Holy Esphigmenou Monastery

[OIT]

There are many Old Calendarist Monasteries throughout Greece who would welcome the monks from Esphigmenou. The monastery is not their property but is under the jurisdiction of the EP. They have been told to leave but they refuse to do so. They want to have their cake and eat it too.

The thing is, they have a perfectly canonical right to not commemorate the EP.

 

[eoe]

The thing is, they have a perfectly canonical right to not commemorate the EP.

Who is the bishop in charge of Esphigmenou?

 

[Oblio]

Why not let them live their lives in peace?

Because the monastery does not 'belong' to them. Are they not welcome to leave if they do not follow the rules set out before them ?

 

[eoe]

The Holy Royal and Stauropegic Monastery of Esfigmenou is a monastery on the peninsula of Mount Athos, Greece, which has broken from the mainstream Christian Orthodox church since 1964[1]. It has existed as a monastery with this name since the 10th century. It is said that the name of the monastery traces back to its founder, an anonymous monk who used to firmly tighten his belt.

Stauropegic or stauropegial (from Greek: stauros - cross, pegio - to affirm) is an epithet applied to the monasteries subordinated directly to the Patriarch or Synod. It derives from the Byzantine tradition of summoning the Patriarch to place a cross at the foundation of such monasteries.

These fellows are directly subordinated to the Patriarch? How can you say that they have a canonical right to ignore him?

 

[Oblio]

I'll echo eoe. (again)

Who is their Bishop ?

 

[Oblio]

There is a word for those who go off on their own, form their own 'church' because they protest the actions of a lawful hierarch.

 

[OIT]

The monks are under Abp. Kiousis of the GOC of Greece, I believe. While supposedly the EP does "own" the Monastery, there have been cases in history where monks and priests have stopped commemorating their bishop because of heresy. I believe the 15th Canon of the First-Second Ecumenical Council says they can do what they are doing (ie, not commemorate the EP).

Why doesn't the EP leave them alone? They have every right to not commemorate him. The EP is not the pope, he is simply a bishop, who can preach heresy like any other bishop, in which case if the people under that bishop don't stop commemorating that bishop, they become heretics too.

 

[OIT]

They are only subordinate to him if he preaches Orthodoxy.

Either way, explain to me how all 20 monasteries once resisted. And btw, that article is wrong. Esphigmenou has never commemorated the EP since the Calendar change, even before 1964.

 

[eoe]

Why doesn't the EP leave them alone?

Definition:
Stauropegic or stauropegial (from Greek: stauros - cross, pegio - to affirm) is an epithet applied to the monasteries subordinated directly to the Patriarch or Synod. It derives from the Byzantine tradition of summoning the Patriarch to place a cross at the foundation of such monasteries.

They are in his monastery. If they want to thumb their noses at him let them. They just need to do it elsewhere. If you let someone live in your house and then they turn on you and you ask them to leave and they won't what do you do? These monks are living in the EP's monastery. If they do not want to be associated with him then they should go elsewhere and find a place where they can live in obedience to their bishop in peace and not trespass.

 

[OIT]

Definition:
Stauropegic or stauropegial (from Greek: stauros - cross, pegio - to affirm) is an epithet applied to the monasteries subordinated directly to the Patriarch or Synod. It derives from the Byzantine tradition of summoning the Patriarch to place a cross at the foundation of such monasteries.

They are in his monastery. If they want to thumb their noses at him let them. They just need to do it elsewhere. If you let someone live in your house and then they turn on you and you ask them to leave and they won't what do you do? These monks are living in the EP's monastery. If they do not want to be associated with him then they should go elsewhere and find a place where they can live in obedience to their bishop in peace and not trespass.

Key word, they are subordinated to him, but he doesn't own Esphigmenou. So its not really his property anyways. Either way, all 20 Monasteries used to do what Esphigmenou does now.

 

[Oblio]

The monks are under Abp. Kiousis of the GOC of Greece, I believe

And the GOC is what ? My guess is they are schismatic. If so:

Q.E.D.

 

[OIT]

And the GOC is what ? My guess is they are schismatic. If so:

Q.E.D.

Genuine Orthodox Church of Greece. Take a look at the pictures I sent in that link a few posts back, and see how "crazy" everyone was back then.

 

[Oblio]

Genuine Orthodox Church of Greece.

I'm sorry, pictures do not establish Orthodoxy or membership in one of the canonical EO Churches.

GOCoG is schismatic, therefore the monks are.

 

[OIT]

I'm sorry, pictures do not establish Orthodoxy or membership in one of the canonical EO Churches.

GOCoG is schismatic, therefore the monks are.

You still haven't answered my question as to how to explain how all 20 monasteries used to resist. And while pictures prove nothing, you are right, it shows that a good population of Greece didn't believe as you do back at the Calendar change.

 

[eoe]

forgive me.

 

[OIT]

So they are not Eastern Orthodox then. What right do they have to a monastery on Athos? Especially a stauropegic monastery of the EP?

I don't understand why they would want to be there.

Actually, they are Eastern Orthodox. I ask you to show me one heresy they teach (ROCOR used to be considered schismatic too by New Calendar churches, but never heretical, although I could be wrong on this; GOC doesn't preach heresy, but at most could be considered schismatic, but do you really believe ROCOR is schismatic? No, so why do you consider the GOC to be schismatic?).

Also, how do you explain that ROCOR ordained bishops for the Synod that Esphigmenou is a part of?

 

[eoe]

I ask you to show me one heresy they teach

I don't really know honestly. This is all politics and is something I wish to stay away from. If my post lacked charity I ask your forgiveness. I see that you are with the GOCoG?

 

[OIT]

I don't really know honestly. This is all politics and is something I wish to stay away from. If my post lacked charity I ask your forgiveness. I see that you are with the GOCoG?

It is ok. Forgive me if I have offended you or anyone here.

Yes, I am a Catechumen in one of the GOC Synods (not the one Esphigmenou belongs to though; however, I have great respect for Esphigmenou). Ultimately, I am tired of everyone saying we are crazy schismatics; come and see who we are before you judge us. Meet the priests, bishops, and monks, before you pass judgement. Do some research about the issues at stake, don't just blindly accept what somebody else has told you.

 

[OIT]

BTW, I dont consider all New Calendarists a bunch of heretics either. While I do believe Ecumenism is a heresy, and that I can have no part in it (and I don't want to start a debate on this, I'm just making a point), I do see many holy people in the New Calendar (and Old Calendar, ie Serbians, Romanians) Churches.

 

[eoe]

BTW, I dont consider all New Calendarists a bunch of heretics either. While I do believe Ecumenism is a heresy, and that I can have no part in it (and I don't want to start a debate on this, I'm just making a point), I do see many holy people in the New Calendar (and Old Calendar, ie Serbians, Romanians) Churches.

I am no ecumenist. Even when I was a protestant I was anti-ecumenical (I am a recent convert) My patron Saint is John the Wonderworker who I am sure you are aware was no ecumenist. I am also under His Eminence Metropolitain Alexios of Atlanta who was a monk of Vatopedi. He is an amazing man of extraordinary quality. I do not see him leaving the faith or compromising it in any way.

Maybe you would like to start a thread on ecumenism? I think it would do well to define it for what it really is.