Home defense scenario

[Walter and Deborah]

Thanks for your service sir. Your correct on the military requirement in Israel. I think this was a main issue in their current election. The students studying priesthood don't feel they should have to attend the military. I never thought much of the Israeli guns. The Uzi is accurate but the bolt group weighs too much and the charging handle was the rear sight. Awkward design. The Galil looked ugly with that square block foregrip but one day a friend brought one over and I got a chance to operate it. Very nice and extremely accurate with open sights and although ugly, was ergonomically pleasing. I passed the Galil up and purchased a German HK 91 instead. Regretted it ever since. Now they cost thousands if you can even find one.

I never checked into the issue.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Preppers are not the same as "survivalists."
We have been preppers for about 7 years now. We do not own a gun, have a "bug out" bag, or have any sort of shelter. We are in our mid 60s and plant to "bug out in place." No way we are going to tramp through the woods or down the highway. It is safer at home. We live a couple miles from an Air Force base where nuclear weapons are stored. We have military people living on all sides. I suspect in a Stuff hits the fan scenario, there will be heightened security around here. We have a thought about running to some other place. But you do not know that the place you run to may be the worst place off all. You may be running into the very thing you are trying to escape. We have seen whole communities leave the coast as a hurricane approached, only to run right into the path of the storm. In the end you have to trust God. I mean we are still doing all the preps and doing out best to encourage family, friends, and neighbors to prepare... but in the end you just have to believe the Lord is going to see you through. You cannot plan for every possible scenario. Do you best to prepare... but there is no substitute for trusting and listening to God.
The verse "Be ye still and know that I am God" can be translated "throw down your weapons and let me show you what I can do."
That is pretty much our plan.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Stuff has hit the fan and it’s 3am when you hear a noise coming from your kitchen. You grab your gun and move to ambush the intruder. Upon entering the kitchen you find a very beautiful lady rummaging through your pantry. She immediately starts begging for food and says that she will do anything if you help her. The lady states that she is alone, but you really don't know if there is a male counterpart waiting in the shadows somewhere. If you feed her and send her on her way, she may tell others you have food. If others come they may kill you and your family and take what they want. Should you invite her into your home and take on another mouth to feed? Maybe just put a bullet in her head and kick her into burn pit out back? That would solve all the problems but then you would be a murderer. Or could you consider this self defense, since she has the potential to cause future grave harm to your family. You can’t really send her away since she has seen your stockpile of food and you have only enough for you and your family. What would you do?

Use your tranquilizer gun
mix food with Rohypnol
Fatten her up for dinner

or just adopt her.

 

[createdtoworship]

Stuff has hit the fan and it’s 3am when you hear a noise coming from your kitchen. You grab your gun and move to ambush the intruder. Upon entering the kitchen you find a very beautiful lady rummaging through your pantry. She immediately starts begging for food and says that she will do anything if you help her. The lady states that she is alone, but you really don't know if there is a male counterpart waiting in the shadows somewhere. If you feed her and send her on her way, she may tell others you have food. If others come they may kill you and your family and take what they want. Should you invite her into your home and take on another mouth to feed? Maybe just put a bullet in her head and kick her into burn pit out back? That would solve all the problems but then you would be a murderer. Or could you consider this self defense, since she has the potential to cause future grave harm to your family. You can’t really send her away since she has seen your stockpile of food and you have only enough for you and your family. What would you do?

I don't typically recommend fire arms for home self defense, at least not hand guns. Maybe an AR15. Those at least women and children can handle. A hand gun typically has a strong spring on the trigger and women can't handle them. I am sure there are others out there, but I just had a woman tell me she was not a gun person after going to her first gun safety course. And many are not. Killing someone is a serious situation. What I typically do is get the very best pepper gel I can find. There is a sabre red that is I believe 1.8 ounces and can shoot twenty feet. That is hard for women to shoot too, but they can use their thumb and if they have used it before or practiced with a practice can they should be good at it. And if you are not killing someone you may feel braver pulling the trigger. When they are confused and cannot see, you can put them outside your home, and call the police. Or if you have hand cuffs or zip ties you can bind their hands behind their back at this point. But mainly you just pray over the situation, does God want you to pepper spray a hungry homeless woman? Maybe He wants you to drive her down to the soup kitchen, or maybe take them out for lunch, if you don't want them to see your stash of food, or better yet take them grocery shopping and fill a back pack with cans of stuff they can use for weeks. This is a much better option than simply shooting someone and buring them in your back yard.

 

[Aldebaran]

I don't typically recommend fire arms for home self defense, at least not hand guns. Maybe an AR15. Those at least women and children can handle. A hand gun typically has a strong spring on the trigger and women can't handle them. I am sure there are others out there, but I just had a woman tell me she was not a gun person after going to her first gun safety course. And many are not. Killing someone is a serious situation. What I typically do is get the very best pepper gel I can find. There is a sabre red that is I believe 1.8 ounces and can shoot twenty feet. That is hard for women to shoot too, but they can use their thumb and if they have used it before or practiced with a practice can they should be good at it. And if you are not killing someone you may feel braver pulling the trigger. When they are confused and cannot see, you can put them outside your home, and call the police. Or if you have hand cuffs or zip ties you can bind their hands behind their back at this point. But mainly you just pray over the situation, does God want you to pepper spray a hungry homeless woman? Maybe He wants you to drive her down to the soup kitchen, or maybe take them out for lunch, if you don't want them to see your stash of food, or better yet take them grocery shopping and fill a back pack with cans of stuff they can use for weeks. This is a much better option than simply shooting someone and buring them in your back yard.

The handguns with the hardest triggers to pull are usually double action revolvers fired in double action mode. Easier triggers can be found in most semi-autos, especially single actions like the 1911. I'm a man and still had trouble shooting accurately with a DA revolver. Much easier with a semi-auto.

 

[createdtoworship]

The handguns with the hardest triggers to pull are usually double action revolvers fired in double action mode. Easier triggers can be found in most semi-autos, especially single actions like the 1911. I'm a man and still had trouble shooting accurately with a DA revolver. Much easier with a semi-auto.

They have to make them hard to pull so they don't miss fire. Some are harder than others. I remember as a teen ager having problems with semi autos and pistols both when my dad took me to the range.

 

[Aldebaran]

They have to make them hard to pull so they don't miss fire. Some are harder than others. I remember as a teen ager having problems with semi autos and pistols both when my dad took me to the range.

With a semiauto, the trigger can be lighter because the internal striker that hits the primer on the cartridge is partially cocked from the inertia of the previous round firing. On some of them, the external hammer is already cocked from the same thing. With a revolver, the finger pulling the trigger has to [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] the hammer all the way back and release it, unless you manually [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] the hammer between shots. Then just a light trigger pull releases the hammer.
Yeah, I actually have some problems with semiautos myself, but not with pulling the trigger. My problem comes with pulling back the slide to chamber the first round. Most guys seem to do it without effort, but I find it difficult to hold the gun in my right hand and pull back the slide with my left hand. I usually end up holding the gun in my left hand to make it easier to pull the slide back with my right.

 

[Darkhorse]

Yeah, I actually have some problems with semiautos myself, but not with pulling the trigger. My problem comes with pulling back the slide to chamber the first round. Most guys seem to do it without effort, but I find it difficult to hold the gun in my right hand and pull back the slide with my left hand. I usually end up holding the gun in my left hand to make it easier to pull the slide back with my right.

My wife has the same problem with the 45 1911 she is learning to use. A good alternate method of racking the slide is to grip the main section of the slide (in between the sights) with your left hand (4 fingers & thumb), then push the gun receiver forward with your right hand on the grip.

Believe it or not, it's a lot easier.

 

[Aldebaran]

My wife has the same problem with the 45 1911 she is learning to use. A good alternate method of racking the slide is to grip the main section of the slide (in between the sights) with your left hand (4 fingers & thumb), then push the gun receiver forward with your right hand on the grip.

Believe it or not, it's a lot easier.

Hmmm. I'll have to try that the next time I'm playing around with it.

 

[Darkhorse]

Hmmm. I'll have to try that the next time I'm playing around with it.

I left hers out by her chair in the living room so she can become familiar with it.

 

[createdtoworship]

My wife has the same problem with the 45 1911 she is learning to use. A good alternate method of racking the slide is to grip the main section of the slide (in between the sights) with your left hand (4 fingers & thumb), then push the gun receiver forward with your right hand on the grip.

Believe it or not, it's a lot easier.

I left hers out by her chair in the living room so she can become familiar with it.

not only are hand guns hard to operate for younger people and women, as we have shown in this thread, they are not very accurate. There was a video posted about a congressional defense of the AR15, and believe it or not the trigger pull is extremely easy, and women have no issues with them as opposed to the Ak47 which they seem to have more problems with. But the real winner for me is that the AR, is accurate. One issue with lethal weapons is your killing people your supposed to be loving, but I will get off my pedestal for a second on that issue. Lets say you do have to fire a round at someone, with a handgun you are way more likely to miss or hit an innocent person (which in this case would be your family). I have shot handguns before, and they are not accurate at all. Due to the short barrel. You can, like my friend get a target pistol: This russian make is very accurate and my friends girlfriend has no problems with firing it. Gun Review: CZ75 SP-01 Tactical 9mm [Updated 2018] - The Truth About Guns

Here is the video I was talking about about the AR15

but yeah, I don't condone using lethal force. I believe in the long run God will bless us if we use other options, self defense courses, martial arts, and pepper gel.

stun guns don't really work through clothes and can be a liability.

many pepper sprays have cross spray in windy areas and can affect the innocent person.

so I like the pepper gel.

But this is all just my opinion.

Jesus did seem to think that a short sword for personal protection was acceptible behavior for the disciples as they traveled in between cities, to deal with robbers and animals. That is a lethal sword. But then in other verses He mentions if someone asks you for a coat to give him a cloak too, and if someone asks you to go a mile, to go two miles. So I personally take the more passivist approach in life. Not to mention i have two special needs children, and having a fire arm around would be a liability for them. But that is sort of a secondary issue. But if I had more property or wealth to protect I would probably be more tempted to go with a gun. But hopefully I could do some other type of security, fencing, lights, dogs. Other than fire arms.

 

[Darkhorse]

I have shot handguns before, and they are not accurate at all. Due to the short barrel.

I don't mean to sound rude, but you obviously have very little experience with handguns, at least those of any quality. I recently fired 6 rounds from a 380 automatic with a 3" barrel, and hit within the target rings every time. This was with a double-action-only gun, which has a hard trigger pull for every shot. Of course, the target was only 20 feet away, but that's a realistic distance for personal defense. I know that dealing with a live, moving, hostile target is very different from a harmless piece of paper, but most defensive shoots are much closer ("close, fast, and dark").

You are correct about the much greater accuracy of rifles, which is why they are sighted in at 100 yards. They also impart much greater energy to the bullet, increasing their effect.

Rifles are the superior weapon, but the handgun you have is better than the rifle you don't have.

 

[Aldebaran]

not only are hand guns hard to operate for younger people and women, as we have shown in this thread, they are not very accurate. There was a video posted about a congressional defense of the AR15, and believe it or not the trigger pull is extremely easy, and women have no issues with them as opposed to the Ak47 which they seem to have more problems with. But the real winner for me is that the AR, is accurate. One issue with lethal weapons is your killing people your supposed to be loving, but I will get off my pedestal for a second on that issue. Lets say you do have to fire a round at someone, with a handgun you are way more likely to miss or hit an innocent person (which in this case would be your family). I have shot handguns before, and they are not accurate at all. Due to the short barrel. You can, like my friend get a target pistol: This russian make is very accurate and my friends girlfriend has no problems with firing it. Gun Review: CZ75 SP-01 Tactical 9mm [Updated 2018] - The Truth About Guns

Here is the video I was talking about about the AR15

but yeah, I don't condone using lethal force. I believe in the long run God will bless us if we use other options, self defense courses, martial arts, and pepper gel.

stun guns don't really work through clothes and can be a liability.

many pepper sprays have cross spray in windy areas and can affect the innocent person.

so I like the pepper gel.

But this is all just my opinion.

Jesus did seem to think that a short sword for personal protection was acceptible behavior for the disciples as they traveled in between cities, to deal with robbers and animals. That is a lethal sword. But then in other verses He mentions if someone asks you for a coat to give him a cloak too, and if someone asks you to go a mile, to go two miles. So I personally take the more passivist approach in life. Not to mention i have two special needs children, and having a fire arm around would be a liability for them. But that is sort of a secondary issue. But if I had more property or wealth to protect I would probably be more tempted to go with a gun. But hopefully I could do some other type of security, fencing, lights, dogs. Other than fire arms.

When it comes to handguns being less accurate, I agree that they're harder to shoot accurately when under stress. I did some testing with that theory once at the range when I was by myself. Did a bunch of push ups, the ran to the 50 yard point in a sprint, then ran back to the firing line and waited about 10 seconds and picked up my handgun and tried firing 3 quick shots at a target about 15 feet away. My hands were shaking so much that I slowed my shots down to one every 2 seconds or so and my shots were still all over the place, with 1 not even hitting the target at all. Then I tried it with an AR15, and it was much easier.

When you're nervous (like when you're defending yourself in a life-threatening encounter), your hands are going to shake, and a short barrel on a handgun wavers around much more than with a long gun. A longer barreled handgun can help this, but not as much as a 16" or 20" barrel on a rifle or shotgun.

 

[createdtoworship]

I don't mean to sound rude, but you obviously have very little experience with handguns, at least those of any quality. I recently fired 6 rounds from a 380 automatic with a 3" barrel, and hit within the target rings every time. This was with a double-action-only gun, which has a hard trigger pull for every shot. Of course, the target was only 20 feet away, but that's a realistic distance for personal defense. I know that dealing with a live, moving, hostile target is very different from a harmless piece of paper, but most defensive shoots are much closer ("close, fast, and dark").

You are correct about the much greater accuracy of rifles, which is why they are sighted in at 100 yards. They also impart much greater energy to the bullet, increasing their effect.

Rifles are the superior weapon, but the handgun you have is better than the rifle you don't have.

yes of course you can hit a target at 20 feet, but not accurately. That is what I am getting at, even at 20 feet you will not get a cluster in the middle. Which means it's not technically accurate.

 

[createdtoworship]

When it comes to handguns being less accurate, I agree that they're harder to shoot accurately when under stress. I did some testing with that theory once at the range when I was by myself. Did a bunch of push ups, the ran to the 50 yard point in a sprint, then ran back to the firing line and waited about 10 seconds and picked up my handgun and tried firing 3 quick shots at a target about 15 feet away. My hands were shaking so much that I slowed my shots down to one every 2 seconds or so and my shots were still all over the place, with 1 not even hitting the target at all. Then I tried it with an AR15, and it was much easier.

When you're nervous (like when you're defending yourself in a life-threatening encounter), your hands are going to shake, and a short barrel on a handgun wavers around much more than with a long gun. A longer barreled handgun can help this, but not as much as a 16" or 20" barrel on a rifle or shotgun.

that is because with AR15 you have two hands typically spaced farther apart. One hand or two hands closely grouped will shake more, then you have recoil, and also hard trigger pulls, which make handguns for personal defense not as good. Granted if you are a police officer in swat or other tactical group (para military), a side arm is a necessity, you can fire around corners etc, while a small rifle you simply cannot do that with. One friend said that he practiced drills with police in his local town at an airsoft range, and these guys would have machine guns and thousands of dollar (high end weapons), and he would win with a simple hand gun every time. So there is a purpose for side arms. But typically in home defense this would not be required. You are not fighting a war with terrorists, you are simply trying to deter a thief from hurting himself or others.

 

[Darkhorse]

yes of course you can hit a target at 20 feet, but not accurately. That is what I am getting at, even at 20 feet you will not get a cluster in the middle. Which means it's not technically accurate.

With 6 shots hitting within a 1 foot-diameter-circle, it's accurate enough to confine the bullets to the bad guy and not hit any bystanders.

And this is with a 3" barrel. Most of my handguns have longer barrels.

 

[createdtoworship]

With 6 shots hitting within a 1 foot-diameter-circle, it's accurate enough to confine the bullets to the bad guy and not hit any bystanders.

And this is with a 3" barrel. Most of my handguns have longer barrels.

I don't think a 12" diameter circle is really that accurate at 20' feet. Like the other poster said, if you are nervous and shaking, accuracy goes down. But like he said if you have two hands spaced far apart, that is double the stability.

 

[Darkhorse]

I don't think a 12" diameter circle is really that accurate at 20' feet. Like the other poster said, if you are nervous and shaking, accuracy goes down. But like he said if you have two hands spaced far apart, that is double the stability.

No argument about muscle control and the better accuracy of rifles, but I still wouldn't want to have someone shooting at me from 20 feet...

 

[createdtoworship]

No argument about muscle control and the better accuracy of rifles, but I still wouldn't want to have someone shooting at me from 20 feet...

yeah, a gun is a deterent for sure. One option is to have the first few chambers as blanks. So you have warning shots, that may save a life. Especially if a kid were to get ahold of it in your home.

 

[Darkhorse]

yeah, a gun is a deterent for sure. One option is to have the first few chambers as blanks. So you have warning shots, that may save a life. Especially if a kid were to get ahold of it in your home.

Well...if it's serious enough to fire a gun, it's serious enough to use real bullets.
If the bad guy shoots back, they WON'T be blanks.

And if a kid can get ahold of it, you're not qualified to be a gun owner.