Holocaust a myth/inaccurate???

[Exonoesis]

On 31 October 1919, The American Hebrew talked about six million Jews being killed. How do you explain that?

 

[Oye11]

On 31 October 1919, The American Hebrew talked about six million Jews being killed. How do you explain that?

Link us to the source for your information or at least allude to the publication....

I recall years ago hearing a Holocaust denier on the radio. One of the arguments he kept drumming was "there were not 6 million Jews in Germany!" Well duh, but the Nazis also took possession of Jews within areas they conquered such as Poland, Austria, Russia, France, Scandinavia, etc. Useless point. As was another as they claimed, "if genocide was the goal why are there so many Jews alive today?" Duh, again. They didn`t succeed, never controlled every area or nation where Jews were located. Plus, Jews the Germans saw as useful to work in war factories were kept alive, but would not have lasted long if victory came in the war...

 

[Douger]

6 million German Jews is a likely number. Consider, at the start of the war there were 250,000 German Jewish soldiers and officers in the Wermacht. Many were purged but about half that many recieved special permission to remain in the army.
This shows there could have easily been 6 million German Jews in the whole country. Of course they didn't all get killed though, but if I recall correctly, Polish Jews made up a very large percentage of those killed in the holocaust.

 

[Exonoesis]

Link us to the source for your information or at least allude to the publication....

I recall years ago hearing a Holocaust denier on the radio. One of the arguments he kept drumming was "there were not 6 million Jews in Germany!" Well duh, but the Nazis also took possession of Jews within areas they conquered such as Poland, Austria, Russia, France, Scandinavia, etc. Useless point. As was another as they claimed, "if genocide was the goal why are there so many Jews alive today?" Duh, again. They didn`t succeed, never controlled every area or nation where Jews were located. Plus, Jews the Germans saw as useful to work in war factories were kept alive, but would not have lasted long if victory came in the war...

Okay, but that is not evidence that what history books tell us about The Holocaust is accurate.

 

[justanobserver]

Link us to the source for your information or at least allude to the publication....

I think I found what this individual is going off of and here is a link to the site. am not saying the poster that made the claim about the holocaust is a member or supports this web site I am aout to post but when I googled 6,000,000 jews Oct 31 1919, it was the first one to come up.

forgive me ahead of time for soiling CF with this hatefilled bigoted white supremist site (go thru the links and you will see what I am talking about). I read thru it and I feel like I need to wash with disinfectant. Hate just drips from this site. There are other sites that post some of the same but after going thru a lot of it, it seems like the most stem from or got their info word for word from this on site of the link I posted.

http://www.christianparty.net/index.html

another one is called "jewwatch".

Theres no doubt that some folks hatred for the Jews are so deep and so rabid that they will grasp at anything to to destroy and/or discredit them, and I doubt they really know why or the reason of such insurmountable hate. Its like they will grasp ay any straw, no matter how unrelated to find some remote possible connection that can be twisted and used as some kind of "proof" to validate their hatred.

The frantic actions of the anti semites remind me of a addict that is going thru wirhdrawels and how desprate they get to find another hit - same with those that try so desparately to get their "hate" fix and find anything to promote it.

just my view on this.

 

[PacificPandeist]

Within just the past few weeks I saw an article on CNN about a former Nazi death camp guard who had written in his journal of people being herded into the gas chamber to be killed by the hundred, then the bodies being dragged out to ditches and pits and being burned, some while still clinging to life!!

//// Pacific PanDeist

 

[Oye11]

http://www.christianparty.net/index.html

This site is a hoax, parody so to speak, are a lot of these around the net. This quote gives it away...

"NEW: Christian Party World Wide Web Site wins the coveted Moran Award!!​

"Next we have the Moran Award. This is the site that is so 'moranic' and extremist that you just have to view it for yourself. The winner of this one is:
http://christianparty.net/intro.htm"
​

Plus their stats about rape are an obvious spoof..​

 

[Troy7]

When US forces invaded Germany, we made their citizens look at the concentration camps. Our soldiers rounded up German citizens, and walked them through the camps. They did this so that the Germans couldn't deny what happened.
There is footage of this taking place, and it ain't pretty(actual footage of skinny, dying, Jews).

I seen that dvd. Netflix has it. Cant recall the title.

 

[Kalevalatar]

From a historian's point of view, Spielberg's Schindler's List is one of the worst (if not the worst) Holocaust movies out there because it was/is so hugely popular and yet it gets it all wrong. A young, susceptible person who may not know much about WWII watching this movie gets the wrong impression of what took place in Europe.

 

[rosenherman]

From a historian's point of view, Spielberg's Schindler's List is one of the worst (if not the worst) Holocaust movies out there because it was/is so hugely popular and yet it gets it all wrong. A young, susceptible person who may not know much about WWII watching this movie gets the wrong impression of what took place in Europe.

Unfortunately, a young person, susceptible or not is about a likely to be able to find Europe on a world map as they are to be able to write a coherent sentence. I never saw Schindler's List, and I won't watch it. I was 6 years old and toured the death camps at Dachau and Buchenwald. I saw the gas showers, the ovens and the fingernail gouges in the walls of the showers. I don't want to be reminded.

 

[Kalevalatar]

Unfortunately, a young person, susceptible or not is about a likely to be able to find Europe on a world map as they are to be able to write a coherent sentence. I never saw Schindler's List, and I won't watch it. I was 6 years old and toured the death camps at Dachau and Buchenwald. I saw the gas showers, the ovens and the fingernail gouges in the walls of the showers. I don't want to be reminded.

Rest assured that Schindler's List, should you ever watch it, will not remind you of those showers, because in Spielberg's List, showers are just that. Showers, which spray water, and everybody walks out alive. And that is not what happened.

 

[mahalia]

Rest assured that Schindler's List, should you ever watch it, will not remind you of those showers, because in Spielberg's List, showers are just that. Showers, which spray water, and everybody walks out alive. And that is not what happened.

spielberg was that inaccurate????!!!!?!?!?!
i don't understand, isn't he supposed to be one of the best directors ever???

wow. i've never watched Schindler's List. but now at least i know to take it with a pinch of salt.

 

[Pentecostal Boy]

to anyone who thinks that the holocaust was exagerated or totally false. I say read the book Night. Its a great book. But what happens in it is absolutely horrible, but true sadly.

 

[GrinningDwarf]

Rest assured that Schindler's List, should you ever watch it, will not remind you of those showers, because in Spielberg's List, showers are just that. Showers, which spray water, and everybody walks out alive. And that is not what happened.

Is that really what Spielberg was saying? That the gas showers never happened? Or that they weren't used at that particular camp at that particular time? IIRC, not all of the camps had those showers. I think Spielberg used that build up for an effect so that the viewers could never be sure exactly what was going to happen...which I'm sure is what it was like for the people in the camps.

 

[dignitized]

If you have ever met someone who has been in the camp - you don't have to see them in person. You can still see the camps in their eyes. I've met 4 survivors to date. Haunted people one and all. . . . .

 

[.Sabre.]

Read Maus by Art Spiegelman.Both books.I have read them and though they were sad, they were very informative, mainly as to psychological effects on camp survivors.

 

[Blackguard_]

spielberg was that inaccurate????!!!!?!?!?!
i don't understand, isn't he supposed to be one of the best directors ever???

Making a good movie doesn't mean it's necessarily accurate, such as Braveheart or Gladiator. ANd spielberg is over-rated.

wow. i've never watched Schindler's List. but now at least i know to take it with a pinch of salt.

Well, who said it was a documentary?

And that is not what happened.

Because ALL the showers in concentration camps were fake showers? AS someone said, I think it was just speilberg using that scene for dramic purposes. Denial of the expected.

The SImpsons does this kind of thng alll the time, such as when Bart and friends' lemon tree is taken to Shelbyville,and when they go to get it back Bart says "This whole
raid was as useless as that yellow lemon-shaped rock over there. Wait a
minute...there's a lemon behind that rock!"

 

[Writer before God]

i just had a very interesting debate on another site with a guy who believes the holocaust was exaggerated to a great extent. anyone here who would like to oppose or propose that pont of view?

I think that the holocaust was underdone.. it was repressed by Nazi views and not at all over done.. You never know what files the axis power's destroyed to tell the full story of the Holocaust.

 

[Hadassah]

I know too many people who have lived thru it and I am a Jewish Christian so what frightens me most is the new type of neo nazi breed that is on the uprise God help us all. I pray for these poor blind souls.

I have been to Germany, though I haven't made myself walk through any of what is left of the camps yet.

I find it hard to read about, hear about or watch any of it.

Like you, Denial of the events that took place from the onset of Nazis reaching power... I have a hard time handling at all... and it is frightening.

I have family that escaped before, during and after... some blood relation, and some that are related via marriage.

For someone to deny it happens, denies the fact that my people were meticulous (and still are!) in note and record keeping...

Every person was made to have a number (like social security sort of) - and if you were with questionable political groups, religious or racial groups, you were rounded up in droves by the numbers in each city, town, village, hovel and house.

It started in Austria, Hungary and Germany, then to all areas that had Volksdeutsch, and then all invaded territories.

People didn't believe it was happening when they were told, it was too strange, too foreign, too wrong... and no one spoke up, because all were in disbelief.

People thought their neighbors were good and honest people, and then if you were "Fingered" as the bad group - you were put out as rudely and cruelly as possible to face death however it may come.

PBS had a few good documentaries on the holocaust that interviewed people who lived through the round-ups and survived the camps.

History Channel/Discovery also have very informative documentaries... there have been other documentaries that go from eye witness accounts as well as military footage and documents which are now declassified.

The dvd/vhs "Paperclips" was also well done.

I have relatives that were able to hide because documents in their area weren't as meticulous, and they were catholic... they both had blonde hair and blue eyes and were able to "escape" - though not mentally. They left Yugoslavia, and some of their family stayed. I don't know how many died, I am afraid to ask.

I know there are still relatives in that area, but they are few.

My husband's grandmother only spoke Croatian, so she was 'inspected' and processed through one of the camps on the border before being allowed in. Her cousin (third?), who later became her husband was able to vouch for her. He spoke German and Croatian and had left before.

They both made it through somehow, and I think Opa served in the military, though I think in the 50s. I know in the 60s-70s he worked as a groundskeeper at a couple of schools in Rastatt in what was West Germany near the French Border.


My dad and mom's side of the family who were German Jews had assimilated into various churches (Methodist, Lutheran, Baptist etc) and most had moved over here to the USA before all of this went down, and all able bodied men served in WWII.

I don't know if any served in Germany or not - but I know to believe the vets and those who survived, as well as those who kept the notes themselves.

When Berlin was in decline, the orders went out to begin destroying paperwork, but to be honest, the paperwork that was found and processed the most (and not lost) were that of the "final solution".

The plan was to eradicate us, and leave only enough history to talk of a "past civilization" that "was" and "will be no more".

I have been to sites where we were taken from, and I have seen the torn and otherwise desecrated scriptures, prayer books, talliot... buildings.. and most of all people.

We all lost something in WWII.. on both sides - German and Jewish.

We weren't the only ones being removed though. Gypsies, and other racial groups, anyone "different" Than the ideal, Invalids (including mentally and physically handicapped), elderly & babies that were not "perfect" were not allowed to be.

People were indoctrinated hatefully against all things different, especially things that didn't support Nazism, National Socialism... or the religion of state which was something between being atheist, agnostic and pagan.

The "state" either supported or toppled clergy and churches.

The SDA were one of the first to go, and I have family (by marriage) that immigrated to Australia to get away from that...

While there were people within churches that did many things, it was very hard; because spies were everywhere. Phones and telegraphs and letters were inspected. Movement was watched and reported.

EVERYONE had a file.

What makes it worse, is it was like that in East Germany until the Stasi-government was toppled in 89.... and the mentality is still there in the "Oessies" - or so it seems to us from "the west" ("Wessies") and the States.

For me it is a scary thought still to think of going to Bavaria or the former East.. and I saw the Berlin Wall fall on TV, as well as other improvements via TV/Radio/internet/newspapers...

If you don't learn from your mistakes, you keep propagating them.


In Germany the anti-nazi rules are so harsh, and the way history is taught, it is hard on the children; especially those of us who are Jewish, as you are told how awful Germans are as a people for allowing it to happen.

The bad thing though, is that people didn't know it was happening, and those who did, were either in shock, turned a blind eye/ear, or helped keep it going by fanning the fire.

All are at fault, and even the USA had a hand here and there, which makes me even sicker

Since 6th grade I have had a drive to study WWII and WWI history (kind of in that order ironicly) - and I haven't stopped.

To hear people who deny the history and actuality, it is hard - very hard for me to stay silent... it boils my blood... I - by proxy through my ancestors, escaped only by the grace of G-d... whilst still other blood relations didn't.

That's a scary thought, and very sobering.

There are movies out there that help one come to terms with what happened, one of which Is "Rosenstrasse" - [r rating] which shows some of what happened in berlin when the German women married to German-Jewish men decided to stand up to the government (They let those men go)....

Downfall [R rating due to violence, propaganda and language], which shows Hitler's last days and what happened a little after those last days - very accurate...

[Both are recent German films btw and subtitled only]

Paperclips (a documentary about a school who had no idea about the holocaust and came to grips with it by collecting 6 million paperclips, a train car from the era and making their own museum at the school)...

Swing Kids (this one is rated R due to language, sexuality etc) - the POV of "swing dancing" kids.. and nazism

In the Presence of mine enemies (warsaw ghetto uprising, a rabbi and his daughter and the cruelties) - also rated R ...

I love you, I love you not - with Claire Danes - about a girl who is Jewish and is shown the mean face of Anti-semitism at her school, and coming to terms with what her Nana lived through (who was in Auschwitz)...

They are not all documentaries but were interesting and helps one put themselves in other's shoes.

I have read "IBM and the Holocaust" which was informative, as well as several survivors accounts, including accounts of those who were in hiding.

Just some thoughts..

 

[Hadassah]

If you have ever met someone who has been in the camp - you don't have to see them in person. You can still see the camps in their eyes. I've met 4 survivors to date. Haunted people one and all. . . . .

yep. I lived in Norfolk and two of the folks who looked after me some when I was very little had lived through the camps. I was very small, but I remember asking "what are these numbers?" "What do they mean?"

I doubt they think they had such an impact on that small life way back when, but they did.