Homosexuality - Here's how I look at it

[Nostromadu]

Your assumptions are flattering, but yes it does hurt. Families ripped apart, flocks scattered, and the individual is tortured inside.

I am sorry for my assumption. You are correct. I was trying to make the question personal to get a more direct response. What I should have asked was "How does homosexuality affect non-homosexuals?"

Anyway, on to my response. Homosexuality is a fact of life. People are homosexual. Whether they choose to repent or not, or even whether they feel it is a sin or not, is for them to decide. If they need help with this decision they will seek someone out to talk about it with. The only way someone against homosexuality will come into this is if they force their way in, in which case the homosexual who is trying to decide for himself will probably not listen to this person. What this means in real terms is the only way a homosexual will negatively impact your life is if you try to tell them what they are doing is wrong. That is not for you to decide it is for God. And if you feel that God has stated that homosexuality is a sin, it is your job to get homosexuals to stop being homosexual. Now, which is the better way to accomplish this: forcing your viewpoint upon homosexuals, or being kind and loving while still trying to convert them to your viewpoint? If I were a homosexual I would hate someone who told me that it was their way or eternal damnation in Hell, whereas I would be much more open to someone who listened to what I had to say and made an effort to actually save me instead of denouncing me and my problem. Believe it or not, people don't choose to be homosexuals. They are already struggling enough without you compounding their problems with fire and brimstone.

 

[ReformedChapin]

I am sorry for my assumption. You are correct. I was trying to make the question personal to get a more direct response. What I should have asked was "How does homosexuality affect non-homosexuals?"

Anyway, on to my response. Homosexuality is a fact of life. People are homosexual. Whether they choose to repent or not, or even whether they feel it is a sin or not, is for them to decide. If they need help with this decision they will seek someone out to talk about it with. The only way someone against homosexuality will come into this is if they force their way in, in which case the homosexual who is trying to decide for himself will probably not listen to this person. What this means in real terms is the only way a homosexual will negatively impact your life is if you try to tell them what they are doing is wrong. That is not for you to decide it is for God. And if you feel that God has stated that homosexuality is a sin, it is your job to get homosexuals to stop being homosexual. Now, which is the better way to accomplish this: forcing your viewpoint upon homosexuals, or being kind and loving while still trying to convert them to your viewpoint? If I were a homosexual I would hate someone who told me that it was their way or eternal damnation in Hell, whereas I would be much more open to someone who listened to what I had to say and made an effort to actually save me instead of denouncing me and my problem. Believe it or not, people don't choose to be homosexuals. They are already struggling enough without you compounding their problems with fire and brimstone.

Except thats what we are trying to do but they start accusing us of being "judgmental biggots" because we dont accept their sin.

And believe it or not, people do choose to be homosexual whether the choice is unscience or not thats another question.

 

[Nostromadu]

a) Talk about logical fallacies. We should allow homosexuality because there is worse things out there. AWESOME.
b) So perversion of Gods word and allowing sin into the church isnt a serious problem.

a. I never said anything about allowing it, but being vehemently opposed to it isn't going to make it go away. It's a fact of life, and we need to deal with it like adults instead of taking the approach of "if I yell loudly enough it will go away."


b. Letting the sinful into church is how they get converted. If homosexuals aren't allowed in churches... how do you expect to get your message to them? I guess you could call it an abomination... but that doesn't seem very constructive. It is much easier to overcome something with support rather than damnation and eternal punishment. We're brothers in Christ. That means we're supposed to help each other, not denounce each other as sinners.

 

[ReformedChapin]

a. I never said anything about allowing it, but being vehemently opposed to it isn't going to make it go away. It's a fact of life, and we need to deal with it like adults instead of taking the approach of "if I yell loudly enough it will go away."


b. Letting the sinful into church is how they get converted. If homosexuals aren't allowed in churches... how do you expect to get your message to them? I guess you could call it an abomination... but that doesn't seem very constructive. It is much easier to overcome something with support rather than damnation and eternal punishment. We're brothers in Christ. That means we're supposed to help each other, not denounce each other as sinners.

a) That's just plain common sense.

b) No one has said not to let them into the church. However in liberal churches these people are leaders in the church and they refuse to repent. All I want including all other bible believig christians is that they try to battle their sin like the rest of us.

 

[Nostromadu]

Except thats what we are trying to do but they start accusing us of being "judgmental biggots" because we dont accept their sin.

And believe it or not, people do choose to be homosexual whether the choice is unscience or not thats another question.

No they're accusing you of being judgmental bigots because you are calling it an abomination of the Lord and claiming that Hell will be their just desserts. How about being supportive and caring for once instead of treating homosexuals as inferiors? No one is perfect, how would you like it if I called lying an abomination of God? Would that help someone stop lying? What about lust? Would that bring someone who suffers from an overactive libido back to the flock?

 

[Nostromadu]

a) That's just plain common sense.

b) No one has said not to let them into the church. However in liberal churches these people are leaders in the church and they refuse to repent. All I want including all other bible believig christians is that they try to battle their sin like the rest of us.

a. Yeah, it's common sense. Thank you for proving my point.
b. Then don't go to those churches! Yelling at them won't make them stop.

 

[ReformedChapin]

No they're accusing you of being judgmental bigots because you are calling it an abomination of the Lord and claiming that Hell will be their just desserts. How about being supportive and caring for once instead of treating homosexuals as inferiors? No one is perfect, how would you like it if I called lying an abomination of God? Would that help someone stop lying? What about lust? Would that bring someone who suffers from an overactive libido back to the flock?

Because that's what the BIBLE SAYS!!! And we don't call THEM that we call their sin that. And this isn't about my sin, we are all sinners it's about THEIR SIN and how they refuse to repent. Relativism isn't biblical.

 

[ReformedChapin]

a. Yeah, it's common sense. Thank you for proving my point.
b. Then don't go to those churches! Yelling at them won't make them stop.

b) Having false churches affects Chrits kingdom. It's our duty to expose this.

 

[Nostromadu]

b) Having false churches affects Chrits kingdom. It's our duty to expose this.

What will exposing these false churches accomplish? Nothing. Nada. Nil. Now, if you don't like something, you can change it. Screaming that homosexuality is a sin and an abomination is just preaching to the choir.
Listening to what homosexuals have to say and working with them to see the err in their ways will have a much greater effect than denouncing them as evil. A little kindness and understanding goes a long way imo.

Also, note that I don't care one way or another whether it is a sin or not. I am merely accepting your premise that it is in order to debate.

 

[ReformedChapin]

What will exposing these false churches accomplish? Nothing. Nada. Nil. Now, if you don't like something, you can change it. Screaming that homosexuality is a sin and an abomination is just preaching to the choir.
Listening to what homosexuals have to say and working with them to see the err in their ways will have a much greater affect than denouncing them as evil. A little kindness and understanding goes a long way imo.

Also, note that I don't care one way or another whether it is a sin or not. I am merely accepting your premise that it is in order to debate.

Do I have to keep repeating myself? They don't want to accept their sin. Look at all the "debates" here, no matter how many times you refute them they just get mad and start making crazy accusations.

And no one is treating them bad, none of the Christians in this website has done so. They just like to try to play the victums so the postmoderns have pitty on them.

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

And expect an honest answer. No. Once you fool yourself into believing somthing is okay you will not admit it.

Honey, I can promise you, I'm not tortured inside. I was FAR more tortured inside when I tried dating men to find out what I was looking for. (Pansexual not lesbian, but most people consider pansexual just a fancy term for bisexual).

 

[ReformedChapin]

Honey, I can promise you, I'm not tortured inside. I was FAR more tortured inside when I tried dating men to find out what I was looking for. (Pansexual not lesbian, but most people consider pansexual just a fancy term for bisexual).

I remember I had everything figured out at age 16. Especially with my world view.

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

I remember I had everything figured out at age 16. Especially with my world view.

If you were to get to know me in the real world, you would realize how judgmental that statement just was. But since you're not interested in anything but that, I won't bother trying to convince you otherwise.

 

[ReformedChapin]

If you were to get to know me in the real world, you would realize how judgmental that statement just was. But since you're not interested in anything but that, I won't bother trying to convince you otherwise.

Please tell me how judgemental my statement was since I was reffering to myself and not you.

 

[Nostromadu]

Do I have to keep repeating myself? They don't want to accept their sin. Look at all the "debates" here, no matter how many times you refute them they just get mad and start making crazy accusations.

And no one is treating them bad, none of the Christians in this website has done so. They just like to try to play the victums so the postmoderns have pitty on them.

I'm not accusing you of treating them bad. Look, all I'm trying to say is that no one is getting anywhere by being stubborn, and even if it is a sin, debating and refuting won't help someone overcome it. If they don't accept that it is a sin, then you've done your best. That's it. Worrying about it anymore is a waste of energy. Trying a different approach, if you're willing to, is not a waste of energy. Calling something an abomination is just going to upset people, which is not a conducive state to be in when discussing something. Everyone needs to take a step back and a step down from this issue, which I'm pretty sure is what the OP is saying. And you know what? They are victims. They're victims of cruelty. You may not be treating them cruelly but others are. I totally understand why they feel victimized, they really don't have anyone who's willing to listen. Most homosexuality debates turn into shouting matches, and that's not what God wants.

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

Please tell me how judgemental my statement was since I was reffering to myself and not you.

It was dipped in sarcasm with a side of bitterness is why.

 

[ReformedChapin]

It was dipped in sarcasm with a side of bitterness is why.

Defintely there was sarcasm.
But No, it was the truth about my past.

 

[ReformedChapin]

I'm not accusing you of treating them bad. Look, all I'm trying to say is that no one is getting anywhere by being stubborn, and even if it is a sin, debating and refuting won't help someone overcome it. If they don't accept that it is a sin, then you've done your best. That's it. Worrying about it anymore is a waste of energy. Trying a different approach, if you're willing to, is not a waste of energy. Calling something an abomination is just going to upset people, which is not a conducive state to be in when discussing something. Everyone needs to take a step back and a step down from this issue, which I'm pretty sure is what the OP is saying. And you know what? They are victims. They're victims of cruelty. You may not be treating them cruelly but others are. I totally understand why they feel victimized, they really don't have anyone who's willing to listen. Most homosexuality debates turn into shouting matches, and that's not what God wants.

I agree, however if they try to misrepresent any ideas or try to manipulate any naive Christians I will be there to defend God's word.

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

No, it was the truth about my past.

Are you saying that in an attempt to turn my statement against me? Because otherwise, that would make the first a little pointless.

 

[ReformedChapin]

Are you saying that in an attempt to turn my statement against me? Because otherwise, that would make the first a little pointless.

I'm trying to tell you that you don't have everything figured out like I didn't when I was 16. Especially with such a contraversial issue such as homosexuality and the manipulative support our culture has for sin.