Holocaust a myth/inaccurate???

[rosenherman]

The problem isn't that the holocaust is a myth, it's largely a matter of not allowing any dissenting opinion on a number of related issues within valid historical debate. The holocaust, like any historical atrocity, has aspects that are factual, questionable, and myth. That prisoners in the KZ system were murdered is fact beyond any reasonable doubt. That the Germans made soap out of Jews or human skin lamp shades is completely myth.

You're wrong, the human skin lampshades and book covers are in the Archives in Washington DC. Take a visit and learn something.

 

[Writer before God]

I just think history is messed up regardless of how we look at it..

So I know that million's of Jewish people were killed and I hate the fact that they were. But why are we looking at the past for this topic. why not look to the future..

There are still people who believe that they weren't killed and that the Jewish people weren't persecuted at all.

All I am saying is why are we wasting time on debating when we could be saying?

Signed,
Just me.

 

[OnTheWay]

You're wrong, the human skin lampshades and book covers are in the Archives in Washington DC. Take a visit and learn something.

Actually they've been removed and have been gone for quite some time. Before making snotty remarks you might actually want to check your facts. Furthermore, DNA testing conducted on bars of soap supposedly made from Jews has never yielded a single postive result for human DNA. The Swiss bank account stories were also proven untrue several years ago when released documents revieled that the vast majority of the accounts were opened by wealthy gentiles who simply forgot about them.

 

[OnTheWay]

Im not saying the nazis didnt kill lots of people. Im just saying concentration camps were not designed to kill thousands of people.

I would agree with that statement. It simply makes no sense that the Germans would exterminate KZ prisoners when they were a vital source of labor. Historically you're probably looking at more of a culling of those that were unable to work and would be viewed as a waste of supplies. Evil for certain, but theories about secert conferences and the "final solution" are probably based more in myth than in fact. The lack of any recovered documentation is not evidence against it in and of itself, but it would seem odd not to find anything for an operation on the scale required.
Auschwitz is problematic for the reason it was held by the Soviets for 50 years, and the communists were never shy about lying. They also tried to pin the Katyln Forrest massacre of Polish officers on the Germans. We've only got their word that they didn't embellish any aspect of the camp.
I suppose it's much like the Mongolian raids against the Muslim world, the Muslims say more than 10 million died and more objective sources seem to put the number at about 3-4 million. I guess Stalin was right to an extent, "kill one person and it's a tragedy, kill one million and it's a statistic."
During the first world war phoney stories about Germans using French children for bayonet practice were common place. Governments are always interested in making themselves look righteous and their enemies wicked. Before the Pearle Harbor attack Americans were strongly opposed to entering the second world war. I would imagine that for those that lost loved ones in the war having fought to end the holocaust would be a comfort. Given the evils of the Nazi regime I don't see any reason to nit pick about what did or did not happen. Later generations further removed from that era can address the subject of historical accuracy from a more objective point of view. For now, if you're interested then do your own research and come to your own conclusions as to exactly what did or did not happen. That's my thinking anyway.

 

[rosenherman]

That the Germans made soap out of Jews or human skin lamp shades is completely myth.

You're wrong, the human skin lampshades and book covers are in the Archives in Washington DC. Take a visit and learn something.

Actually they've been removed and have been gone for quite some time. Before making snotty remarks you might actually want to check your facts.

Well, since you are contradicting yourself on some particularly gruesome things, it's obvious you're going to be wrong on other information as well.

 

[Koba The Dread]

Well, since you are contradicting yourself on some particularly gruesome things, it's obvious you're going to be wrong on other information as well.

Not much of a contradiction to be honest, what OnTheWay said first is still true. The JewSoap and skin lamp shades aren't true are they?

 

[MercuryAndy]

I dont think the soap and lampshades was correct realy. I do belive they did harvest teeth and maby even organs in some cases but in my opinion the body was burned almost whole.

 

[rosenherman]

Not much of a contradiction to be honest, what OnTheWay said first is still true. The JewSoap and skin lamp shades aren't true are they?

OnTheWay said they didn't exist and then said they'd been removed. It has to be one or the other and unfortunately the human skin lampshades and book covers are a reality. They prized the skin of people with tatoos particularly. There are some housed in the National Archives in Washington, DC. They are no longer displayed, but they do exist.

 

[OnTheWay]

Well, since you are contradicting yourself on some particularly gruesome things, it's obvious you're going to be wrong on other information as well.

In other words you don't know what you're talking about so you're going to say I'm "contradiciting" myself when I most certainly have not. You have to love internet know it all's, when they're wrong they can come up with all sorts of silly reasons to focus on something else. When you don't even know they took the "human skin lampshades" out of the holocaust museum years ago it's obvious you haven't a clue as to what you're talking about. I'd suggest reading something that doesn't come from the people that earn obscene amounts of money off of the holocaust.

 

[OnTheWay]

OnTheWay said they didn't exist and then said they'd been removed. It has to be one or the other and unfortunately the human skin lampshades and book covers are a reality. They prized the skin of people with tatoos particularly. There are some housed in the National Archives in Washington, DC. They are no longer displayed, but they do exist.

They are no longer displayed because they were proven to be fake and removed. Just like all of the bars of soap that Israel conducted Jewish funerals for and were later proven to be made from horse fat.

 

[rosenherman]

In other words you don't know what you're talking about so you're going to say I'm "contradiciting" myself when I most certainly have not. You have to love internet know it all's, when they're wrong they can come up with all sorts of silly reasons to focus on something else. When you don't even know they took the "human skin lampshades" out of the holocaust museum years ago it's obvious you haven't a clue as to what you're talking about. I'd suggest reading something that doesn't come from the people that earn obscene amounts of money off of the holocaust.

I'm just responding to your contradictory emails. You can't get your facts straight, don't yell at me.

 

[BelindaP]

Here's my two cents.

It does not matter what the intention of the Natzis were when they built the camps. What matters is what they did with them after they were built.

My father (at the tender age of 18) liberated some of those camps at the end of the war. They weren't even the worse camps, but he won't talk about it much at all. Here is what I and others have gleaned from him.

He saw the trainloads (not traincar loads) of bodies being removed from those camps. He saw the emaciated victims who were still alive in those camps when they were liberated. He never saw any combat, but he left the military with a drinking problem that lasted for 40 years.

I once mentioned to him that there were people who would deny the holocaust. Now, you have to understand my father to get the full significance of his reaction to that. He is not very emotional, and he doesn't swear in front of women or children. I was both at that point in my life. Anyway, he used the harshest language I had heard up until then to express what he thought of people like that.

Now considering that the Natzis disposed of the bodies regularly, these trainloads of bodies would have been recently deceased people. One can stack between 100-200 people in each train car, so the fact that multiple trains were required for each camp should say something for the number of people found dead or dying in those camps.

By the way, they liberated POW camps, too. Those people were a bit skinny, but they were in nowhere near the bad condition of those in the extermination camps. The Natzis knew whom they wanted to kill and whom they didn't.

I would challenge any of these holocaust-deniers to look my father square in the face and tell him that what he saw was a lie or a figment of his imagination. He's in his 80s now and dying from colon cancer, but I imagine he might be able to take you.

 

[Kalevalatar]

Is that really what Spielberg was saying? That the gas showers never happened? Or that they weren't used at that particular camp at that particular time? IIRC, not all of the camps had those showers. I think Spielberg used that build up for an effect so that the viewers could never be sure exactly what was going to happen...which I'm sure is what it was like for the people in the camps.

I agree that Spielberg used the water showers for an effect, for a very dramatic effect, I might add. But I think you agree with me that the drama works if and only when one knows about the gas showers in the first place. My dear godson, a typical teenager, after seeing the movie, gave his dear mother (herself a refugee from a war-torn country) something close to a heart attack by his comment, "I don't get it. What's the big deal with the the Holocaust, anyway..." And, mind you, we are an informed & educated family.

After all, in the movie, the good gentile risks himself to save the Jews. In reality, too many Christians stood by and did nothing.

I hope you don't mind my pointing out that you and I, we are both a bit of an older generation. And sadly, our youngsters (not all but many) are not nearly as acutely aware of what Holocaust stands for. For them, somewhat understandably, WWII is already ancient history. For me, it's part of my mom's and grandma's personal history.

 

[Kalevalatar]

Evil for certain, but theories about secert conferences and the "final solution" are probably based more in myth than in fact. The lack of any recovered documentation is not evidence against it in and of itself, but it would seem odd not to find anything for an operation on the scale required.

This part of your post leaves me wondering if you are referring to the Wannsee Conference, the conference on the final solution [Endlösung] of the Jewish question held on January 20, 1942, in Berlin, Am Großen Wannsee No. 56-58, where the final solution (no quotation marks) was envisioned in their own words (facsimile pages of the original documents in German, again with no quotion marks around the words Endlösung der Judenfrage)

In the course of the final solution and under approriate direction, the Jews are to be utilized for work in the East in a suitable manner. In large labor columns and separated by sexes, Jews capable of working will be dispatched to these regions to build roads, and in the process a large number of them will undoubtedly drop out by way of natural attrition.

Those who ultimately should possibly get by will have to be given suitable treatment because they unquestionably represent the most resistant segments and therefore constitute a natural elite that, if allowed to go free, would turn into a germ cell of renewed Jewish revival.

I don't see a "myth" working here. The goals are clear: let the Jews work themselves to death. Those strong enough to survive represent the most dangerous segment and should be given "suitable treatment." Sure, it does not outright say, "should be killed," but in all honesty, does anyone here interpret those words to mean anything else? The final solution was not about giving medals to Jews strong enough to somehow survive the camps, deportations, and other passive means of extermination. The final solution also speaks about sterilization (page 11) which is one form of genocide.

 

[MercuryAndy]

The thing is Nazis were very carefull. I belive you could even make the argument hitler didnt want to kill the jews. they are usualy refered to with the words "evacuate" or "resettlement".

 

[BelindaP]

What do you have to say about what I said in post #40?

 

[s_gunter]

Thread closed due to too may rules violations.
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