Holiness

[Nanopants]

Ok good. Why are you attempting to talk me out of obeying the words of Jesus and his apostles then? Isn't that what you're doing? I'm talking about the NT teaching, not sacrificing animals and getting circumcised. Should i obey Galatians and not the rest of the NT also?

No, you should obey Christ, take up your cross, and follow him. The rest will fall into place.

 

[11822]

No, you should obey Christ, take up your cross, and follow him. The rest will fall into place.

And how do know i don't do that?

 

[Nanopants]

And how do know i don't do that?

If you were, in spirit and in truth, then you would have know why.

 

[11822]

If you were, in spirit and in truth, then you would have know why.

.

 

[11822]

Any Joy that i feel is crushed under the weight of theology.

 

[11822]

See you all later. I need some peace. Gt is not helpful.

 

[11822]

I may not be as mature as i like but i do know one thing for sure. GT is a huge stumbling Block. While we all argue we cause each other other to stumble. Don't say it isn't so because it is. I'm bowing out of GT. I'm tired of stumbling over it, i'm tired of causing others to stumble and tired of trying to make us all see this. The Kingdom Of heaven is about Peace and righteousness and Joy in the Holy Spirit. Is that what anyone sees here? That's not what i see. Romans 14 is talking about causing each other to stumble over meat and drink and holy days and anything else that causes us to stumble needlessly, my faith is in Christ not the law, i follow the written words of the apostles, not the law... because they are a guide for me and because they are a lamp for my feet, so i wont stumble in the dark, i trust Jesus Christ and His words and the words of the His apostles. I'm done now. Peace be unto you all and goodbye.

Romans 14 again.


Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Rom 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
Rom 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
Rom 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:



17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.


23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

 

[fhansen]

What is holiness?

Obedience to the law, or identification and assimilation with the heart of Christ, or something else?

Holiness is love-I'm not sure why we shouldn't know that-love is what conforms us to the image of God. And that's why the greatest commandments are what they are. I think we can easily overlook or trivialize the importance of this virtue, which is considered to be a supernatural gift, BTW-and start imagining that holiness is some kind of spiritual quality that has to do with pious looks on people's faces and halos or whatever, but it really is as simple as loving as God does and as He wants; because love's the highest good.

 

[fhansen]

Not quite. You intend to mean the flesh which is incapable of obedience to the law and has received its unrevokable sentence to death. I don't think you have condiered the soul in your equasion.

sounds a lot like dualism. Anyway, I'll reread Rom 6 and try to understand what you guys are getting at.

 

[ForceofTime]

yet elsewhere it is called a commandment according to men's principles .

Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules: “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings. (Colossians 2:20-22)

If by 'it' you mean the holy law about which my post referred, then the rest reads rather strange and seems out of place.

Thankfully, we do not have to go too far from Romans 7 to find what would be more suitable:

Romans 7:23-25 KJV
(23) But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
(24) O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
(25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Which of these two, the law of God or the law of sin, is Paul mentioning in the Colossians verses you provided?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

If by 'it' you mean the holy law about which my post referred, then the rest reads rather strange and seems out of place.

Thankfully, we do not have to go too far from Romans 7 to find what would be more suitable:

Romans 7:23-25 KJV
(23) But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
(24) O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
(25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Which of these two, the law of God or the law of sin, is Paul mentioning in the Colossians verses you provided?

Read the passage in a wider context, it is the "holy law" that aggravates the flesh to sin . knowing this i choose a more spiritually efficient solution .

the Holy Spirit who guides us all into all truth .

 

[from scratch]

I think it's very clear that you believe that following the written letter is tantamount to picking up your cross. Am I correct?

If this is correct, what is your motivation?

He told me it was to argue.

I personally think it (his motivation) is to silence the truth.

Have you noticed the why pick on me 'tude? It is used to get silence or agreement when nothing else works. Essentially the argument is empty and has no proof.

 

[from scratch]

You don't seem to understand either.

Bet he unsderstands the law better than you. Maybe you should put him to the test. That would be fun to read.

 

[from scratch]

No thanks.

Cause you don't know and can't. You're very welcome.

 

[from scratch]

I'm not sure, i know what my conscience tells me is right and wrong and i follow that as much as i can. If we can't follow after holiness as some people seem to say, then why does the bible tell us to be holy in all manner of conversation, and to abstain from fornication if these things don't describe Holiness? Holiness may even mean having Faith in Christ, i'm not sure, but i now this thread is just confusing.

That is because we're on different levels. You pursue the natural and we peusue the spiritual. Spiritual thing are only understood spiritually. You're clearly not following the Spirit as noted by your confession above.

 

[from scratch]

Some say not to follow anything but Christ to be holy, but doesn't that include following the teaching of His apostles which tell us to be holy in all manner of conversation and to abstain from fornication? If i obey that teaching am i not following Christ? They say don't focus on the teaching focus on Christ, However if i focus on that teaching am i not focusing on Christ who teaches it?

Should this be in your posts -

I know I have the advantage. It is called knowledge of the Sctipture - cause I read the whole thing at least 6 times before coming here.

 

[from scratch]

I'm not sure exactly what you mean. It kinda sounds logical. I see holiness as what the apostles teach is holy. The apostles teaching isn't the law, its our guide, so if we follow that we're putting our trust in Christ and not the law. Its just teaching that we should follow in faith. Its simple and effective. If that teaching was wrong to follow then it wouldn't be taught in the first place. If all we needed to do was focus on Christ and not his teaching also, then He wouldn't have taught it to us.

Please identify what you're talking about as the teaching of the Apostles.

 

[from scratch]

I may not be as mature as i like but i do know one thing for sure. GT is a huge stumbling Block. While we all argue we cause each other other to stumble. Don't say it isn't so because it is. I'm bowing out of GT. I'm tired of stumbling over it, i'm tired of causing others to stumble and tired of trying to make us all see this. The Kingdom Of heaven is about Peace and righteousness and Joy in the Holy Spirit. Is that what anyone sees here? That's not what i see. Romans 14 is talking about causing each other to stumble over meat and drink and holy days and anything else that causes us to stumble needlessly, my faith is in Christ not the law, i follow the written words of the apostles, not the law... because they are a guide for me and because they are a lamp for my feet, so i wont stumble in the dark, i trust Jesus Christ and His words and the words of the His apostles. I'm done now. Peace be unto you all and goodbye.

Romans 14 again.


Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Rom 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
Rom 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
Rom 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:



17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.


23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Well you could at least give a friendly

 

[from scratch]

sounds a lot like dualism. Anyway, I'll reread Rom 6 and try to understand what you guys are getting at.

I'm trying to find and explanation or illustration but am coming up blank at the moment. Well at least one you can't argue with.

 

[from scratch]

If by 'it' you mean the holy law about which my post referred, then the rest reads rather strange and seems out of place.

Thankfully, we do not have to go too far from Romans 7 to find what would be more suitable:

Romans 7:23-25 KJV
(23) But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
(24) O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
(25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Which of these two, the law of God or the law of sin, is Paul mentioning in the Colossians verses you provided?

I think they are one in the same. I know you're asking how. The law of sin is a reference to the law. The law of God is a reference to the law. Did you miss that semi colon?