homeofmew'sr opinions are not aligned with the actual evidence. The evidence in favor of homeschooling is mounting, over years of homeschoolers taking standardized testing, and their scores being compared to those of public schools.I see home schoolers boast and boast their kid is advanced. Then they have no evidence for this at all.
^ Exactly my point and this is what happens to me I get home schooled kids coming to me because their parents can't do the work, huge problem . Now for you you'd probably pay the nice man a decent price however I get a lot of Christian home schoolers clamoring for a discounts because they are in my same church ect. People like me can't do this.
edited to fix font, size etc. Sorry, still learning how to post here.Homeschooling shouldn't be done only at the dining room table with Mommy as teacher. That's no better than the institutional school experience.
Homeschooling "should" be done the way the parents deem is best for their own children. Whether they do it at the table with Mommy (or Daddy) as teacher, or they run themselves ragged, driving all over the countryside from co-op to co-op, the data is showing that homeschool works. Some children do best with workbooks, some children do better with hands-on.
There are a few who give homeschoolers a bad name, who provide a sub-standard education to their children. In many ways, while I like the freedom of homeschooling, I wish there was required testing to catch those sub-standard homeschoolers.
In my state everyone must do standardized testing in grades 3, 6, and 9. A homeschooler must get remedial help if their student scores below 13%, which is determined by the PS scores each year. I know many homeschoolers who do the standardized testing every year, because their students think it is fun.
My own children's scores last year placed them several years ahead of their grade level, in the 90% and 100% ranges. In one area which we haven't focused in the last couple of years, they scored slightly below average, in the 40%, no way near 13%. No surprises. Their average scores were still a couple of years above their grade level. This year they are motivated to do two years of work in the subject they scored lower in...their choice, not mine.
It is disconcerting that people feel they have a right to judge other people's children and education, just because they are homeschooling. People don't look at their PS neighbors' children and ask for their grades, or call their PS teachers and school "substandard" even if that child is in remedial courses in the PS system. However, when a homeschool needs help a complex math problem, anti-homeschoolers jump to condemn their parents, even when their parents are proactive in procuring a tutor.
homeofmew, have you you shared your disdain for your homeschooling church members, so they know where you stand? Do you talk poorly about your PS students and their families?
Regarding Universities accepting homeschooled children: homeschooled children are not just "accepted" but they are embraced, because they have proven they are more likely to succeed in University. Homeschooled students are used to taking more responsibility in their own education. They have not been accustomed to being spoon fed the information in dumbed-down little bits, but know how to dig in to the material and teach themselves.
Now I've never seen a homeschooled child go all the way through high school and emerge with a normal life. Often they go to college and drop out, because the experience is overwhelming. Also, a parent has no business homeschooling if they are not sufficiently educated themselves. I know a lot of people say they can do it, but I think that's because they have no idea what they're doing. Also, there is no way a truly homeschooled high schooler is getting all the library and lab resources available to them to be well-rounded and ready for any program in college. Of course, if they are utilizing the community college, or other accredited outside resources, that is entirely different. Then again, I don't consider that strictly "homeschooling" any more.
CloudByDay, your research doesn't take into account number of years homeschooled or the grade level of the homeschooler, nor does it account for college graduation rates by degree type. I think that's crucial to the whole picture. I do think most people are familiar with the statistics on homeschooling in general, and how they are favorable in terms of standardized tests. You also have to consider the demographics; homeschool families are highly involved in their child's education. So the academic prospects for the child are high in that regard. I think the question is, can homeschooling through high school prepare a student the same way that an accredited school can? I have yet to see any research supporting that.
I come from an area where homeschooling is common, and it can be a good option for young children. Most of the homeschooling families I know circulated through public and private schools, and the parents were very involved in them. It's always disappointing to see parents with a heavy volunteering presence at the school suddenly bow out and homeschool instead.
If they were homeschooling their young children, or if they were circulating through private and public schools, how could they be volunteering at your school too? They can't be doing all those things at the same time. Why are you not complaining about the PS parents who are neither volunteering nor homeschooling? You seem fixated on the families who chose to homeschool, rather than the families who use the system, yet give nothing back.
It sounds like you have known a couple of homeschool families, and you are blending your perceptions of their stories together to formulate a case against all homeschoolers.
But their children typically return for high school. You are only aware of the few homeschoolers who are under your radar. You have no idea about the ones who have never used public or private schools and who have no need to volunteer because they are home doing all the work for themselves.
Now I've never seen a homeschooled child go all the way through high school and emerge with a normal life. Often they go to college and drop out, because the experience is overwhelming.
We have very good homeschooling friends we met when they lived near us, but they now live in Alaska. They are some of those "fundamentalist types" that Proudmomxmany talked about. Their family didn't join any outside co-ops, did church at home, and their children were the sweetest, well grounded children I have ever known. Our children were academically ahead of theirs in some subjects, and their children were ahead of ours in other areas. This happens even in PS where all the children have the same subjects and teachers. However, if I wanted to pick their family and lifestyle apart, I'm sure I could find "faults" but hey, everyone is different! People who have an axe to grind against homeschooling, overstep all kinds of normal boundaries in an effort to find fault with homeschooling families.
The Alaska family's oldest child started taking college classes when he was 16. He didn't go wild while he was on campus. He has been teaching their oldest daughter math, using his college texts. She is now telling our daughter (they keep in touch over the phone) that she is going to start college classes soon.
Now I've never seen a homeschooled child go all the way through high school and emerge with a normal life. Often they go to college and drop out, because the experience is overwhelming.
This is hard to believe. How many homeschooling children have you known? If this is true, are those people truly homeschooling or are they just using the word "homeschooling" as a guise for not doing anything? All the homeschooling families I know are committed to doing the very best they can, based on their criteria, and in conjunction with their state laws.
I don't know your criteria for "a normal life." Could you share that with us?
I have lived in two communities where there were at least 3,000 homeschooling children combined, coming from a few hundred families. Almost every homeschooler I have known (or heard about through the grapevine) has had a "normal life" after homeschooling, whether they went to University, joined the Armed Forces, got a job, or got married and started a family. There are many paths to being a productive citizen in society.
I have personally known of a few homeschoolers who rebelled as teens, just like some PS children, but they were by far the minority. Even those that rebelled got their acts together, got jobs or joined the military, and did not end up addicted to drugs or on public assistance. I have heard of only one homeschooler in the two communites where we have lived, who went to prison. One out of several thousand ain't bad.
Perhaps you were already biased against homeschooling because their presence threatens your job security, or causes you to feel insecure or guilty about your own choices? I don't know how many times I've been told by a PS mom, "I admire you....I could never homeschool my kids...I am just too selfish...My children would never listen to me... we would kill each other...I just don't want to live on one income...Being with my kids all day would drive me crazy...I would like to but I don't think I could learn where and how to find curriculum...I don't think I could learn to teach different subjects...."yada, yada, yada.
The common denominator to every one of these instances, is I didn't tell them that they should homeschool, I didn't hint it. I didn't even think it. Their own consciences compared themselves to me. I would never hint or look down on someone who doesn't homeschool. It is a personal decision, not to be taken lightly. If the person is a Christian, they should homeschool only if they feel led by God to homeschool, so they can draw upon His strength to guide them, and get them through the challenges one day at a time. If I didn't have the help of God, I wouldn't have the emotional, spiritual and physical strength to continue doing it day after day.
I used to be a public school teacher before I was married and had children. I will never forget the union pressure that came around every year. I knew several teachers who absolutely hated the stress of their job, and who were counting down every day until they retired. (I was in my late 20's and no where near retiring. I watched these teachers with interest, because I am one who wants to learn from others, and not have to go through the school of hard knocks.) They weren't bad people. They were just people in a bad situation. They loved the the subject matter they taught, but they didn't love the stress of the messed up culture and the disrespect of the students, or the constant demands of the School District. They needed a paycheck. They had to pretend they were there because they loved their students, and that they weren't there for the paycheck. They had to jump through hoops, on a regular basis to prove to the school district they had the qualifications to teach, and yet the students as a whole were getting lower and lower scores on standardized testing. This meant more and more training for the teachers.
The paycheck is one reason teachers are threatened by homeschooling. If every family homeschooled their children, and pooled their own resources for tutors among themselves, there would be no one in PS, and the teachers wouldn't have a job.
Another reason teachers are threatened by homeschooling, has been very well articulated by akmom and homeofmew.
Also, a parent has no business homeschooling if they are not sufficiently educated themselves. I know a lot of people say they can do it, but I think that's because they have no idea what they're doing.
"Uneducated" parents are turning out well educated students who score higher on standardized tests than PS students taught by "well educated" teachers. This has got to sting, and be very scary, especially when someone's job and money come into play.
Back to your statement that homeschoolers drop out of college: I have been homeschooling for over 18 years, in two different homeschooling communities, and I don't know of one homeschooler who dropped out of college. I'm sure there are some, just like some PS students drop out of college. All of the homeschooled children I know personally and know about through other families are doing very well in college.
So far, in the community where we now live, I know of three homeschoolers who got full ride scholarships to college. All three scholarships are for undergraduate studies at liberal arts colleges, but one wants to be a lawyer, the other a physician, and I don't know what the third one's long term goals are. I know another girl who is applying to Julliard, and she wants to become a college professor with a focus on piano. She has competed in college level competitions and is hoping to be offered a scholarship.
Look up the eBricks Lego store. It was started by a homeschool boy when he was a kid, and he ran it from home. He went to college and studied business. His lego business now has its own building and is big enough to support his own young family.
Also, there is no way a truly homeschooled high schooler is getting all the library and lab resources available to them to be well-rounded and ready for any program in college.
What do you mean by "truly homeschooled." You might look up your state's homeschool law, before you begin to interject your own opinion into what is "truly homeschooled" and what is not. The laws are very minimal and broad, and it sounds like you have a very narrow mental picture of what you think homeschooling is. Evidently, homeschooling children are getting their library and lab resources covered sufficiently in order to score well enough on the ACT and SAT not only be admitted into Universities across the nation, but get scholarships.
Of course, if they are utilizing the community college, or other accredited outside resources, that is entirely different. Then again, I don't consider that strictly "homeschooling" any more.
akmom, again, look at the homeschool laws for each state. Your personal opinion has no bearing on the reality of what homeschooling actually is. "Homeschooling" means that the parents, not government paid teachers and counselors, are deciding the best way to educate their children, but that the parents are adhering to a very minimal list of requirements. How they meet those requirements is their own business. Whether the parents do the teaching themselves, or pay tuition to a college or tutor, homeschooling means it is the parents deciding their child's educational path.
akmom. You're all over the place in your last paragraph, and they are all straw man arguments. Sigh..., I'll take it one phrase at a time.
CloudByDay, your research doesn't take into account number of years homeschooled or the grade level of the homeschooler,
It doesn't matter. Homeschool standardized test scores are higher, no matter what grade level. Usually when a child begins homeschooling part way through a PS education, it is because they were not doing so well in PS, and they begin to do better, and score higher on standardized tests after they begin homeschooling.
nor does it account for college graduation rates by degree type.
And why does this matter? Can you provide this data for PS students? Are you willing to say that if Kansas doesn't produce as many engineers as Silicon Valley, CA, that Kansas'es PS are failing?
I think that's crucial to the whole picture.
The "whole picture" is that homeschooled children are getting, on the whole, a good education, which is already being measured by their standardized test scores, and the fact that most homeschoolers who want to go to college, actually get in, and do well.
I do think most people are familiar with the statistics on homeschooling in general, and how they are favorable in terms of standardized tests. You also have to consider the demographics; homeschool families are highly involved in their child's education. So the academic prospects for the child are high in that regard.
Yes, and your problem with all that is...?
I think the question is, can homeschooling through high school prepare a student the same way that an accredited school can? I have yet to see any research reporting that.
See the top of my post for a link to research proving homeschooling is not only working, but is turning out better students, not only in high school, but college. Please do some research yourself. You won't be able to find any research proving that "the whole picture" as you call it, is bad. You will only find a few bad apples, but that don't spoil the whole bunch, girl.
I hope I've addressed all your concerns.
CloudByDay
I think there's a problem with using the blanket term "homeschooling". There are many different styles of hs'ing. There are those who attempt K-12 using a canned curriculum and never moving from the dining room table or local computer terminal.
I may have to consider putting the children in school for the rest of this school year due to some problems my husband is having. We'll see what happens...
The lifelong homeschoolers, totally different, odd bunch. Not involved in the community and have nothing positive to say about it. ProudMommy describes them as ultraconservative, but I don't know about that terminology. I consider myself conservative, but there's not much overlap in ideology...
I am pretty much a stay-at-home mom, despite a disposable part-time job. Don't need my job, could stop and homeschool any time I wanted, have considered it extensively. Personally I feel like anything I could teach my children, I can teach them in the evenings, weekends, holidays, summer vacation... whenever. Sending them to school doesn't cut into it that much. So I chose instead to send them to public school, help out the classroom regularly, and maintain a learning environment at home too. Works for us, perfectly happy with it, and know a few parents who share that philosophy. I don't get paid for my time in the classroom; I do it for my kids,
My perspective on it is, if people feel like they have to pull their kids out of public school to get their grades up, then maybe... just maybe... all those parents could instead pool their efforts and contribute to the school instead. Then maybe public schools would have the support they needed to be effective and we wouldn't have this mass movement to homeschool. Just a thought.
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