Homosexuality - Here's how I look at it

[DZoolander]

Exactly Kudos!

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

Whether or not sins are equal isn't neccesarily the argument. It's the fact that they all require the same forgiveness and if they aren't forgiven they lead to the same place. I give you reps on your breath of fresh air. I believe that no one, especially Christians, has a right to decide or condemn others. Any Christian who says homosexuals are going to hell are simply digging themselves a hole. Remember, Jesus wasn't exactly friends with Pharisees. And criticizing others and giving off such an obvious aura of hate is VERY Pharisee-esque.

 

[BAFRIEND]

My viewpoint gets me mixed reactions from my friends. Some people really like how I look at it - others seem to really disagree and it's a real bone of contention.

I was raised taught that we are all sinners. Good works will not earn our way into heaven. The fact that we are living with sin makes us all equally guity of sin in God's eyes. It's only through our faith, and our redemption through Christ, that we are found worthy of salvation. God pretty much views us all equally due to our sin.

The important part is...God views us all equally unworthy of salvation based upon our own merit.

To me this means there is no hierarchy of sin. For example - if I have lust in my heart - that's not a bigger sin than if someone that tells a white lie. God isn't more "[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]ed off" at my sin than he is at the other. It's the fact that we are impure, and with sin, that matters. That's what God sees.

On that note... Homosexuality is just another sin. It doesn't rank higher in God's eyes than any other sin. Sin is sin, and Homosexuality is just another facet of it. God isn't up there fuming more over the homosexual than he is over any other sin.

If God isn't fuming more over homosexuality than any other sin - then I'm not going to either. It's God's place to judge - not mine. It's not my choice of lifestyle, but neither are a litany of other things. In a world full people hurting each other, being cruel, murdering each other, etc...the last thing I need to burden myself with is worrying about what consensual adults choose to do with their reproductive organs.

That's how I see it. God will have the final say. Until then, I'm going to worry about things that in my humble opinion truly do effect our quality of life while we're here.

Baloney, I can tell a lie and then be sorry for it, regret it, confess, repent and be sorry that I have offended God.

Being involved in a sinful lifestyle, having gay sex, proliferating sin, scandal, no intention of halting this offense against God, you are not forgiven. You will not be saved.

 

[DZoolander]

...and never...ever....ever lie again?

(...and watch out for the irony in your answer )

 

[Der Alte]

...[SIZE=-1]and never...ever....ever lie again?

(...and watch out for the irony in your answer )[/SIZE]

I wonder if there is any difference between a person who deliberately, regularly repeats a sinful act and someone who inadvertently slips occasionally? Guess not.

 

[DZoolander]

As I said before - I'll leave judgment about how badly real people feel about their actions up to God. He alone knows the truth of what's in their hearts.

As for speculative comparing of how badly hypothetical people may feel about this or that - I don't have a lot of use for that. lol

 

[Der Alte]

[SIZE=-1]Abominations...yep. Homosexuality, lying...

...that shrimp dinner you had at Sizzler the other night. (Leviticus 11:9-11)[/SIZE]

Logical fallacy, trying to divert attention to something else to cover up the fact one can't answer the question. And this particular logical fallacy uses a false premise, which has already been exposed dozens of times in this forum. But no never mind, virtually every day someone digs up this moldy, old "shellfish" argument.

Act 10:10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven. (Act 11:5-10)

Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. (Act 15:29, 21:25)

Mat 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

1 Co 10:25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
26 For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.

1 Tim 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:​

[SIZE=-1]Like I said - people feel what they feel - and carry their own agendas and personal likes/dislikes into any debate. The things that they favor more - they find excuses for why they're acceptable. The more that they find it distasteful - the more rigid they become in their interpretations.

It's human nature. No minds are going to be changed. People are as they are.

I still say that to me, in a world full of cruelty, genocide, murder, politically motivated starvation, etc... to get your panties in an uproar and waste your precious God given time worrying about what someone does with the penis strikes me as just ludicrous. Worry about something that matters and that will truly help your fellow man.

Let God worry about what truly offends him.[/SIZE]

Some of us are not concerned with what people do in the privacy of their own homes. Rawk on dood. My concern is people coming to this forum misrepresenting, perverting the Word of God trying to justify what is clearly condemned as sin and by so doing promoting and encouraging sin by others.

And as with the "shellfish" argument, no matter how many times the historical meaning of the scriptures are PROVEN, someone will post the same old scriptural perversion.

 

[Der Alte]

[SIZE=-1]As I said before - I'll leave judgment about how badly real people feel about their actions up to God. He alone knows the truth of what's in their hearts.

As for speculative comparing of how badly hypothetical people may feel about this or that - I don't have a lot of use for that. lol[/SIZE]

But you don't have a problem with your own speculative guesswork about what a specific person would do, do you? Nothing like a little Sunday hypocrisy. LOL.

 

[Polycarp1]

My concern is people coming to this forum misrepresenting, perverting the Word of God trying to justify what is clearly condemned as sin and by so doing promoting and encouraging sin by others.

You know, you're right, here. After reviewing Matthew 23 and Luke 11, it's obvious that everyone who perverts the Bible into a tool to attack gay people should be condemned, perhaps even banned from CF. Fortunately, the staff is merciful, and allows them all to continue in their sin, in hopes they will see the error of their ways and repent.

 

[david_x]

...and never...ever....ever lie again?

(...and watch out for the irony in your answer )

Hardly, the point is that they do repent, they are trying not to.

 

[Nostromadu]

Logical fallacy, trying to divert attention to something else to cover up the fact one can't answer the question. And this particular logical fallacy uses a false premise, which has already been exposed dozens of times in this forum. But no never mind, virtually every day someone digs up this moldy, old "shellfish" argument.

Act 10:10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven. (Act 11:5-10)

Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. (Act 15:29, 21:25)

Mat 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

1 Co 10:25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
26 For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.

1 Tim 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:​

Some of us are not concerned with what people do in the privacy of their own homes. Rawk on dood. My concern is people coming to this forum misrepresenting, perverting the Word of God trying to justify what is clearly condemned as sin and by so doing promoting and encouraging sin by others.

And as with the "shellfish" argument, no matter how many times the historical meaning of the scriptures are PROVEN, someone will post the same old scriptural perversion.

You know what's funny? You accuse him of avoiding the question when you are guilty of the same logical fallacy. How do you respond to his advice that worrying about homosexuality when there are much more grievous sins (since not all sins are equal!) being committed in the world today. Call me crazy, but genocide, torture, and religious violence seem much more sinful than consensual sexual acts in the privacy of ones home.

EDIT: By the way, he posed an alternate way on looking at things in which whether homosexuality was a sin or not is irrelevant. I have yet to see one of you people posting against him actually talk about what was actually posted. Look back on the first page, the OP refuses to discuss whether homosexuality is a sin or not. I fully agree with this way of thinking. Whether there are greater sins or not, all unforgiven sins land us in Hell. If you're not a homosexual, then whether it is a sin or not doesn't concern you at all. You don't have to worry about it, so why bother? Why not worry about more urgent matters than something that doesn't really even affect you?

 

[david_x]

You know what's funny? You accuse him of avoiding the question when you are guilty of the same logical fallacy. How do you respond to his advice that worrying about homosexuality when there are much more grievous sins (since not all sins are equal!) being committed in the world today. Call me crazy, but genocide, torture, and religious violence seem much more sinful than consensual sexual acts in the privacy of ones home.

Then why do they have the same ultimate concequence? I tell you, they hurt people.

 

[Nostromadu]

How does homosexuality hurt you? I am still not able to see how homosexuality affects you, a non-homosexual...

 

[david_x]

How does homosexuality hurt you? I am still not able to see how homosexuality affects you, a non-homosexual...

Your assumptions are flattering, but yes it does hurt. Families ripped apart, flocks scattered, and the individual is tortured inside.

 

[Pogue]

Shall we ask some of the gay members of CF if they are tortured inside because of their sexuality?

 

[ReformedChapin]

Shall we ask some of the gay members of CF if they are tortured inside because of their sexuality?

Considering they lie about how evil fundies are probably not.

 

[david_x]

Shall we ask some of the gay members of CF if they are tortured inside because of their sexuality?

And expect an honest answer. No. Once you fool yourself into believing somthing is okay you will not admit it.

 

[Pogue]

Come on. If you're "tortured inside", you're going to know about it.

 

[ReformedChapin]

You know what's funny? You accuse him of avoiding the question when you are guilty of the same logical fallacy a). How do you respond to his advice that worrying about homosexuality when there are much more grievous sins (since not all sins are equal!) being committed in the world today. Call me crazy, but genocide, torture, and religious violence seem much more sinful than consensual sexual acts in the privacy of ones home.

b)EDIT: By the way, he posed an alternate way on looking at things in which whether homosexuality was a sin or not is irrelevant. I have yet to see one of you people posting against him actually talk about what was actually posted. Look back on the first page, the OP refuses to discuss whether homosexuality is a sin or not. I fully agree with this way of thinking. Whether there are greater sins or not, all unforgiven sins land us in Hell. If you're not a homosexual, then whether it is a sin or not doesn't concern you at all. You don't have to worry about it, so why bother? Why not worry about more urgent matters than something that doesn't really even affect you?

a) Talk about logical fallacies. We should allow homosexuality because there is worse things out there. AWESOME.
b) So perversion of Gods word and allowing sin into the church isnt a serious problem.

 

[ReformedChapin]

Come on. If you're "tortured inside", you're going to know about it.

I didnt when I was an athiest.