Homosexuality - Here I stand.

[Adoniram]

Eph. 4
17 So this I say, and affirm together with the Lord, that you walk no longer just as the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their mind, 18 being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart;
19 and they, having become callous, have given themselves over to sensuality for the practice of every kind of impurity with greediness.
20 But you did not learn Christ in this way,
21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught in Him, just as truth is in Jesus,
22 that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit,
23 and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
24 and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.

 

[wayseer]

In the perfect world you would be correct. However there are people out there who, upon losing their job, would starve along with their children.

Sounds like you are a advocate for slavery.

Loosing a job and facing starvation has nothing to do with slavery - it has to do with a lack of care by certain governments. Because you son cannot find work and is starving you would not look after him - take him in - care for him. Fortunately in Australia those who face such issues are financially supported.

Paul's latter to Philemon concerning his runaway slave, Onesimus, was generated in order to save Onesimus' life. A runaway slave was subject to death when caught. Paul was obviously not concerned with slavery - indeed it was an accepted practice to keep slaves in those days, within that culture.

In fact Paul uses the image of the 'slave' to describe his relationship with Christ. I do not see my relationship with God as 'slavery' - I'm free to leave that relationship at any time I might wish. In fact, it is that very freedom that is the motivator for my relationship with God - because my relationship is no longer built on 'slavery, or 'freedom', but on trust.

There is an old saying - if you think you 'own' anyone, set them free and see if they return. God, in his way of love and compassion, sets us free. Only those who are 'free' can possibly know what it is like to 'return'.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Because I wanted to point out that asking such a question is in no way inflamatory. Which is why I posted Scripture which says;be ready in season and out to give an account of the hope in you.

Do you take me asking this as inflamatory?

Quite.

 

[Dogbean]

Zeena, some people take any mention of scripture as inflamatory. Why? Because it intrudes on their comfort level. People who are seeking to justify their own sin or approve of others who do sin don't like to hear scripture, because scripture brings sin out into the light and exposes it. Posting scripture is not inflamatory.

 

[david_x]

Sounds like you are a advocate for slavery.

Loosing a job and facing starvation has nothing to do with slavery - it has to do with a lack of care by certain governments. Because you son cannot find work and is starving you would not look after him - take him in - care for him. Fortunately in Australia those who face such issues are financially supported.

Paul's latter to Philemon concerning his runaway slave, Onesimus, was generated in order to save Onesimus' life. A runaway slave was subject to death when caught. Paul was obviously not concerned with slavery - indeed it was an accepted practice to keep slaves in those days, within that culture.

In fact Paul uses the image of the 'slave' to describe his relationship with Christ. I do not see my relationship with God as 'slavery' - I'm free to leave that relationship at any time I might wish. In fact, it is that very freedom that is the motivator for my relationship with God - because my relationship is no longer built on 'slavery, or 'freedom', but on trust.

There is an old saying - if you think you 'own' anyone, set them free and see if they return. God, in his way of love and compassion, sets us free. Only those who are 'free' can possibly know what it is like to 'return'.

I never realized that everyone in Australia had a job, well done that is just incredible....

I am a slave for Christ because he died for me. That is what it means to be a Christian.

 

[Zeena]

Sounds like you are a advocate for slavery.

Loosing a job and facing starvation has nothing to do with slavery - it has to do with a lack of care by certain governments. Because you son cannot find work and is starving you would not look after him - take him in - care for him. Fortunately in Australia those who face such issues are financially supported.

Paul's latter to Philemon concerning his runaway slave, Onesimus, was generated in order to save Onesimus' life. A runaway slave was subject to death when caught.

Not according to the Law of God, which is why Paul was adamant in giving this man his protection.

Deuteronomy 23:15-16
Thou shalt not deliver unto his master the servant which is escaped from his master unto thee: He shall dwell with thee, even among you, in that place which he shall choose in one of thy gates, where it liketh him best: thou shalt not oppress him.

Paul was obviously not concerned with slavery - indeed it was an accepted practice to keep slaves in those days, within that culture.

Ecclesiastes 1:9
The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

In fact Paul uses the image of the 'slave' to describe his relationship with Christ. I do not see my relationship with God as 'slavery' - I'm free to leave that relationship at any time I might wish.
In fact, it is that very freedom that is the motivator for my relationship with God - because my relationship is no longer built on 'slavery, or 'freedom', but on trust.

Slaves in the Biblical OT times were free to leave any time they wished too, and were also given the option of staying on past jubillie. Not so with this world system in place now. Now there are a few elitists and the rest are working class slaves to the grind until they die.

In Canada, labour laws do not specify a retirement age for employees.

Statutory provisions prohibiting mandatory retirement in Ontario came into force very recently, on December 12, 2006.

Source --> http://www1.servicecanada.gc.ca/eng/lp/spila/clli/eslc/19Mandatory_Retirement.shtml

There is an old saying - if you think you 'own' anyone, set them free and see if they return. God, in his way of love and compassion, sets us free. Only those who are 'free' can possibly know what it is like to 'return'.

If you love someone, you will always seek thier best interests, and even if that means breaking ties because of rebuke.

 

[Zeena]

Fortunately in Australia those who face such issues are financially supported.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/...-york-proved-it/2008/10/10/1223145635625.html

for families with children, often fleeing domestic violence, the numbers rose by 17 per cent. The lack of public housing and affordable rental housing has been disastrous for families.

The third group of homeless constitutes the biggest: single adults, mainly men. It increased by 10 per cent over the five years, and now numbers 60,000 out of the total homeless population of 105,000. An unknown number of them are the long-term homeless like O'Connor.

 

[Zeena]

Quite.

Well, that's not my problem..

 

[Zeena]

Zeena, some people take any mention of scripture as inflamatory. Why? Because it intrudes on their comfort level. People who are seeking to justify their own sin or approve of others who do sin don't like to hear scripture, because scripture brings sin out into the light and exposes it. Posting scripture is not inflamatory.

Not here anyways

And I have moderator permission to do so FREELY!

 

[Texas Lynn]

To label sin as sin stated in Scripture is in no way attacking the [a] person, it is pointing out sin, plain and simple.

To take a rebuke of sin as an attack on the person is error.
For we are called as Christians to rebuke those walking after their flesh, for thier sin.

What occurs when conservative Christians attack LGBTs is not so easily explained.

In the first place, the best response is to be concerned with the sins of oneself rather than of others. Conservative Christians routinely and cavalierly commit grievious sins against their LGBT brothers and sisters in their judgmentalism and advocacy of public policies which harm them.

Moreover the assertion that to be LGBT is to sin is by no means a universal creed of Christians. Many Christians reject the assertion. It is a doctrinal difference which in the larger scheme of things is of no more importance than the frequency in which different denominations celebrate communion.

Are you of the 'Wesleyan Methodist' denomination?

I am of the United Methodist Church. There are smaller denominations which contain the term "Weslayan" in their titles, but ours is not one of those. It is of the Weslayan tradition in a broad sense.

 

[Zeena]

It doesn't have to be in a creed, it's in the Bible.

Which is universal

 

[Zeena]

http://ucmpage.org/fa_cm/cmfa_4.htm#N_1_

 

[Texas Lynn]

Well, that's not my problem..

It is if you desire to improve your behavior.

 

[wayseer]

Conservative Christians who commit sins against LGBT are in the wrong, and are giving a bad name to the rest of us who are doing things Biblically.

I don't what a LGBT is - you might explain.

Many who call themselves Christians are really not

I stand amazed how there are those who are so confident they are not only right with God but are then apparently empowered to cast judgment on all others, Christians or not. Spiritual pride is rather insidious.

 

[Dogbean]

I don't what a LGBT is - you might explain.

Don't mind if I do. Lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender.

I stand amazed how there are those who are so confident they are not only right with God but are then apparently empowered to cast judgment on all others, Christians or not. Spiritual pride is rather insidious.

Well, reading 1 John is a good test if you ever doubt our salvation. It's only 5 chapters long. And I don't believe I'm empowered to judge anyone. But I can confidently quote scripture and let the scripture speak for itself. If I see a gay dude, and the Bible says clearly that it's a sin, then I can simply repeat what the Word already says about being gay. It's that simple. I'm not adding anything to it or subracting anything.

 

[Zeena]

Don't mind if I do. Lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender.

Each one a fleshly designation that will pass with time.


Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.


Matthew 22:30
For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.


2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Jesus comes to BREAK the label!

It is if you desire to improve your behavior.

Have I sinned?

If so, where?

 

[Texas Lynn]

Each one a fleshly designation that will pass with time.

Wrong. To love another, regardless of sexual orientation is a directly spiritual process.

Have I sinned?

If so, where?

I believe the use of off-topic religious gotcha questions against another person is a good example of arrogance and pride for which one should be sorely ashamed. It is most definitely not an example of following the golden rule.

 

[wayseer]

Have I sinned?

If so, where?

The Pharisees could quote scripture by the yard but they still failed to understand Jesus.

 

[Zeena]

Wrong. To love another, regardless of sexual orientation is a directly spiritual process.

Then what do you do with the Scripture as quoted?

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Matthew 22:30
For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Are you speaking of Eros?
Because Eros is NOT Agape..

I believe the use of off-topic religious gotcha questions against another person is a good example of arrogance and pride for which one should be sorely ashamed. It is most definitely not an example of following the golden rule.

They wouldn't BE gotcha questions if the respondant answered according to the Spirit, they would then be edifying in love!

ANY answer that is not according to the Holy Spirit, as revealed in Scripture, will be rebuked.

The Pharisees could quote scripture by the yard but they still failed to understand Jesus.

The Pharasee's were not born again believers on the Lord Jesus, they were not being filled with His Holy Spirit

1 Corinthians 2:10
But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

Psalm 42:7
Deep calleth unto deep at the noise of thy waterspouts: all thy waves and thy billows are gone over me.

Jesus LOVES Scripture, for it is written by the Holy Spirit!
And He's my Life!

Luke 4:16-21
And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

Luke 4:1-13
And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.
And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.
And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence: For it is written, He shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee: And in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from him for a season.

Luke 24:27,32 & 45
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

 

[Texas Lynn]

Then what do you do with the Scripture as quoted?

Which ones? I'm not a fundamentalist.

Galatians 3:28

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Nor straignt and queer....

Matthew 22:30

For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

Find out in the afterlife; let it go...

2 Peter 3:10

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Appears in alignment with the laws of thermodynamics and theory the earth will end as the sun supernovas.

Are you speaking of Eros?
Because Eros is NOT Agape..
Eros can be a fruit of either Philia or Agape love.

No and yes. I don't parse such things or judge good folks.... For such things I go to Fromm and Frankl not some hatemonger whose books are marketed in a fundamentalist bookstore.

They wouldn't BE gotcha questions if the respondant answered according to the Spirit, they would then be edifying in love!

There's that old Phariseeism again....

ANY answer that is not according to the Holy Spirit, as revealed in Scripture, will be rebuked.

Not by anyone with any legitimate authority over humans.

The Pharasee's were not born again believers on the Lord Jesus, they were not being filled with His Holy Spirit

....

1 Corinthians 2:10

But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

Psalm 42:7
Deep calleth unto deep at the noise of thy waterspouts: all thy waves and thy billows are gone over me.

Jesus LOVES Scripture, for it is written by the Holy Spirit!

Luke 4:16-21
And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

Luke 4:1-13
And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.
And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.
And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence: For it is written, He shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee: And in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from him for a season.

Luke 24:27,32 & 45
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

I don't grok too well the use of scriptures like the hearing impaired use sign language. Whatever floats your boat.