian ran society and they were our example.

 

[Leap]

Well Jesus, Paul, Peter... those guys never tried to erect a Christian ran society and they were our example.

You are mistaken. They set the ball rolling for Christendom to arise, with Jesus granted all authority on earth and the Church being his body on earth.

 

[Desk trauma]

That a Christian theocracy would be less harsh towards women then an Islamic one does not change its tyrannical nature.

 

[Leap]

That a Christian theocracy would be less harsh towards women then an Islamic one does not change its tyrannical nature.

God will one day judge all, and punish without mercy, with no part of our life beyond his reach. Does that, in your view, make God a tyrant too?