Holiness

[Frogster]

so, tell me.

what does the psalmist mean when he says "for all your commandments are righteousness".

Sure...they are, but they were added to show no one is righteous. Just like Rom 3:20.

Psalm 143:2 Enter not into judgment with your servant,
for no one living is righteous before you.

Ok, now why does 1 Cor 15:56, say the power of sin is law?

 

[Frogster]

the law = the flesh?

see? i don't get it either.

i thought paul said that we know that the law is spiritual (rom 7:14).

where else was sin aroused, by the spritual law? In the new man, or the old?


7;5For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death.

 

[Frogster]

THe law = the flesh? Then one would have to admit that God didn't know what He was doing or what He was getting himself or His people into!

He knew all along..God knows the future.


heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second.

 

[Frogster]

We are flesh.. and will always be... even after the resurrection... and yeah.. flesh and the law need each other to operate properly. That is why He gave the flesh the law.. then He gave us the spirit to discern just how spiritual that law is.

Paul died to law, crucified with Christ, now living in the new creation. If you ask ther Lord, to illuminate Rom 5-6, you will find great Joy.

We don't need the temple law anymore, we have been made Holy eternally, and it was NOT about the flesh...


9;13For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctify for the purification of the flesh, 14how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

With God, all things are possible. Christ is God. Do you believe this?

He is also the Light of the world

Luke 2:32 A Light into a un-covering/veiling/apo-kaluyin <602> of Nations and glory of people of Thee Israel

John 1:3 All things thru Him became and apart-from Him became not-yet one-thing which has become.
4 In Him life was, and the life was the Light of the men.

Revelation 1:1 An un-covering/veiling/apo-kaluyiV <602> of Jesus Christ, which gives to him, the God, to show to His bond-servants, which-things is binding to be becoming in swiftness.

Steve Miller Band - I want to turn the world around - YouTube

 

[Frogster]

I know but that is a gift from God.. it is a spiritual discernment.

Actually when the dull in hebrews, were returning to law, not understanding grace, they no doubt though they were using discernment.


11About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. 12For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, 13for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. 14But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by GJI i dont think being politcally correct should interfere with holiness

Certianly and I fully agree. That however isn't the world we currently live in. Read my signature.

Sometimes politics and religion don't mix too well in this imperfect world, as these OC Jews were to later find out when God sent the Roman army in to "spank" them in ad70 for putting Caesar over the Son of God

John 19:15 Those yet cry-out "take-away! take-away! crucify! Him".
Pilate Is saying to them "the King of ye I shall be crucifying?".
Answered the Chief-priests "not we are having a King except Caesar"

Acts 25:11 For if I be an offender, or have committed any thing worthy of death, I refuse not to die.
But if there be none of these things whereof these accuse me, no man may deliver me unto them.
I appeal unto Caesar.!

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

..............The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover.............
&#12288;
.......The Temple now presented little more than a heap of ruins............

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

He knew all along..God knows the future.


heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second.

Indeed!

Luke 5:37 "And no one is casting young wine into OLD vessels, if yet no surely shall be ruined the wine, the young of the vessels and it shall be being poured out and its vessels shall be perishing .
38 but young wine into NEW/kainouV <2537> vessels is to be cast and both are preserved together.
39 and no one drinking old immediately is willing young, for he is saying, 'for the the Old kind/mellow/crhstoteroV <5543> is'".
[Matt 9:17/Mark 2:22/Hebrews 8:13]
&#12288;
Hebrews 8:13 in the to be saying 'NEW/kainhn <2537>', He hath made OLD the first.
The yet being aged and being obsolete nigh of disappearance
[Luke 5:37-39/Reve 19:3]

Which then begs the question:
[link courtesy of "lamblinks"...if you post on the thread at the link below, please stay on topic ]

http://www.christianforums.com/t7525782/
Did Christ come to establish a New or Renewed Covenant with Israel?

 

[11822]

And how is this holiness manifested? Is it really a non physical thing? What murders only our spirit or our bodies - the flesh? Does murder put a real flesh and blood being 6 ft under at the funeral? Yes I understand the application to and of the spirit. But you're demanding performance of the flesh. No I'm not promoting sin. The performance of the flesh come from the inside or the heart. You're trying to change the heart by brute force form the outside in with the law. The indwelling of the Spirit changes the flesh from the inside out. Clean the inside and the outside becomes clean and there is no need to white wash the outside. The law makes nothing clean. The law doesn't change the nature, but the Spirit does. This causes the fight to be pretty much over. Oh it still rages on as Paul said in Romans 7. It isn't nearly as fierce especially if one understands what is happening.

No scratch im following Gods call to holiness. Fornication is not holiness therefore i abstain from it because its Gods will. Are you going to say i'm wrong and should keep fornicating? Will you tell me to not listen to God? How am i trying to do anything by brute force? I pray and God helps me, but i can't sit back and do nothing, i must do my share as God requires, if we're not supposed to listen and obey then the apostles wouldn't tell us what to do, we could just let God change us without any effort on our own part and without needing the apostles to tell us to abstain from fornication, lying, stealing, and alll works of the flesh and there would be no need for a bible, Jesus could have summed his ministry up in just a few words and we wouldn't need a book full of teaching that is known as the NT. Your accusations are false, false, false. You are so hard headed.

 

[from scratch]

Sometimes politics and religion don't mix too well in this imperfect world, as these OC Jews were to later find out when God sent the Roman army in to "spank" them in ad70 for putting Caesar over the Son of God

Whose mixing politics and religion? The term PC speech is an attitude and not a political statement.

John 19:15 Those yet cry-out "take-away! take-away! crucify! Him".
Pilate Is saying to them "the King of ye I shall be crucifying?".
Answered the Chief-priests "not we are having a King except Caesar"

Isn't it amazing that they were looking for someone to deliver them from outside oppression. In this case Roman rule.

Acts 25:11 For if I be an offender, or have committed any thing worthy of death, I refuse not to die.
But if there be none of these things whereof these accuse me, no man may deliver me unto them.
I appeal unto Caesar.!

What do you know there are some blessings with civil government.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

..............The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover.............
&#12288;
.......The Temple now presented little more than a heap of ruins............

 

[11822]

Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
Eph 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
Eph 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth
Eph 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
Eph 5:12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
Eph 5:13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
Eph 5:14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
Eph 5:15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
Eph 5:16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.
Eph 5:17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.
Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;


When i read this scripture i see the apostles telling me to do things and not do things, they tell me to know what the will of the Lord is. Why would they tell me if i am not supposed to obey? Am i seeking bondage or freedom when i obey? Am i trying to clean the outside of the cup or be obedient? Should i just throw this teaching out and do nothing with it? Or should i try to obey it and pray for Gods help? Shouldn't I Pray that God change my heart and make me a willing servant? That's what i'm doing, and i reject any notion that this is making me an enemy to the cross, or that i'm trying to save myself because my hope is in Jesus Christ alone. But his apostles teach me things, so i must obey.

 

[fhansen]

[FONT=&quot]

One of the major points to hebrews is access

...access to the throne of God, at any time, something that was not for them in the old days, then, only once a year, and only by the high priest...


The forerunner takes us with him...it doesn't get much better..



6:19We have this as a sure and steadfast anchor of the soul, a hope that enters into the inner place behind the curtain, 20where Jesus has gone as a forerunner on our behalf, having become a high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek


10:19 Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus, 20by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh,

[/FONT]The Early Church looked upon the Eucharist as a re-presentation, which they were instructed to do, of the one sacrifice. Here are some excerpts from scripture, followed by some from a couple ECFs, followed by one from the Didache, an early catechism:

"The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread."

-1 Cor. 10:16-17​

"For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, 'This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.' In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, 'This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.' For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes. Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord."

-1 Cor. 11:23-27​

"Since then these things are manifest to us, and we have looked into the depths of the divine knowledge, we ought to do in order all things which the Master commanded us to perform at appointed times. He commanded us to celebrate sacrifices and services, and that it should not be thoughtlessly or disorderly, but at fixed times and hours. He has Himself fixed by His supreme will the places and persons whom He desires for these celebrations, in order that all things may be done piously according to His good pleasure, and be acceptable to His will. So then those who offer their oblations at the appointed seasons are acceptable and blessed, but they follow the laws of the Master and do not sin. For to the high priest his proper ministrations are allotted, and to the priests the proper place has been appointed, and on Levites their proper services have been imposed. The layman is bound by the ordinances for the laity."

St. Clement of Rome, 80 A.D., to the Corinthians​

[Christ] has declared the cup, a part of creation, to be his own Blood, from which he causes our blood to flow; and the bread, a part of creation, he has established as his own Body, from which he gives increase to our bodies."

St. Irenaeus of Lyons, Against Heresies, 180 A.D.​

"So then, if the mixed cup and the manufactured bread receive the Word of God and become the Eucharist, that is to say, the Blood and Body of Christ, which fortify and build up the substance of our flesh, how can these people claim that the flesh is incapable of receiving God's gift of eternal life, when it is nourished by Christ's Blood and Body and is His member? As the blessed apostle says in his letter to the Ephesians, 'For we are members of His Body, of His flesh and of His bones' (Eph. 5:30). He is not talking about some kind of 'spiritual' and 'invisible' man, 'for a spirit does not have flesh an bones' (Lk. 24:39). No, he is talking of the organism possessed by a real human being, composed of flesh and nerves and bones. It is this which is nourished by the cup which is His Blood, and is fortified by the bread which is His Body. The stem of the vine takes root in the earth and eventually bears fruit, and 'the grain of wheat falls into the earth' (Jn. 12:24), dissolves, rises again, multiplied by the all-containing Spirit of God, and finally after skilled processing, is put to human use. These two then receive the Word of God and become the Eucharist, which is the Body and Blood of Christ."

St. Irenaeus of Lyons, Unmasking and Refutation of the Falsely named Gnosis 180AD​

"On the Lord's own day, assemble in common to break bread and offer thanks; but first confess your sins, so that your sacrifice may be pure. However, no one quarreling with his brother may join your meeting until they are reconciled; your sacrifice must not be defiled. For here we have the saying of the Lord: 'In every place and time offer me a pure sacrifice; for I am a mighty King, says the Lord; and my name spreads terror among the nations.'"

The Didache Ch14 2nd Century​

 

[11822]

Php_4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Yes, I can do all thing's through Christ who strengthens me, so please don't tell me i cant, or that its wrong to do those things im taught to obey by Jesus and the apostles.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Whose mixing politics and religion? The term PC speech is an attitude and not a political statement.Isn't it amazing that they were looking for someone to deliver them from outside oppression. In this case Roman rule.

What do you know there are some blessings with civil government.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

..............The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover.............
&#12288;
.......The Temple now presented little more than a heap of ruins............

I just hope Texas doesn't get on Obama's bad side like it did with Santa Anna back in the 1800's

Santa Anna: "Our cannonballs will blot out the sun!"
Travis: "Then we will fight in the shade"

The Battle of The Alamo - Final Assault (Original Soundtrack by Dimitri Tiomkin) - YouTube

 

[11822]

When i look at the Lords rebuke of the Churches in Revelation and also read Ephesians 5, I cant help but think that God is saying to us "hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches, be wise and know what the will of God is".

 

[from scratch]

Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
Eph 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
Eph 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth
Eph 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
Eph 5:12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
Eph 5:13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
Eph 5:14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
Eph 5:15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
Eph 5:16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.
Eph 5:17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.
Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;


When i read this scripture i see the apostles telling me to do things and not do things, they tell me to know what the will of the Lord is. Why would they tell me if i am not supposed to obey? Am i seeking bondage or freedom when i obey? Am i trying to clean the outside of the cup or be obedient? Should i just throw this teaching out and do nothing with it? Or should i try to obey it and pray for Gods help? Shouldn't I Pray that God change my heart and make me a willing servant? That's what i'm doing, and i reject any notion that this is making me an enemy to the cross, or that i'm trying to save myself because my hope is in Jesus Christ alone. But his apostles teach me things, so i must obey.

OK so you still need to be told what to do. I have no problem with you following a rote list if that is what you need. I'm led from the inside and am a follower of God as a dear child.

I believe that I have walked in love with you. Do I need also to die for your sin what ever that may be or entail. Or is it that I just need to shut up and say more power to you. What do you need?

Fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, is not once named by me, filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting. That is none of the above are part of my life. Now you might say that I talk foolishly and jest. What is meant by the listing of these 2 items? Surely Paul isn't saying not to exchange pleasantries or tell a good joke and have some fun or to not be lite. The other side of the word jesting covers the use of scutilous language which is vulgar or abusive or the telling of filthy jokes - licentious humor. This isn't my life style.

I do give thanks everyday.

I'm not a male prostitute. I have clean thought life. I don't want your stuff. I don't worship other gods.

I'm doing my bestest to keep someone from deceiving me with a false gospel and other things. I don't commonly associate with any of the above. That none of my friends that I know of do this stuff.

I was kept in darkness for a long time by professional religious leaders.

I certianly do seek to prove what is acceptableto the Lord.

I don't fellowship with the wicked. But I don't go out of my way to reprove or correct them. They have to get into my face and then usually I just walk away knowing there is nothing I can do concerning them except pray.

I think that I walk accurately, diligently skilled forming the best plans and using the best means for their execution before the Lord.

Concerning the Lord I believe that I'm redeeming the time - hence my being here.

I believe I'm being wise. I fully understand you don't agree.

I don't imbibe and do believe that I'm filled with the Spirit. Of course many think I'm deceived. But that is OK.

All of this is pretty much automatic for me an I don't have to think about doing any or most of it at all. This comes with being led by the Spirit.

 

[from scratch]

Php_4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Yes, I can do all thing's through Christ who strengthens me, so please don't tell me i cant, or that its wrong to do those things im taught to obey by Jesus and the apostles.

Aye sir.

 

[from scratch]

I just hope Texas doesn't get on Obama's bad side like it did with Santa Anna back in the 1800's

Santa Anna: "Our cannonballs will blot out the sun!"
Travis: "Then we will fight in the shade"

The Battle of The Alamo - Final Assault (Original Soundtrack by Dimitri Tiomkin) - YouTube

I'm with ya on that count. He has only slightly less than 2 yrs to mess things up. Whatever that has to do with the thread.

 

[Frogster]

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]The Early Church looked upon the Eucharist as a re-presentation, which they were instructed to do, of the one sacrifice. Here are some excerpts from scripture, followed by some from a couple ECFs, followed by one from the Didache, an early catechism:

"The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread."

-1 Cor. 10:16-17​

"For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, 'This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.' In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, 'This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.' For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes. Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord."

-1 Cor. 11:23-27​

"Since then these things are manifest to us, and we have looked into the depths of the divine knowledge, we ought to do in order all things which the Master commanded us to perform at appointed times. He commanded us to celebrate sacrifices and services, and that it should not be thoughtlessly or disorderly, but at fixed times and hours. He has Himself fixed by His supreme will the places and persons whom He desires for these celebrations, in order that all things may be done piously according to His good pleasure, and be acceptable to His will. So then those who offer their oblations at the appointed seasons are acceptable and blessed, but they follow the laws of the Master and do not sin. For to the high priest his proper ministrations are allotted, and to the priests the proper place has been appointed, and on Levites their proper services have been imposed. The layman is bound by the ordinances for the laity."

St. Clement of Rome, 80 A.D., to the Corinthians​

[Christ] has declared the cup, a part of creation, to be his own Blood, from which he causes our blood to flow; and the bread, a part of creation, he has established as his own Body, from which he gives increase to our bodies."

St. Irenaeus of Lyons, Against Heresies, 180 A.D.​

"So then, if the mixed cup and the manufactured bread receive the Word of God and become the Eucharist, that is to say, the Blood and Body of Christ, which fortify and build up the substance of our flesh, how can these people claim that the flesh is incapable of receiving God's gift of eternal life, when it is nourished by Christ's Blood and Body and is His member? As the blessed apostle says in his letter to the Ephesians, 'For we are members of His Body, of His flesh and of His bones' (Eph. 5:30). He is not talking about some kind of 'spiritual' and 'invisible' man, 'for a spirit does not have flesh an bones' (Lk. 24:39). No, he is talking of the organism possessed by a real human being, composed of flesh and nerves and bones. It is this which is nourished by the cup which is His Blood, and is fortified by the bread which is His Body. The stem of the vine takes root in the earth and eventually bears fruit, and 'the grain of wheat falls into the earth' (Jn. 12:24), dissolves, rises again, multiplied by the all-containing Spirit of God, and finally after skilled processing, is put to human use. These two then receive the Word of God and become the Eucharist, which is the Body and Blood of Christ."

St. Irenaeus of Lyons, Unmasking and Refutation of the Falsely named Gnosis 180AD​

"On the Lord's own day, assemble in common to break bread and offer thanks; but first confess your sins, so that your sacrifice may be pure. However, no one quarreling with his brother may join your meeting until they are reconciled; your sacrifice must not be defiled. For here we have the saying of the Lord: 'In every place and time offer me a pure sacrifice; for I am a mighty King, says the Lord; and my name spreads terror among the nations.'"

The Didache Ch14 2nd Century​

just what r u saying? i got dizzy reading all these quotes.

 

[from scratch]

How could he invite Thomas to put his fingers in his wounds unless there was something to touch?

I didn't say that Jesus wasn't solid mass after the resurrection. I ask how did He appear in a secured room to the amazment of the disciples. Flesh and blood don't walk through closed doors last time I checked. Maybe you shoule try it. Tell me how it works. The point is our bodies will be different and have different capabilities. Angels are spirits and yet described as solid mass and even ate with Abraham.