Holiness

[Frogster]

i just believe what the bible says:

Psalms 119:172(NKJV)
172 My tongue shall speak of Your word, For all Your commandments are righteousness.

Then start understanding the power of sin is the law, 1 cor 15;56.

 

[fhansen]

you were raised, now just stay raised for crying out loud.

But how do we stay raised-or how do we gauge when we're falling?

 

[Frogster]

But how do we stay raised-or how do we gauge when we're falling?

Christ in us can speak. How did Noah know to build a boat?

 

[Nanopants]

But how do we stay raised-or how do we gauge when we're falling?

We can't truly follow after Christ unless we have real faith. In the worst case, if we stumble and cannot see our way, and we doubt that we are saved, is this real faith?

 

[fhansen]

Christ in us can speak. How did Noah know to build a boat?

Noah had direct communication from God-I doubt your experience has fallen along the same lines. But while I understand your point, that grace should keep us free from wanting to sin, the flesh still wants its way, and so concupiscence remains a struggle for us.

"Under the law", to my understanding, means that our motivation for obedience should not come via our own righteousness (because we don't really possess any righteousness anyway), but from the righteousness of God via grace. Either way the Law still stands as righteous, itself, as it comes from God and expresses His righteousness, and should confirm and resonate with the internal Law He writes on our hearts.

 

[Sieben]

Then start understanding the power of sin is the law, 1 cor 15;56.

no ones justified by the law.... but by faith...

but that does not mean we can sin still

living in sin
and doing sin through weakness
are two completely different things

 

[Frogster]

Noah had direct communication from God-I doubt your experience has fallen along the same lines. But while I understand your point, that grace should keep us free from wanting to sin, the flesh still wants its way, and so concupiscence remains a struggle for us.

"Under the law", to my understanding, means that our motivation for obedience should not come via our own righteousness (because we don't really possess any righteousness anyway), but from the righteousness of God via grace. Either way the Law still stands as righteous, itself, as it comes from God and expresses His righteousness, and should confirm and resonate with the internal Law He writes on our hearts.

I don't understand why you think Noah had a deeper ability to hear God, we have Christ in us.

The scriptures say, that law is not God's righteousness, but faith is.

Yes, the flesh and Spirit to envy, but law is not the answer, unless you can show me how?

That is why Abraham, was justified by faith, and the already justified Galatians, were reminded to live by faith, with the Abrahamic reference, not LIVE by law in Galatians. Abe did not have the law.

 

[Frogster]

no ones justified by the law.... but by faith...

but that does not mean we can sin still

living in sin
and doing sin through weakness
are two completely different things

No, we don't want to live in the sinful nature, that is on the cross, Rom 6;6, gal 5;24.

 

[fhansen]

I don't understand why you think Noah had a deeper ability to hear God, we have Christ in us.

I don't believe for a moment that you receive the kind of communication Noah must have received. It's possible, but God simply doesn't communicate that way in this world, even to believers, normatively. That's simply the honest truth.

The scriptures say, that law is not God's righteousness, but faith is.

The law wouldn't be called holy and good and spiritual if it does not express Gods righteousness. God wants us obedient, but not legalistic.

Yes, the flesh and Spirit to envy, but law is not the answer, unless you can show me how?

You're right, the law is not the answer to becoming obedient to God, because no one is justified by the Law. But we'll all be judged by the Law because the Law is right. We must come to obey by grace, rather than by our own efforts. God must "write His laws on our hearts and in our minds".

That is why Abraham, was justified by faith, and the already justified Galatians, were reminded to live by faith, with the Abrahamic reference, not LIVE by law in Galatians. Abe did not have the law.

Yes, faith is the beginning of our walk with God, once we've received the grace to accept it. Otherwise we're just pretending to be holy by trying to follow His law, because our obedience will not be motivated by grace.

 

[JRSut1000]

I disagree, God speaks whenever and to whomever He so desires. It does happen today. It happened from the beginning, in the Old Testament, in the New Testament, and today.

"God wants us to be obedient, but not legalistic". Agreed However, we must define what legalism is, correct? I think some of us think that simply being 'legal' is legalism already, whereas I see legalism as 1) using the law to justify and 2) following traditions and burdens that are apart or in excess to the law.

Faith -> Obedience.

 

[fhansen]

I disagree, God speaks whenever and to whomever He so desires. It does happen today. It happened from the beginning, in the Old Testament, in the New Testament, and today.

"God wants us to be obedient, but not legalistic". Agreed However, we must define what legalism is, correct? I think some of us think that simply being 'legal' is legalism already, whereas I see legalism as 1) using the law to justify and 2) following traditions and burdens that are apart or in excess to the law.

Faith -> Obedience.

God does speak whenever and to whomever He so desires, but the kind of direct, specific information as would've been given to Noah fall under the rubric of locutions, or some such thing IMO, and are very rare. I know people who've received such experiences and they're generally profound beyond words.

 

[JRSut1000]

I don't think it's as uncommon as people might believe. I do think lack of faith is a big reason that people don't hear clearly from God. But I do know that my husband and I have been given both direction and teaching and words of knowledge via dreams and during prayer.

I don't want to get off topic, let's keep going with the holiness thread.

 

[11822]

So straighten us out. I think your just expressing things to get your way. We have given you permission to have it your way for you. We aren't about to give you permission to enslave uf to your bondage and level of pain and woe war. Most of us have fought that one one once upon a time.

I'm not the one judging. Im expressing my dissaproval of your judgment of me, that's all. You say that if i concentrate on not doing evil things i am wrong, you tried to make me look like a false Christian by calling me an enemy of the cross and saying i'm cut off from Christ, and you even tried to make me look like a weak Christian also, as if you were stronger by telling me not to listen to the apostles call to abstaining from all that is evil. But i'm not wrong, the apostles teach this. I'm not the one demanding that its my way or the highway, did i ever judge you like you, frogster and nanopants did me? No. You say above in your post that im seeking bondage but you're wrong again, I was a slave to my flesh before i began to obey God, now Jesus sets me free and you want me to go back to that? No i think i should go forward and continue to resist my flesh, i should humble myself, control my tongue and seek peace, holiness and love in obedience to God.

 

[11822]

Are you answering both questions with that one statement? Oh I having a little problem with the negative manner of statement here. Of course Paul is on a spiritual plane.
And those who demand the performance of the flesh according to the law are sowing in the flesh and will reap corruption just like you said.

Its those who do works of the flesh that are sowing to the flesh and will reap corruption, you seem to have it backwards or something

 

[11822]

To your verse, but your comments don't fit them. It is most unfortunate that you don't understand wht the verse says enough to apply them to your life.

I understand it.

 

[11822]

Your qupte covers alot of ground. But NTL I think for the thread and forum in general my attitude is expressed very vell in verse 6 above. And I certianly apply verses 15 and 17 as you have bolded.

Now I'm deffinately a follower of Christ. Nothing in verse 3 is manifest in my life. And when it comes to my relationship with God I'm certianly not light. I do enjoy a good joke, but I don't think that Paul is saying don't have any fun in life.

What do you give thanks for? The last Thanksgiving themed religious assembly I was in everybody including the pastor gave thanks for temporal thing and not one single person gave thanks for their salvation. I find it amazing. The supposed reason for the assembly was left out. Has God become the excuxe and not the reason.

Yes that verse you like so well says the wrath of God comes upon children of disobedience, the author is telling us to not be like them, but instead to be wise and know what the will of God is, which is not being disobedient, but instead seeking obedience by not doing those evil things the author tells us not to do. That's what i'm doing

 

[11822]

Depends on who your referring to as the teacher. If it is Paul through the Holy Spirit I agree.

Then we agree on something

 

[11822]

Nice posts of Scripture. But I do wonder why your posting them with the emphasis by bolding if you're not also preaching and in this case condemning others while upholding yourself. That is a no fly.

I'm not condemning i'm defending myself. And so what if i was preaching this message? Is it bad? No, Paul preached it, we cant preach only half his message can we?

 

[11822]

Amazing! simplly amazing I say amazing. This vividly demonstrates that you're here for something other than personal growth or the helpin of others. But you're providing a wonderful opportunity for the truth to be expressed.

You can stay down trodden and discouraged if you like. Personally I don't much care for misery and self debasement behavior.

I'm past my time limit as usual this morning, but I must go to town for business. Later folks.

Then why cause so much misery then, why not lift people up instead of tearing them down?

 

[11822]

was the law the answer in eph? he just got done calling it abolished, so how was law the answer? Again, we put off the old..try to understand that is what happened when u got saved, you died...you were raised, now just stay raised for crying out loud.

The whole Gospel is the right answer, its not the law, its instruction. He didn't abolish the law that he himself teaches, its Gods will for us to obey it so he preaches it.