Holiness

[Frogster]

We can only begin to appropriate the righteousness of God if we first start believing in Him and His promises-all revealed most exhaustively by and through the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. That's the only meaning of faith here-it's the essential beginning of a restored relationship of man with God whereby God ultimately becomes the god of man again. It can't happen without grace, but it can't proceed from there without mans' response-first a response of faith, and continuing on from there to a closer and closer walk with God and obedience to what He guides us to do.

This is simply to say that man needs the righteousness of God-the righteousness God created for man, rather than mans' own, self-righteousness, which gets him into all sorts of trouble and doesn't please God even when it's utilized to attempt to obey His Law. We need the obedience that's prompted and aided by God, unto His righteousness.



Not sure where you’re going with this. Are you saying there’s an essential difference between salvation and eternal life?

well...reading your post, I hear mans effort as the base though bro, to much obedience centeredness, that sooner or later fails.

Let me ask you this..

When we were in Adam, dead in sin, and in that reign, dominion, Rom 5, did we have to work to stay in that condition?

 

[11822]

The bible said to use fear to snatch some from the flames and on others have compassion, making a difference. We can't use a one size fits all approach. We need to warn people

Jud_1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

 

[Frogster]

The bible said to use fear to snatch some from the flames and on others have compassion, making a difference. We can't use a one size fits all approach. We need to warn people

Jud_1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

Do it in love though bro.

 

[11822]

well...reading your post, I hear mans effrot as the base though bro.

Let me ask you this..

When we were in Adam, dead in sin, and in that reign, dominion, Rom 5, did we have to work to stay in that condition?

That's not our call to make. We are called to be doers of the word. That's what i'm doing, i'm not trying to justify myself, only heed the warnings given to me.

 

[11822]

Do it in love though bro.

Brother, i love you but you really need to stop with the examination of others and preach the whole word of God.

 

[Nanopants]

We can only begin to appropriate the righteousness of God if we first start believing in Him and His promises-all revealed most exhaustively by and through the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. That's the only meaning of faith here-it's the essential beginning of a restored relationship of man with God whereby God ultimately becomes the god of man again. It can't happen without grace, but it can't proceed from there without mans' response-first a response of faith, and continuing on from there to a closer and closer walk with God and obedience to what He guides us to do.

It's all made so very, very clear when Jesus Christ described himself to be the doorway (John 10:9). Yes, action is required, but for what?

This is simply to say that man needs the righteousness of God-the righteousness God created for man, rather than mans' own, self-righteousness, which gets him into all sorts of trouble and doesn't please God even when it's utilized to attempt to obey His Law. We need the obedience that's prompted and aided by God, unto His righteousness.

I would almost agree with you here except for the bolded statement. As it's worded, it seems to imply that there is some righteousness that is apart from the righteousness of God himself which he intends for us to obtain. But there is only one who is good, and that is God.

Not sure where you’re going with this. Are you saying there’s an essential difference between salvation and eternal life?

No, that's not what I'm saying. Salvation is a work of God. The promise is clear: all who believe have eternal life (John 6:47).

What I am getting at is that here and now, we may press forward to see what awaits us.

That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

(Eph 1:17,18)

 

[cubinity]

Do it in love though bro.

I agree. It is a noble calling to want to help people, to "snatch them from the flames," as some might say. But, we are more than encouraged to do it out of that truth which transcends anything and everything else: love.

 

[Frogster]

That's not our call to make. We are called to be doers of the word. That's what i'm doing, i'm not trying to justify myself, only heed the warnings given to me.

I was not quoting you there.

 

[cubinity]

That's not our call to make. We are called to be doers of the word. That's what i'm doing, i'm not trying to justify myself, only heed the warnings given to me.

I believe that, and I believe you are doing it right.
It really is in the doing, in the practical discipleship to Christ, that we find the transcendent truth in His teachings and leadership.

 

[Frogster]

I agree. It is a noble calling to want to help people, to "snatch them from the flames," as some might say. But, we are more than encouraged to do it out of that truth which transcends anything and everything else: love.

Amen.

 

[fhansen]

Ok, I understand what you're saying. But arent we supposed to read the gospels, through the eyes of grace? That's what Paul later elaborated on. We have to go by the full NT, and all the expanded revelation that unfolded.

In other words, look what Paul depended on, not himself. Did he work hard in his ministry, sure..amen. But where did the power come from?

1 Cor 15:10But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me.

Col 1:29For this I toil, struggling with all his energy that he powerfully works within me.

I agree, but it still wasn't without Pauls' cooperation. I think this cooperation is what it's all about in a way. Because God is drawing us. He covets beings who finally, freely, reverse Adam & Eve's decision within themselves. We can't do this on our own but He still wants our striving, our consent, our participation. He doesn't need it. He can elect to save us any which way He wants-He could've saved A&E immediately after the fall. He could've made them obedient. But then what would've been the point of giving man free will to begin with? Our wills are the "prize", so to speak; to align them with His will, gruelingly, if that's what it takes (because hard lessons are one thing this life provides), has something to do with the glory God desires for man.

 

[cubinity]

Amen.

I think I'm finally getting what you've been trying to say. Sorry I have a thick skull.

 

[11822]

I agree. It is a noble calling to want to help people, to "snatch them from the flames," as some might say. But, we are more than encouraged to do it out of that truth which transcends anything and everything else: love.

We all need to do it with love. I'm not alone in that area. Love warns people, we need to warn people to be doers of the word.

 

[Frogster]

The bible said to use fear to snatch some from the flames and on others have compassion, making a difference. We can't use a one size fits all approach. We need to warn people

Jud_1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

just for the record, you don't like judging, rom 14...

But really, how we gonna snatch em, if we don't judge them as unsaved?
Often unsaved say they are "ok" , do ya believe em and walk away, or make a judgment call? And if they are unsaved, you would have to be in a sense judging them to condemnation, just like how Paul did, for 1-3 of Romans. So just sayin,..there is a place for all things, at the right time, even judging.

 

[Frogster]

I think I'm finally getting what you've been trying to say. Sorry I have a thick skull.

Oh heck, you're one of the most interesting guys here, glad to get to know ya too.

 

[11822]

Good bye.


Before i go let me just say that observing Sabbath is not a sin, but not being a doer of the word is. Whats more important?

 

[Frogster]

I agree, but it still wasn't without Pauls' cooperation. I think this cooperation is what it's all about in a way. Because God is drawing us. He covets beings who finally, freely, reverse Adam & Eve's decision within themselves. We can't do this on our own but He still wants our striving, our consent, our participation. He doesn't need it. He can elect to save us any which way He wants-He could've saved A&E immediately after the fall. He could've made them obedient. But then what would've been the point of giving man free will to begin with? Our wills are the "prize", so to speak; to align them with His will, gruelingly, if that's what it takes (because hard lessons are one thing this life provides), has something to do with the glory God desires for man.

I understand. I have argued against the extreme end of security, saying they have become robots, by the total complete detachment of themselves from it all.

I lean total security, total grace, but yes, there are scriptures that show people leave, they make a decision, and turn away, like in Hebrews.


I guess it is hard to imagine leaving the Lord, that's why the other night I said, "insanity is in the flesh", meaning one has to be insane, to want to leave God.

 

[cubinity]

I understand. I have argued against the extreme end of security, saying they have become robots, by the total complete detachment of themselves from it all.

I lean total security, total grace, but yes, there are scriptures that show people leave, they make a decision, and turn away, like in Hebrews.


I guess it is hard to imagine leaving the Lord, that's why the other night I said, "insanity is in the flesh", meaning one has to be insane, to want to leave God.

Some might describe the decision I'm in the process of making as leaving God.
I have become quite a fatalist lately, and that is resulting in my not seeing the need to go to church all the time, or sit around debating theology or doctrine (except for around here, I guess).
I have a longer story to tell that brought me to this decision, but I just bring it up because of what you say here, and that I don't think I'm insane.

 

[Frogster]

Some might describe the decision I'm in the process of making as leaving God.
I have become quite a fatalist lately, and that is resulting in my not seeing the need to go to church all the time, or sit around debating theology or doctrine (except for around here, I guess).
I have a longer story to tell that brought me to this decision, but I just bring it up because of what you say here, and that I don't think I'm insane.

Well..this just might be my security thing, but where ya gonna go?

 

[11822]

Thanks for the love.