Certainly it is an act of communion, but that doesn't in any way settle the Real Presence vs Representationalism dispute.
Yes, that is my thought, as well. There is a significant difference between mysticism and metaphysics.
Upvote
0
Certainly it is an act of communion, but that doesn't in any way settle the Real Presence vs Representationalism dispute.
The Eucharist is supposed to be mystical. Paul understands that the bread we receive is a communion of the body of Christ.
Certainly it is an act of communion, but that doesn't in any way settle the Real Presence vs Representationalism dispute.
Yes, that is my thought, as well. There is a significant difference between mysticism and metaphysics.
Jesus Himself told His disciples in person that wherever 2 or 3 are gathered in His Name to talk about Him,
HE IS THERE WITH THEM - "REAL PRESENCE" not fake, not artificial, not contrived, and no effort to exert to make Him be there with them, and no worries nor doubts that He is there with them.......
Jesus Himself told His disciples that they must eat His body and drink His blood (both anti-God's Word, to their thinking and in true knowledge of Scripture- TORAH),
and MANY OF HIS DISCIPLES LEFT HIM THEN - saying
this is too hard for us to accept. They did not wait for Jesus' Explanation and Understanding - they left,
and
Jesus let them go without trying to stop them
and without trying to get them back .
Jesus asked the other disciples who were still with Him,
"WILL YOU LEAVE ALSO ? "
They said no, no one else has the words that lead to eternal life.
So THEN TO THEM HE EXPLAINED - (so they would not ever think of violation of TORAH, ever)
MY WORDS that I SPEAK TO YOU (re including body and blood)
ARE SPIRIT, AND LIFE.
No need to warp or twist JESUS' WORDS to make TORAH breakers of anyone.
Jesus Himself told His disciples in person that wherever 2 or 3 are gathered in His Name to talk about Him,
HE IS THERE WITH THEM - "REAL PRESENCE", not flesh, not blood, not fake, not artificial, not contrived, and no effort to exert to make Him be there with them, and no worries nor doubts that He is there with them.......
I know/ knew that traditional meaning is different than the meaning I use going just by Jesus' Own Words, yes.Although the term Real Presence might, if seen for the first time, cold, be interpreted any number of ways...
as it is used in Christian theology, it specifically EXCLUDES what you are using it to mean here.
RP means really present IN THE ELEMENTS (bread and wine), not present in principle or in the room or with the believers in some mystical way, etc.
Sure, there is no reason you cannot take that POV.I know/ knew that traditional meaning is different than the meaning I use going just by Jesus' Own Words, yes.
I mean as Jesus does - when He says He is here, He is here,
including wherever 2 or 3 are gathered in His Name.
Actually, it is. If not, this would not be the most divisive issue separating the various Christian denominations with about a half- dozen different interpretations among them. But go ahead and tell us what you mean by truly, really, and factually.It actually, truly, really, factually is. This isn't rocket science Alban.
Sorry? question mark.... "at face value" (as you put it) may be the problem - as if Jesus could violate TORAH "at face value",Sure, there is no reason you cannot take that POV.
Most Christians believe in the Real Presence--or at least the churches that they belong to do--but it is not as though there are not Anabaptists and others who do not take his words as spoken at the Last Supper at face value in the way that the early church did.
"This is the new covenant in my blood" - that is, "this cup" - I suppose you don't see that the wider context of scripture shows the figurative nature of the statement? Paul in 1 Cor. 11 does not refer to the bread and cup as some mystical union, but rather as a proclamation of faith.This IS my body. This IS my blood. Any questions?