Homosexuality in Military

[Shane R]

The exception is if the member that contracts HIV is heterosexual, for instance someone who hires a prostitute on a port call in Singapore or Thailand. Then they are separated for violations of moral turpitude. Obviously, this makes homosexuals a priviledged class.

 

[AtheistVet]

The exception is if the member that contracts HIV is heterosexual, for instance someone who hires a prostitute on a port call in Singapore or Thailand. Then they are separated for violations of moral turpitude. Obviously, this makes homosexuals a priviledged class.

Um, how?

What does a military member contracting HIV prostitute have ANYTHING to do with a gay military person serving openly?

You're aware that lesbians have the lowest rate of HIV transmission, right? By your logic, should we kick out everyone but lesbians?

 

[briareos]

The exception is if the member that contracts HIV is heterosexual, for instance someone who hires a prostitute on a port call in Singapore or Thailand. Then they are separated for violations of moral turpitude. Obviously, this makes homosexuals a priviledged class.

So you are saying that the military allows homosexuals to get aids from prostitutes but not Heterosexuals?

 

[SoulBap6]

I see that there are differences of opinion on service and morality. there is a big difference in Religious and Non-religious people opinions.

I have read what has been said up to this point. when it comes to sex period, HIV is still a killer in all sexual activities, The gay community has a higher rate of HIV even though there population is smaller.

The Military reflects are society and the way the trends are going. Mandating tolerance, Race relations, and now Homosexuality and intolerance when the trend goes against society and its polices of Faith, religion, and Church.

Atheist do not believe in God period, and so sexual orientation means little or nothing. There are those that claim to be Christian and Homosexual, which is a real contradiction to the Bible, they would come under the Atheism rather than Christianity. According to the Christian Bible.

When I was in the Military if you were Caught having sodomy it was a Courtmartial automaticly UCMJ Action today it will take time to amend the rules, but with the trend in society that will change.

Will it be a Good Change as I asked when I started this Thread, and will it make the Military a better fighting Machine, or will in time it turn as Military Units as in the Middle east where it does not matter about sex or anything.

 

[Non sequitur]

I see that there are differences of opinion on service and morality. there is a big difference in Religious and Non-religious people opinions.

I have read what has been said up to this point. when it comes to sex period, HIV is still a killer in all sexual activities, The gay community has a higher rate of HIV even though there population is smaller.

The Military reflects are society and the way the trends are going. Mandating tolerance, Race relations, and now Homosexuality and intolerance when the trend goes against society and its polices of Faith, religion, and Church.

Atheist do not believe in God period, and so sexual orientation means little or nothing. There are those that claim to be Christian and Homosexual, which is a real contradiction to the Bible, they would come under the Atheism rather than Christianity. According to the Christian Bible.

When I was in the Military if you were Caught having sodomy it was a Courtmartial automaticly UCMJ Action today it will take time to amend the rules, but with the trend in society that will change.

Will it be a Good Change as I asked when I started this Thread, and will it make the Military a better fighting Machine, or will in time it turn as Military Units as in the Middle east where it does not matter about sex or anything.

Your original question(s) wasn't that, but I suppose that could evolve from it.

Societies are always changing. When working as a unit, there are always going to differences, between people.

Otherwise, we'd have the 25th White Male Division's, the 312th Homosexual Women Division's and the 128th Muslim-American Division's.

Tolerance will have no choice, but to be a good change. It won't work, collectively, otherwise.

 

[briareos]

Sodomy being punishable under the UCMJ has already been done away with. It happened in December.

Because I can't find anything except radical religious beliefs supporting the notion of prohibiting homosexuals or atheists from the military... I can't agree with prohibiting them.

 

[keith99]

Your original question(s) wasn't that, but I suppose that could evolve from it.

Societies are always changing. When working as a unit, there are always going to differences, between people.

Otherwise, we'd have the 25th White Male Division's, the 312th Homosexual Women Division's and the 128th Muslim-American Division's.

Tolerance will have no choice, but to be a good change. It won't work, collectively, otherwise.

Well considering that 2 of the most highly respecting units in hte history of warfare were gay (or perhaps bi) I'd be fine with all gay units.

Strict size of 300 members of course. (Think Thebes and Sparta).

 

[pazena]

go on, that there are debates in the U.S.? In Spain these discussions do not exist, no group or left or right arises this. In Spain it is illegal to discriminate against anyone for any reason, the constitution and laws are very strict with it, in fact the Supreme Court declared as terrorism, incitement or advocacy of discrimination, matching these groups to the Nazis. In the Spanish army everyone is treated equally, and the entrance exams are the same for everyone. It is also true that Spain is a country in this more tolerant, as the governmen approved cuendo matrimnoio homosexual, 65% were in favor, and even popluar Party voters are favorable.

 

[OnwardChristianSoldier]

I think this is bad for the military, esspecially the comabt units. None of the warriors I know are Ok with this. Especially when you WILL run into the situation of a leader having a relationship with a subordinate and showing them favoritism. This already happens REGULARLY with male/female relationships and it destroys the functioning of a unit.

 

[Bethesda]

Background on me: U.S. Marine Corps 68-74, Vietnam combat veteran and lay chaplain.

This change has had a huge ripple effect once implemented. I do know two military chaplains who's careers hinge on whether they will be required to perform weddings for same-sex persons. The other problem comes up when two people want to serve together, share the same base housing as heterosexual couples and also want to adopt children.

Sections of the UCMJ have been stricken or re-written so as to allow same-sex physical contact (sexual activity) without being prosecuted.

So, once again, we are changing the rules to accommodate a small percentage of the population for reasons of political correctness. My opinion is that it should have been left the way it was. DADT wasn't perfect but, it was in place for a reason. I strongly feel that in the long-term, it will have a very negative effect on unit cohesion and cooperation. One chaplain friend said, "the devil is in all the details" and then went on to say, "the devil is in it all...".

I believe satan is using this small minority of sinful people to undermine nearly every area of life in our country. Political correctness has destroyed the lines between 'right and wrong'. If you are a Christian, you can certainly love the sinner and hate their sin. But, that is not what I am seeing in this thread. What I am seeing is a PC tolerance that is like, yeah, I'll be your friend because Jesus says I should love you but, I will also tolerate your bad behavior (sin) in and among those I care about and work with because the 'rules' require me to do so. If that isn't hypocritical then I have missed the definition. This will create a serious problem for any military person in a leadership position who is also a committed Christian.

Sure, there are a lot of homosexuals who claim to be Christians and simply ignore the Bible passages that condemn that activity. Do you think they are truly 'saved'? Do you think God is going to buy into the PC attitudes we are forming and say that these people can enter the kingdom anyway? I don't think so. Every person who commits acts that are deemed 'homosexual' are certainly sinners. They cannot be saved until they confess and repent of those sins, changing their lifestyles. If they claim to be saved, they are liars and condemn themselves even further.

I don't know who it was that said that the U.S. was not a "Christian" nation but, are seriously lacking in historical education! That was the very basis for this nation being established! And, out military was included in that regard from the start. What has happened is that over the years, we have drifted away from those roots, marginalized God and allowed 'tolerance' and political correctness to undermine our morals and values. Homosexuals serving openly in our military is just one more indication of our 'fall from grace' as a nation and I do believe we are going to pay for it and in some respects, we already are.

As long as homosexuals live in their sinful lifestyle, they are not saved. As long as we true Christians remain silent or water down the message the Bible gives us then we are condoning that activity and we will also be held accountable for enabling Satan to claim those souls....

Yes, we love all people and will accommodate their confession and repentance to bring them into the kingdom. We will mentor and teach them the Truth and give them to tools to resist the devil and build a life of holiness so they can be presentable to God as pure. All of this regardless of their past since Jesus forgives their sin and it is remembered no more. But, intolerance of sin is mandatory for the true Christian, without exception.

Paul

'This will create a serious problem for any military person in a leadership position who is also a committed Christian.'

Surely taking that position then the military (and esp Christians in the military) should be taking all possible steps to stop any sexual activity at all outside of marriage amongst their troops, as of course to God is adultery any less of a sin than active homosexuality? There seems a tendency in some evangelical groups to make homosexuality the sin above all other sins - surely greed, corruption, selfishness, drugs and promiscuity (all a corollary of a falling away in morals - though for instance the 19th century with slavery could hardly be held up as a golden age of morality) are what is undermining America?

 

[Bethesda]

No because homosexuality goes against common decency and morals, and especially Christian teachings. I support an ask and tell policy in the military and banning sodomy in the entire country.

And presumably imprisoning those who refuse to answer etc. How woudl the state deal with those who break the ban - kill them? imprison them (prison's record on this subject isn't encouraging!). I'd be seriously worried about anyone who wanted to punish gay people as to them having some rather weird psycho-sexual agenda of their own The only thing worse than a police state would be police state run by those who claim to be Christians

 

[pgp_protector]

And presumably imprisoning those who refuse to answer etc. How woudl the state deal with those who break the ban - kill them? imprison them (prison's record on this subject isn't encouraging!). I'd be seriously worried about anyone who wanted to punish gay people as to them having some rather weird psycho-sexual agenda of their own The only thing worse than a police state would be police state run by those who claim to be Christians

 

[Bethesda]

America has always been a Christian country and has always had a Christian military up until recently. As a proud Christian, I refuse to surrender my country to those who despise God and Christianity and want to ruin America's Christian cultures, heritage, and traditions.

presumably you wouldn't allow Muslims to serve, agnostics, atheists or anyone who has a girlfriend unless you could be sure that "nothing was going on". Is homosexuality in the military a bigger sin than heterosexual promiscuity (and if you believe that heterosexual soldiers never got up to anything I am afraid you are living in fantasy land - try reading about the US Army in WW1, WW2 or Vietnam (or even further back to the ACW).

 

[Bethesda]

Great post! Agreed 100%.

maybe this is a US thing - there were a number of well known British soldiers of impeccable courage (Brig Mike Calvert to name one) who were obviously homosexuals (coming from our long history of private schools not suprising) and many others who like other servicemen lost their lives fighting for their country - its quite disrespectful to imply that their sacrifices count for nothing whilst those of soldiers who might have a g/f in every town do.

 

[Bethesda]

I'm not saying it should be mandated, but we should always place Christian morals and values everywhere in our society as we have in the past. I don't think we should use our military for anything other then defending America.

Though not in the way they were placed in the pre Civil War South with people using God's Word to justify the subjugation of people of one colour by another.

 

[Bethesda]

seems that from some of the comments here, some folk would consider the lesbian nurse coming in as a crew member of a MERT helicopter in Helmand to casevac some wounded squaddie (and in the UK there's a long tradition of many female members of the medical corps and nursing services in all 3 arms being those who drive on the other side of the road)to be a disgrace to her uniform in comparison to the pilot who might (as a pilot and therefore popular with the ladies) have sex with a different girl every weekend. Some stances here would in effect be that only Christians should be in the forces (and then what about denominations - no Catholics etc?). I worked with an ex RAF girl who was a lesbian and she was head and shoulders above all the men in the office (not because of her sexuality but because she was an excellent diligent worker) - but that didn't stop them all sniping and commenting about her behind her back due to her sexuality and not her work (and yet most of them would chase anything with a skirt on)

 

[briareos]

I don't think anyone in the actual U.S Military really cares about this except for a few crazy people... I've seen and heard of 0.00 problems from this and I show up for accountability every day. I participate in probably the biggest U.S Army discussion forum on the web and this topic has never been a big issue or of much interest that I can remember in the last several years.

 

[SoulBap6]

AtheistVet
Good, so you don't think homosexuals should be barred from serving.

I don't think homosexuals should be allowed to serve period in fact I have seen many get discharged for homosexuality. Since the homosexual community has filed so many law suites that has jamed the court system that the Government caved in to all of this idea, along with many Homosexuals that are in places of the federal Court system. Liberials, atheist, agonistics and Homosexuals Don't believe in God any way and have no objections to any kind of Marriage, sexual relation or belief system.

The values and standards are not the same. The Military has had a Long tradition of Honor and respect in God we trust was on the money that we spent, many of the places in Washington DC and the monuments reflected are Christian Hertiage, but now we have all this being changed by a bunch of homosexuals, Atheist and Liberals you may think this is fine but it does not fly with me , I see it as the beginning of the end for America, and as for are Military I can't see how this will improve our Military and unit integrity.

I served the United States Army for 45 years honorably, when I heard about Homosexuals being able to serve openly in the Military, I could not believe what I was hearing? the UCMJ I also heard that was being changed to allow open Homosexuality. I was outraged I thought who would do this to the Military? Then I read about the ACLU, I realized that this government had lost there Minds, and common sense.

The Military will suffer to find people that will want to serve.

 

[pgp_protector]

No negative impacts from repeal of 'don't ask, don't tell,' study reveals - U.S. News

 

[Leap]

Sodomy should be treated the same way in society as idolatry, thievery, covetousness, drunkeness, swindling, abortion, fornication and divorce for reasons other than adultery should be treated. In other words such people should be excluded until and unless they repent of their sin (just as all of us should).