Homosexuality - Here's how I look at it

[TheFathersDaughter]

I'm trying to tell you that you don't have everything figured out like I didn't when I was 16. Especially with such a contraversial issue such as homosexuality and the manipulative support our culture has for sin.

As if I listen to culture. The last movie I've seen was Narnia. And ones sexuality is a personal issue, not a controversial issue. It's only a controversial issue for the church. And after spending a year pray and reading into the Bible and the seperate translations, not to mention my own feelings, it seems to me that if homosexuality IS a sin, it must be a lesser sin because God isn't telling me anything different.

 

[ReformedChapin]

As if I listen to culture. The last movie I've seen was Narnia. And ones sexuality is a personal issue, not a controversial issue. It's only a controversial issue for the church. And after spending a year pray and reading into the Bible and the seperate translations, not to mention my own feelings, it seems to me that if homosexuality IS a sin, it must be a lesser sin because God isn't telling me anything different.

Subjective experiences mean nothing good biblical scholarship does. I wonder how much studying you actually did especially with what the church fathers said about homosexuality.

 

[Nostromadu]

Subjective experiences mean nothing good biblical scholarship does. I wonder how much studying you actually did especially with what the church fathers said about homosexuality.

Are the church fathers God? The only word of God is the bible. I don't put much stock in other humans, especially if they claim to be speaking for God.

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

Subjective experiences mean nothing good biblical scholarship does. I wonder how much studying you actually did especially with what the church fathers said about homosexuality.

If I knew you would read it I'd show you the wonderful essay I found debunking a lot of the English translation. But last time I did that I just got the "you're picking and choosing" lecture. When quite obviously it was nothing like that. It didn't debunk the Bible as a whole, just the translation.

 

[Nostromadu]

If I knew you would read it I'd show you the wonderful essay I found debunking a lot of the English translation. But last time I did that I just got the "you're picking and choosing" lecture. When quite obviously it was nothing like that. It didn't debunk the Bible as a whole, just the translation.

A prime example of the mistranslation of the bible is the verse where Jesus commands us to hate our parents. In the original context the word more directly translates to "to take one over another." What Jesus is really saying in this verse is we have to take Him over our parents.

 

[ReformedChapin]

If I knew you would read it I'd show you the wonderful essay I found debunking a lot of the English translation. But last time I did that I just got the "you're picking and choosing" lecture. When quite obviously it was nothing like that. It didn't debunk the Bible as a whole, just the translation.

WHICH translation?

 

[DZoolander]

Your assumptions are flattering, but yes it does hurt. Families ripped apart, flocks scattered, and the individual is tortured inside.

I have a real problem with the idea that the embarrassment that someone may feel over the sexual orientation (and their subsequent inability to properly deal with it) of a child is somehow akin and on par with genocide, murder, political starvation, etc.

...but hey, that's just me. lol

 

[DZoolander]

Except thats what we are trying to do but they start accusing us of being "judgmental biggots" because we dont accept their sin.

And believe it or not, people do choose to be homosexual whether the choice is unscience or not thats another question.

There may be people out there that are trying to lovingly "convert" them - as you say... But ya know - somehow those that are "loving" are lost among the people like Fred Phelps.

I'm not gay - but I can tell you - I have a hard time differentiating between the "GodHates[wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]" crowd and the ones that you claim are trying to be "helpful".

 

[DZoolander]

a) Talk about logical fallacies. We should allow homosexuality because there is worse things out there. AWESOME.
b) So perversion of Gods word and allowing sin into the church isnt a serious problem.

Sin is already in the church. We are all born sinners. If it was through our own merit - none of us would be allowed inside of the church. It is only through the redemption of Christ that we are worthy of being there.

Honestly, it's not whether or not to allow sin into the church that's the issue. It's what sins *you* want to allow inside of the Church.

 

[DZoolander]

Are the church fathers God? The only word of God is the bible. I don't put much stock in other humans, especially if they claim to be speaking for God.

Kudos. Ya know - Church elders are just other people. God hasn't set them aside for some sort of special revelation that he has denied me (or you.) Their perspective is to be given respect and a due hearing - but ya know - they are just as fallible as anyone else. Never discount your own counsel and moral compass.

 

[DZoolander]

There may be people out there that are trying to lovingly "convert" them - as you say... But ya know - somehow those that are "loving" are lost among the people like Fred Phelps.

I'm not gay - but I can tell you - I have a hard time differentiating between the "GodHates[wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]" crowd and the ones that you claim are trying to be "helpful".

lol - it edited the name of Fred Phelps website. "God hates [wash my mouth][wash my mouth]".

 

[UberLutheran]

a) That's just plain common sense.

b) No one has said not to let them into the church. However in liberal churches these people are leaders in the church and they refuse to repent. All I want including all other bible believig christians is that they try to battle their sin like the rest of us.

Well, then — why don't you get some of your friends together and start picketing churches which you believe aren't "Bible-believing" enough on Sunday mornings?

Why, you could be helping them battle their sins — sins like: not being Biblical literalists; not being "orthodox" enough; not believing in Biblical inerrancy or infallibility; perhaps having a church leaders like the Pope or the Archbishop of Canterbury and bishops instead of elders and presbyters — the list could go on and on.

Don't you believe you have a God-given duty to get these churches on the straight and narrow? Hasn't God given you a commission to witness directly to these churches?

All eyes are on you, NewGuy. Why, the future of Christianity in the United States — rests directly upon your actions!

 

[UberLutheran]

I'm trying to tell you that you don't have everything figured out like I didn't when I was 16. Especially with such a contraversial issue such as homosexuality and the manipulative support our culture has for sin.

May I give you a suggestion from the vantage point of being 52?

You don't have everything figured out now that you're 21.

And if you're like most people (me included), you're going to get a lot more stupid — and a lot wiser — as you grow older.

You'll be absolutely amazed at how much you don't know when you're 40!

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Quote:
Shall we ask some of the gay members of CF if they are tortured inside because of their sexuality?
And expect an honest answer. No. Once you fool yourself into believing somthing is okay you will not admit it.

Oh... so you know better whats going on inside a homosexual than a homosexual does, huh?

 

[amber4099]

It is God's place to judge not ours. We are to love one another as God loves his church. Not just love the people we agree with, but everyone.

 

[BigBadWlf]

quote deleted by staff for rules violation.

"You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image, when it turns out that he hates all the same people you do." - Anne Lamott

 

[david_x]

Come on. If you're "tortured inside", you're going to know about it.

Suppression is remarkable, yes?

Oh... so you know better whats going on inside a homosexual than a homosexual does, huh?

As one.

 

[Der Alte]

[SIZE=-1]You know, you're right, here. After reviewing Matthew 23 and Luke 11, it's obvious that everyone who perverts the Bible into a tool to attack gay people should be condemned, perhaps even banned from CF. Fortunately, the staff is merciful, and allows them all to continue in their sin, in hopes they will see the error of their ways and repent.[/SIZE]

A gross, blatant, deliberate misrepresentation of my posts, evidently to further your own judgemental agenda. I did OBTW read part of your gross distortion of scripture re: the gay bishop in NCE. As evidenced by the ECF it is either/or not both/and.

You jumped in my case before and I asked you to produce evidence. Your response was to bug out without responding.

Here you have made an accusation that I "pervert[] the Bible into a tool to attack gay people." Can you back up this insulting accusation? Back it up or pack it up.

Meanwhile some of my previous evidence which, I'm certain, you have not even read, let alone addressed.

Ancient Jewish writings and early church evidence 58 AD --- 254 AD. Ignored!

http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=33936957&postcount=59

Scholastic review and exegesis of Biblical Texts. Ignored!

http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=33937111&postcount=60

Additional scholastic review of Biblical texts. Ignored!

http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=33939297&postcount=65

New English Translation, notes and other scholastic review of Biblical texts. Ignored!

http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=33963966&postcount=67

Additional scholarly reviews of Biblical texts. Ignored!

http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=33964023&postcount=68

 

[david_x]

Sorry, i don't read long posts. i r lazy.

 

[ReformedChapin]

May I give you a suggestion from the vantage point of being 52?

You don't have everything figured out now that you're 21.

And if you're like most people (me included), you're going to get a lot more stupid — and a lot wiser — as you grow older.

You'll be absolutely amazed at how much you don't know when you're 40!

Actually when you're trained in philosophy and science like I am my decisions are based on logical consistancies not emotions or bad epistemology.

And no I'm not like most people, anyone in my church can tell you that.