Homosexuality - Here I stand.

[david_x]

I'm not trying to prove anything. Posters have asked for sources. I can't quite recall the channel I saw the documentary on AIDS in Africa and their particular "sexual" beliefs, but I think it was CNN and I'm going to have to go through those archives, so I am presenting to posters some evidence.

I, for one, find the Leviticus laws of cleanliness amazing in such a primitive peoples and primitive times and the Hebrews were the ones to "listen". I don't believe God gives laws for no reason.

Now promiscuity causing STD's. Hmmmmm? I am a product from the 60's Love Generation and it was have sex, sex, sex. As a teenager I was involved with promiscuity and have never had an STD (this was in the 1970's) and so were all my sisters and cousins, no STD's. So was my ex husband. Heavily involved with music scene, signed to two record deals in the 1970's and probably had sex with hundreds of women, no STD's. None of us praticed safe sex. And these are studies of strictly penile/vaginal intercourse as the Love Generation of the 60's which still existed in the 1970's were a strictly heterosexual community engaging in heterosexual sex promiscual sex but yet were disease free. We are lucky in that we never got STD's (all my family and friends of that time) but promisual sex doesn't necessarily cause STD's either (?)

And whether promiscual or not, doesn't take away the facts that bacterium live and thrive in the colon and anus, which can sometimes be fatal.

I also brought up my points that homosexuality has caused no one harm, which is a gay chant practically. And I say, yes homosexuality has caused great harm, DEATH. People are dead period. Bacterium in the colon cannot just be laughed away nor be viewed with immaturity.

You have a lucky family. Promiscuity is actually one of very few things that does spread STD's, (Sexually transmitted disease).

You are far more likely to die from driving than anal sex.

There is no way to win people over with this argument...

 

[one11]

You have a lucky family. Promiscuity is actually one of very few things that does spread STD's, (Sexually transmitted disease).

You are far more likely to die from driving than anal sex.

There is no way to win people over with this argument...

Yes we were lucky. I had one love for two years who I lost my virginity to at age 13. Our relationship lasted until I was almost 16. After I lost him, I engaged in this promiscuity out of a broken heart and also a way to seek that I was still lovable. I didn't like the promiscuity but I went that after a broken heart and I would cry after the sex act because I didn't like being promiscuous, so I stopped it earlier than others. All it did was make me sad and feel dirty. I then got raped several times because I refused to be with a man who I wasn't going to marry. I got laughed at and raped. Being a product of the "love generation" in California was kind a hell.

Love is an abstract word. We can love 50 millions things a day yet really "love" none of them. For instance, I love my cat and can be charitable to my cat, but I can also love my new blouse but I cannot be charitable to my new blouse. So the "love generation" had it's good and bad points. I have some good memories along with the bad, the rapes especially "the bad".

No I can't pursude anyone of anything, but I kind of like this quote from the article I post, post No. 399:

"In this way, it seems that perceived susceptibility must be coupled with accurate knowledge in order to bring about behavioral change."

We still need to discuss accurate knowledge and double check our resources. Don't believe everything you read on the internet! Keep checking for good resources such as Africa dot gov. Find a penpal there, ask questions. These are people from third world countries without much education and they are broke. Men have to go long journies to find some money, they may be gone six months! They stop at prostitutes along the way. Some believe having anal sex is not adultery as it cannot produce a child. It is also reported that they may stop at several prostitutes before they get home and then have vaginal sex with their wife. There is also a prostitution factor in Africa which is causing the spread of AIDS. We have to look at facts too.

 

[LightHorseman]

Yes we were lucky. I had one love for two years who I lost my virginity to at age 13. Our relationship lasted until I was almost 16. After I lost him, I engaged in this promiscuity out of a broken heart and also a way to seek that I was still lovable. I didn't like the promiscuity but I went that after a broken heart and I would cry after the sex act because I didn't like being promiscuous, so I stopped it earlier than others. All it did was make me sad and feel dirty. I then got raped several times because I refused to be with a man who I wasn't going to marry. I got laughed at and raped. Being a product of the "love generation" in California was kind a hell.

Love is an abstract word. We can love 50 millions things a day yet really "love" none of them. For instance, I love my cat and can be charitable to my cat, but I can also love my new blouse but I cannot be charitable to my new blouse. So the "love generation" had it's good and bad points. I have some good memories along with the bad, the rapes especially "the bad".

No I can't pursude anyone of anything, but I kind of like this quote from the article I post, post No. 399:

"In this way, it seems that perceived susceptibility must be coupled with accurate knowledge in order to bring about behavioral change."

We still need to discuss accurate knowledge and double check our resources. Don't believe everything you read on the internet! Keep checking for good resources such as Africa dot gov. Find a penpal there, ask questions. These are people from third world countries without much education and they are broke. Men have to go long journies to find some money, they may be gone six months! They stop at prostitutes along the way. Some believe having anal sex is not adultery as it cannot produce a child. We have to look at facts too.

Tragic, tragic stuff. Um... what has any of it got to do with homosexuality?

 

[one11]

Tragic, tragic stuff. Um... what has any of it got to do with homosexuality?

We're discussion promiscuity and it's relation to the cleanliness laws and the relation to what is truly "unclean" that can relate to the colon and anal cavity and their relation to AIDS.

Also you asking me that is like asking what do animals have to do with homosexulity? yet you went at it for silly pages.

If you don't want to read my posts, I'm sure there is an ignore button rather your being rude period, Sir.

 

[one11]

Exactly. STD's are a risk to anyone who is promiscous, sexuality irrelvant on the matter.

Case in point I'm gay, I've slept with one person, she was my first and only partner and I hers. Zero risk of an STD there.

And zero risk of a child there. Which is another point in scripture why God said no marriage, as this could not give God what he wanted -- "friends". There are other reasons we lose our virginity blood to a man. All God's covenants were / are blood covenants including marriage. Marriage is supposed to be a blood covenant between man and woman. " by the shedding of the virgin blood. And the man shall leave his mother and father and cleave unto his wife and the two shall become one flesh".

While I am for same sex unions as I think this is a secular concept, I am not for changing the Christian viewpoint of one man and one woman as being what marriage is defined as.

This is where I stand on homosexuality. Will I ever change? No, I have prayed to God and he says to me "no". I've been praying for days and all I hear is "no", no to same sex marriage but no particular feeling of same sex unions in my spirit do I feel. I think that is a secular concept. I think I've prayed enough... so now all I can do is pray for each and everyone one of you to pray to God about it.

 

[LightHorseman]

And zero risk of a child there. Which is another point in scripture why God said no marriage, as this could not give God what he wanted -- "friends". There are other reasons we lose our virginity blood to a man. All God's covenants were / are blood covenants including marriage. Marriage is supposed to be a blood covenant between man and woman. " by the shedding of the virgin blood. And the man shall leave his mother and father and cleave unto his wife and the two shall become one flesh".

While I am for same sex unions as I think this is a secular concept, I am not for changing the Christian viewpoint of one man and one woman as being what marriage is defined as.

This is where I stand on homosexuality. Will I ever change? No, I have prayed to God and he says to me "no". I've been praying for days and all I hear is "no", no to same sex marriage but no particular feeling of same sex unions in my spirit do I feel. I think that is a secular concept. I think I've prayed enough... so now all I can do is pray for each and everyone one of you to pray to God about it.

So, should infertile heterosexuals be allowed to marry? No chance of a child there either...

 

[one11]

So, should infertile heterosexuals be allowed to marry? No chance of a child there either...

Yes because they can adopt. A child should be raised with both a mother and a father and God said we are to take care of orphans. So some couples could be childless for the sake of being able to adopt. This is God's command too for us to take care of widows and orphans.

I'm sorry Sir, this is where I stand on this issue. I may write out a blog of what I believe because there is no reason for me to keep going around and around with circular reasoning.

Best of luck to you.

 

[LightHorseman]

Yes because they can adopt. A child should be raised with both a mother and a father and God said we are to take care of orphans. So some couples could be childless for the sake of being able to adopt. This is God's command too for us to take care of widows and orphans.

I'm sorry Sir, this is where I stand on this issue. I may write out a blog of what I believe because there is no reason for me to keep going around and around with circular reasoning.

Best of luck to you.

a. Homosexual couples can adopt
b.How about an infertile couple who don't have any intention of adopting, should THEY be allowed to marry?

 

[LogosRhema]

a. Homosexual couples can adopt
b.How about an infertile couple who don't have any intention of adopting, should THEY be allowed to marry?

b. Yes and I hope they... well ya know... All the time. I am bold enough to say as such!

 

[Texas Lynn]

There is evidence to support this. Also, some Africian and Islamic beliefs are that anal sex is not seen as adultery and also that it cannot produce a child. Producing a child for Allah is seen through vaginal/penile intercourse only and thus this sex is sacred for one's wife only.

Research focusing on the effects of beliefs of susceptibility to AIDS indicates that adolescents and adults who report high perceived risk for AIDS practice safer sexual behaviors, whereas those who perceive low risk for contracting AIDS report practicing unsafe sexual behaviors (Gray & Saracino, 1989; Villarruel et al., 1998). However, in a study of health behavior in Kenya, perceived susceptibility to AIDS was not a significant predictor of condom use (Volk & Koopman, 2001). According to the authors of this study, the failure of perceived susceptibility to predict behavior most likely resulted from participants’ misconceptions about the origins and transmission of AIDS. For example, some participants reported the belief that anal sex was a safe alternative to vaginal sex (Volk & Koopman, 2001). For these individuals, misconceptions, or lack of accurate knowledge about AIDS, resulted in inaccurate assessments of susceptibility. In this way, it seems that perceived susceptibility must be coupled with accurate knowledge in order to bring about behavioral change.

http://www.westafricareview.com/vol3.2/uwalaka-matsuo.html

None of this supports the argument.

 

[wayseer]

Um... what has any of it got to do with homosexuality?

You might like to re-read the OP.

 

[HaloHope]

And zero risk of a child there.

Always adoption to be considered for us further down the line in our relationship. Certainly think we can provide a good home to some children without giving birth to them. It does not phase me in the least that we can't have children together.

Which is another point in scripture why God said no marriage, as this could not give God what he wanted -- "friends".

Im not sure which verse your reffering to here, could you please provide?

There are other reasons we lose our virginity blood to a man. All God's covenants were / are blood covenants including marriage.

*shudders* Im pretty glad I wont be losing my virginity blood to a man to be perfectly honest, I cant imagine many things more unpleasent than hetrosexual sex/penatrative sex in general.

Marriage is supposed to be a blood covenant between man and woman. " by the shedding of the virgin blood. And the man shall leave his mother and father and cleave unto his wife and the two shall become one flesh".

I tend to see this as a generic example for marriage, the majority of people are hetrosexual and this verse is evidently written to reach to the majority. It never says "only" man and woman at any point in the Bible.

While I am for same sex unions as I think this is a secular concept, I am not for changing the Christian viewpoint of one man and one woman as being what marriage is defined as.

I actually think thats a reasonable enough standpoint, I just happen to disagree, it's the usual "seperate but equal" thing.

This is where I stand on homosexuality. Will I ever change? No, I have prayed to God and he says to me "no". I've been praying for days and all I hear is "no", no to same sex marriage but no particular feeling of same sex unions in my spirit do I feel. I think that is a secular concept. I think I've prayed enough... so now all I can do is pray for each and everyone one of you to pray to God about it.

Ive prayed to God and he tells me its fine within the grounds of commitment and monogamy and that love is the key thing that makes a marriage. To be fair Ive never felt closer to him than since I met my partner and it was her who convinced me to come back to Christianity in the first place.

 

[one11]

Always adoption to be considered for us further down the line in our relationship. Certainly think we can provide a good home to some children without giving birth to them. It does not phase me in the least that we can't have children together.



Im not sure which verse your reffering to here, could you please provide?



*shudders* Im pretty glad I wont be losing my virginity blood to a man to be perfectly honest, I cant imagine many things more unpleasent than hetrosexual sex/penatrative sex in general.



I tend to see this as a generic example for marriage, the majority of people are hetrosexual and this verse is evidently written to reach to the majority. It never says "only" man and woman at any point in the Bible.




I actually think thats a reasonable enough standpoint, I just happen to disagree, it's the usual "seperate but equal" thing.



Ive prayed to God and he tells me its fine within the grounds of commitment and monogamy and that love is the key thing that makes a marriage. To be fair Ive never felt closer to him than since I met my partner and it was her who convinced me to come back to Christianity in the first place.

I don't have the exact scriptures right now where called calls us "friends" and said he wanted "friends", but I do recall reading them after I had first loved a Christian song called "I Am A Friend of God". That Christian song has the lyrics "I am a friend of God, he calls me friend". I always loved that song and then I came across the scriptures where he does call us "friend". So that song is scriptural.

I'd need to do some more research to find those exact scriptures, but I also know he said he wanted godly offspring too. I found this one for now.

Malachi 2:10

Judah Unfaithful

10 Have we not all one Father ? Did not one God create us? Why do we profane the covenant of our fathers by breaking faith with one another? 11 Judah has broken faith. A detestable thing has been committed in Israel and in Jerusalem: Judah has desecrated the sanctuary the LORD loves, by marrying the daughter of a foreign god. 12 As for the man who does this, whoever he may be, may the LORD cut him off from the tents of Jacob —even though he brings offerings to the LORD Almighty.
13 Another thing you do: You flood the LORD's altar with tears. You weep and wail because he no longer pays attention to your offerings or accepts them with pleasure from your hands. 14 You ask, "Why?" It is because the LORD is acting as the witness between you and the wife of your youth, because you have broken faith with her, though she is your partner, the wife of your marriage covenant.
15 Has not the LORD made them one? In flesh and spirit they are his. And why one? Because he was seeking godly offspring. So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith with the wife of your youth.

 

[Texas Lynn]

I don't have the exact scriptures right now where called calls us "friends" and said he wanted "friends", but I do recall reading them after I had first loved a Christian song called "I Am A Friend of God". That Christian song has the lyrics "I am a friend of God, he calls me friend". I always loved that song and then I came across the scriptures where he does call us "friend". So that song is scriptural.

I'd need to do some more research to find those exact scriptures, but I also know he said he wanted godly offspring too. I found this one for now.

Malachi 2:10

Judah Unfaithful

10 Have we not all one Father ? Did not one God create us? Why do we profane the covenant of our fathers by breaking faith with one another? 11 Judah has broken faith. A detestable thing has been committed in Israel and in Jerusalem: Judah has desecrated the sanctuary the LORD loves, by marrying the daughter of a foreign god. 12 As for the man who does this, whoever he may be, may the LORD cut him off from the tents of Jacob —even though he brings offerings to the LORD Almighty.
13 Another thing you do: You flood the LORD's altar with tears. You weep and wail because he no longer pays attention to your offerings or accepts them with pleasure from your hands. 14 You ask, "Why?" It is because the LORD is acting as the witness between you and the wife of your youth, because you have broken faith with her, though she is your partner, the wife of your marriage covenant.
15 Has not the LORD made them one? In flesh and spirit they are his. And why one? Because he was seeking godly offspring. So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith with the wife of your youth.

So John McCain was speaking in code when he called his audiences "My Friends..." ? I thought all he was doing was inventing a drinking game so the tipplers would take a sip whenver he said it and then it would get named after him (Like "Hi, Bob!" from The Bob Newhart Show).

 

[Zeena]

Case in point I'm gay..

Aught we not rather to receive the image of God in Christ Jesus than to go about recreating ourselves?

 

[plmarquette]

romans 1.26 ....unnatural affection....

..........your choice.....your life.....your future....your peace of mind......
just don't ask society to validate your choice at others expense....

 

[HaloHope]

Aught we not rather to receive the image of God in Christ Jesus than to go about recreating ourselves?

Ive no idea how this statement relates to what you quoted.

 

[Zeena]

romans 1.26 ....unnatural affection....

Romans 1:26
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

Paul is speaking TO Christians!

God will so give us up to unatural affections, to do that which should NOT be done IN LIKE as we refuse to Glorify HIM in our bodies!

..........your choice

My choice was to come to God in faith, believing He could and would save me from my sins.

.....your life

And He gave me His Life in order to overcome. For I am more than an overcomer through Him, who Loved me.

.....your future

I am therefore a partaker of His Nature. His past, present and future. It's not mine anymore, but His. In receiving the Person of Christ, I recieved crucifixion, burial and ressurection in and with Him, for I was in Him who is True. I recieved Eternal Life! The past, present and future are all one in Eternity.

....your peace of mind

He is become my peace.

Ephesians 2:14
For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

just don't ask society to validate your choice at others expense....

I'm not asking society to validate a Godly perspective. But I am stating the Truth for those who have ears to hear.

I do not expect societal heathens to submit to the law of God.

Romans 8:7-8
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

But I do expect regenerated persons, filled with the Holy Spirit to be subject, accordingly as Christ has subjected Himself.

Romans 8:9-14
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Colossians 3:1-10
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

 

[Zeena]

Case in point I'm gay..

Aught we not rather to receive the image of God in Christ Jesus than to go about recreating ourselves?

Ive no idea how this statement relates to what you quoted.

It relates perfectly according to the teaching of Scripture posted in my last post.

Colossians 3:10
..put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

As Christians we must have repented of who we were, who we had become as the due penalty of our sins! We were scarred for LIFE! Our spiritual image was scarred beyond all recognition of the True man, Jesus Christ!

Have we repented, or believed in vain?

For if we have [repented], we can no longer hold the image of who we once were. We can no longer hold the IDOL of who we were! For that idol DIED with Christ on His cross!

Shall we AGAIN scarr the man created in holiness after Christ Jesus, Who's image we've received?

Hebrews 10:26-31
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

If we have died with Christ, shall we not also Live with Him?

Hebrews 10:38-39
38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. 39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

 

[Polycarp1]

Romans 1:26
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

Paul is speaking TO Christians!

God will so give us up to unatural affections, to do that which should NOT be done IN LIKE as we refuse to Glorify HIM in our bodies!

My choice was to come to God in faith, believing He could and would save me from my sins.

And He gave me His Life in order to overcome. For I am more than an overcomer through Him, who Loved me.

I am therefore a partaker of His Nature. His past, present and future. It's not mine anymore, but His. In receiving the Person of Christ, I recieved crucifixion, burial and ressurection in and with Him, for I was in Him who is True. I recieved Eternal Life! The past, present and future are all one in Eternity.

He is become my peace.

Ephesians 2:14
For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

I'm not asking society to validate a Godly perspective. But I am stating the Truth for those who have ears to hear.

I do not expect societal heathens to submit to the law of God.

Romans 8:7-8
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

But I do expect regenerated persons, filled with the Holy Spirit to be subject, accordingly as Christ has subjected Himself.

Romans 8:9-14
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Colossians 3:1-10
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Well, if we're throwing around Scripture quotes, let's look at that passage in Romans, where we find the following other criteria: "malicious, whisperers of gossip, proud, boasters, without understanding, without natural affection, implacable unmerciful."

To me these seem to describe those who condemn others who have taken Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior for something they [the others] claim cannot be changed except by miracle, but they [the malicious and unmerciful] decide to take on themselves to judge otherwise.

Jesus said "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy." And he said, "Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged, and with what measure you mete, it shall be meted out to you again." There are those who rightly point out that this is not prohibitory but monitory, noting that we are also commanded to judge righteous judgment. But with what righteousness? We are commanded that our righteousness must exceed that of the Scribes and Pharisees [who of course He condemned for using Scripture to excuse their own offenses but to condemn their fellow man for his] -- but according to Christ, the righteous man is humble, the servant of others, merciful, prodigal of compassion and generosity, ever ready to forgive and to love those who stand against him.

"If you love Me," says Jesus, "keep My commandments." And what are those commandments? On four occasions, Jesus summarizes, or blesses the summary of another, the Law and the Prophets condensed into succinct phrasing. Three times it is "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind, and all your strength. And you shall love your neighbor as yourself." The fourth it is "Whatsoever you would have others do unto you, do therefore likewise unto them." Further, He makes clear in the Parable of the Last Judgment (also called Sheep and Goats) that "Inasmuch as you did/did not do it unto one of the least of these, [I shall count it as that] you did it unto Me." And finally, St. John says, "If a man say, I love God, and hates his brother, he is a liar, for he that loves not his brother whom he as seen, how can he love God, whom he has not seen?"

That carnal mind of the old man does not equate to sexual desire -- it consists in holding worldly attitudes contrary to God's commandments -- like the desire to sit in judgment over others, to lie about them, to condemn them, to excuse oneself, to refuse to give compassion and understanding. And many of the self-styled "REAL Christians" of this board are among the greatest of offenders.

It's not my place to judge. But it is my place to defend those they attack, and it is my place to warn. He who has ears, let him hear.