Homosexuality - Here's how I look at it

[EnemyPartyII]

Its just that GOD made people to be strait, by the design of their bodys. its unhealthy.

If that were true, why did God create us with all those sexually responsive nerve endings in areas that homosexuals tend to utilise?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

I hope I would be. I would be in splendorous company. Joeseph was a slave, all of isreal was enslaved.

Great. So... wanna be my slave then?

 

[UnitedInChrist]

If that were true, why did God create us with all those sexually responsive nerve endings in areas that homosexuals tend to utilise?

You keep forgetting..."sins of the flesh"..we are suppose to hate our bodies and any pleasure that God gave us.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

You keep forgetting..."sins of the flesh"..we are suppose to hate our bodies and any pleasure that God gave us.

Yeah... see... I just don't get that. I don't believe a loving God would set us up with such a system where we constantly have to second guess ourselves lest we accidentally find ourselves sinning, just by being ourselves...

I have a hard time understanding people who see nothing wrong with the idea of making homosexuals for the express purpose of either forcing celebacy on them, or condemning them for sinning. I just don't get it.

 

[UnitedInChrist]

Yeah... see... I just don't get that. I don't believe a loving God would set us up with such a system where we constantly have to second guess ourselves lest we accidentally find ourselves sinning, just by being ourselves...

I have a hard time understanding people who see nothing wrong with the idea of making homosexuals for the express purpose of either forcing celebacy on them, or condemning them for sinning. I just don't get it.

Babe...sometimes things are just not meant to understand. Chalk it up to life...and march on!!!

 

[Der Alte]

[SIZE=-1]If that were true, why did God create us with all those sexually responsive nerve endings in areas that homosexuals tend to utilise?[/SIZE]

Ask him. And ask doctors, they can tell you the reasons they have found.

 

[Der Alte]

[SIZE=-1]Aha! Another goal post shift! So now its only ACCREDITED Biblical scholars that didn't own slaves...

So please, do tell us all what criteria one has to meet to be considered "accredited"?[/SIZE]

No! Merely clarifying. Anyone who reads the Bible could be called a Bible scholar. Then some in-your-face person might twist my words and make some inane comment, e.g. "Well wealthy plantation owners were "Bible scholars, too." By accredited, I mean someone who has studied the Bible formally above college level, who regularly engages in further study, teaching, or writing associated with Biblical study, and earns their living from this.

Such persons are/were usually not wealthy, or well paid, a requirement to purchase, own and maintain slaves. Thus they had no vested interest in justifying the practice. OTOH wealthy slave owners and traders would have an interest in justifying slavery, and they may even have belonged to a church and studied the Bible at some time or other.

An example of such a scholar, Granville Sharp, who discovered the grammatical rule in Biblical Greek, that was named after him. During his lifetime he was more well known for his efforts in the abolition of slavery, in England.

 

[Der Alte]

[SIZE=-1]Yeah... see... I just don't get that. I don't believe a loving God would set us up with such a system where we constantly have to second guess ourselves lest we accidentally find ourselves sinning, just by being ourselves...

I have a hard time understanding people who see nothing wrong with the idea of making homosexuals for the express purpose of either forcing celebacy on them, or condemning them for sinning. I just don't get it.[/SIZE]

I agree, I don't believe a loving God would set up people with a system where they would be born blind, deaf, with OCD, Bipolar disorder, Downs Syndrome, MS, Autism, etc., etc., who will never be able to live as normal people.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Ask him. And ask doctors, they can tell you the reasons they have found.

Indeed. Usually to do with the social reinforcement that occurs due to sexual intimacy... both homo and heterosexual

 

[EnemyPartyII]

I agree, I don't believe a loving God would set up people with a system where they would be born blind, deaf, with OCD, Bipolar disorder, Downs Syndrome, MS, Autism, etc., etc., who will never be able to live as normal people.

But unless you condem sufferers of MS, bipolar disorder et al as sinners for acting in the way their condition dictates, you analogy breaks down... because you insist that homosexuals are WILLFULLY sinning...

Now, if you want to class homosexuality as a "no fault" condition, that causes the carrier to display unusual behavioural traits, much like Tourette's Syndrome, Autism, or whatever, well, thats fine... but that isn't what you have done since I have been here, you maintain that homosexuality is sinful, although a God induced condition, while other disabilities AREN'T sinful, yet equally God induced.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

No! Merely clarifying. Anyone who reads the Bible could be called a Bible scholar. Then some in-your-face person might twist my words and make some inane comment, e.g. "Well wealthy plantation owners were "Bible scholars, too." By accredited, I mean someone who has studied the Bible formally above college level, who regularly engages in further study, teaching, or writing associated with Biblical study, and earns their living from this.

Such persons are/were usually not wealthy, or well paid, a requirement to purchase, own and maintain slaves. Thus they had no vested interest in justifying the practice. OTOH wealthy slave owners and traders would have an interest in justifying slavery, and they may even have belonged to a church and studied the Bible at some time or other.

An example of such a scholar, Granville Sharp, who discovered the grammatical rule in Biblical Greek, that was named after him. During his lifetime he was more well known for his efforts in the abolition of slavery, in England.

So... how about Mediaeval Popes... would THEY qualify as Bible Scholars?

 

[Der Alte]

[SIZE=-1]So... how about Mediaeval Popes... would THEY qualify as Bible Scholars?[/SIZE]

What do you think, would they qualify? Would Popes have had a vested interest in wealthy Catholics continuing to own slaves, and amassing more wealth? Would the financial support of the church have suffered if a Pope, Cardinal, etc. had denounced slavery?

 

[Nimrauko]

So... how about Mediaeval Popes... would THEY qualify as Bible Scholars?

Hey now! The popes were bible scholars!

 

[david_x]

As I pointed out, lesbians are in general free of physical problems related to their sexual behaviour, both because their acts do not involve feces, and because they in general are not as promiscous. So I am not here ragging on homosexuals, I fully admit that a lesbian, from a health viewpoint, is safer than a heterosexual woman who engages in unprotected vaginal intercourse.

Ironically proving that they are emotionally the same as straight women.

Great. So... wanna be my slave then?

Wouldn't that go against your ethics?

Yeah... see... I just don't get that. I don't believe a loving God would set us up with such a system where we constantly have to second guess ourselves lest we accidentally find ourselves sinning, just by being ourselves...

I have a hard time understanding people who see nothing wrong with the idea of making homosexuals for the express purpose of either forcing celebacy on them, or condemning them for sinning. I just don't get it

I see your looking for the straght and very very wide road to heaven.

I agree, I don't believe a loving God would set up people with a system where they would be born blind, deaf, with OCD, Bipolar disorder, Downs Syndrome, MS, Autism, etc., etc., who will never be able to live as normal people.

We are getting much closer to normal though.

But unless you condem sufferers of MS, bipolar disorder et al as sinners for acting in the way their condition dictates, you analogy breaks down... because you insist that homosexuals are WILLFULLY sinning...

Now, if you want to class homosexuality as a "no fault" condition, that causes the carrier to display unusual behavioural traits, much like Tourette's Syndrome, Autism, or whatever, well, thats fine... but that isn't what you have done since I have been here, you maintain that homosexuality is sinful, although a God induced condition, while other disabilities AREN'T sinful, yet equally God induced.

Here's the thing, homosexuality is like someone claiming to be blind but actually will just not open their eyes.

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

Here's the thing, homosexuality is like someone claiming to be blind but actually will just not open their eyes.

I think what she's trying to say is, if homosexuality is a mental disorder, then it isn't a sin if God is all-loving. If a person is born mentally unstable and so attracted to the same sex in that way, then for God to condemn them would go against the description of God.

And homosexuality being a mental disorder is a HUGE argument against homosexuality, especially for Christians. There are many homosexuals who don't like the idea including me. But I take an actual psychological stand point since the only possible symptom is confusion and that imbalance can be connected to other disorders.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

What do you think, would they qualify? Would Popes have had a vested interest in wealthy Catholics continuing to own slaves, and amassing more wealth? Would the financial support of the church have suffered if a Pope, Cardinal, etc. had denounced slavery?

Minus 50 points for answering a question with a question.

Again... in your universe of "accredited" Bible Scholars... do mediaeval Popes count? And, as a penalty for the aforementioned QwQ violation, a further question... If Popes DON'T count as Biblical Scholars during the middle ages, who then would you suggest qualifies?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Wouldn't that go against your ethics?

Don't use my ethics as a mask to avoid a straight question... would you want to be my slave or not?

I see your looking for the straght and very very wide road to heaven.

Not at all... however I don't see why God would make up arbitrary rules to cause some of us to stunmble when we arent actually doing anything that is harmful to anyone

Here's the thing, homosexuality is like someone claiming to be blind but actually will just not open their eyes.

Um... no, homosexuality is not a matter of not opening one's eyes or anything like it. Father's daughter understands my position quite clearly.

 

[Der Alte]

[SIZE=-1]Minus 50 points for answering a question with a question.[/SIZE]

I answered your question and gave an example and can give others. You ignored my post and brought in the pope. Make your argument about him.

[SIZE=-1]Again... in your universe of "accredited" Bible Scholars... do mediaeval Popes count? And, as a penalty for the aforementioned QwQ violation, a further question... If Popes DON'T count as Biblical Scholars during the middle ages, who then would you suggest qualifies?[/SIZE]

"My world of accredited scholars" are people who are actually practicing Christians, more than peripherally knowledgeable in the scripture, with no vested interest in maintaining slavery, e.g. Granville Sharp. Can you name a pope that qualifies?

I understand that not all popes attained that position based on their spirituality and piety, etc. Just as we have some spiritual leaders, in the U.S., who are highly knowledgeable and above reproach, e.g. Billy Graham, and we have others who are not e.g., Jim Bakker and Jimmy Swaggart. So do you have any particular pope in mind?

My point is when someone says "the church" did this or "the church" did that, we need to clarify just who we are talking about. For example, Fred Phelps at WBC is NOT "the church."

 

[Der Alte]

[SIZE=-1]however I don't see why God would make up arbitrary rules to cause some of us to stunmble when we arent actually doing anything that is harmful to anyoneUm... no, homosexuality is not a matter of not opening one's eyes or anything like it.[/SIZE]

If God made the rule, and he did, it is not arbitrary. Instead of dissing God, the Bible, and his commandments, maybe you should start trying to figure out why he made the rule.

[SIZE=-1]Father's daughter understands my position quite clearly.[/SIZE]

A Muslim will always defend another Muslim.

 

[Der Alte]

. . . [SIZE=-1]And homosexuality being a mental disorder is a HUGE argument against homosexuality, especially for Christians. There are many homosexuals who don't like the idea including me. But I take an actual psychological stand point since the only possible symptom is confusion and that imbalance can be connected to other disorders[/SIZE].

Do you have a medical degree?