Holiness

[Nanopants]

So I finally managed to find my way out of the singles forum. I'll tell ya, if you wish to keep yourselves holy, do NOT go in there!

You have to be holy, not just believe you are holy.

Striving to be holy is the wrong pursuit. Striving after the One who is holy will provide much better results.

we are righteous by faith or trusting him .

Let's not forget that we are *counted* as righteous for believing:

For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

This doesn't necessarily mean that we *are* righteous in the now:

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Ah repentance from dead works. What are those dead works? Are they just what we call sin? those dead works must not be able to make or aide one into the state of holiness or righteousness if they are sin. Some here say they're not.

Every work that is manifest in setting our hearts upon that which is contrary to the nature of God is essentially dead.

The law doesn't apply to being declared righteous, but holiness is Gods will and not the "law"
. So if someone seeks to obey the 10 commandments because they think its Gods will, are they putting themselves under the law or obedience to Christ and Gods will found in his call to holiness?

Holiness does not come by observing the law. Again, it is the wrong pursuit.

Can we know for certain especially if we look at Romans 14 and Paul's tolerance to holy days weather or not someone is putting themselves under law or just faith in Jesus and obedience to god in his call to holiness? If someones seeks holiness but also hopes in Jesus for salvation, does observing a holy day destroy the work of Christ? I don't think it does because if a man thinks something is sin then for him its sin. And holiness to me is a rejection of sin while hoping in Jesus to declare us righteous. Its rejecting sin and self righteousness at the same time.

I wouldn't say it destroys the work of Christ, it just doesn't measure up.

But the idea of rejecting sin and self righteousness at the same time brings up an interesting point: everything we're discussing here (holiness, righteousness, etc) are aspects of God's nature, which is singular. In other words, there is only one Spirit, one divine Nature, by which we may actually receive these things. You are correct that rejecting sin and self righteousness happens simultaneously. It's all really very simple: it happens when we worship God in truth and in spirit (honestly and inwardly) for who He is (the image of Christ on the cross), and in doing so we love God with all our heart, mind, and soul. And when this happens, His righteousness and holiness through His spirit will manifest in our actions (by taking up our crosses), and this requires strength to carry out.

 

[from scratch]

Well I can tell you what it doesn't mean, It doesn't mean that we should live like the rest of the world, doing what the rest of the world is doing, in all the sinful lustful ways its culture is going

I'll buy that!

 

[JRSut1000]

Without holiness, no one will see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).

Pretty strong warning! I heard this verse tonight on a broadcast and I wanted to post it to this discussion.

 

[from scratch]

The law doesn't apply to being declared righteous, but holiness is Gods will and not the "law"
. So if someone seeks to obey the 10 commandments because they think its Gods will, are they putting themselves under the law or obedience to Christ and Gods will found in his call to holiness? Can we know for certain especially if we look at Romans 14 and Paul's tolerance to holy days weather or not someone is putting themselves under law or just faith in Jesus and obedience to god in his call to holiness? If someones seeks holiness but also hopes in Jesus for salvation, does observing a holy day destroy the work of Christ? I don't think it does because if a man thinks something is sin then for him its sin. And holiness to me is a rejection of sin while hoping in Jesus to declare us righteous. Its rejecting sin and self righteousness at the same time.

And neither do I think that the observance of a holy day proves anything. The requiring of such is a different story altogether and has nothing to do with holiness.

If somone one puts themselves under the law because they think they have to prove they love God, it is following the law for salvation. Another way I see it is fire insurance or hedging your bets to insure a win. That simply isn't faith or godly holiness. That's fear straight up.

There are sites with testimonies to such from people who have been delivered - set free from bondage.

 

[JRSut1000]

It certainly isn't about proving anything to God. It's simply about doing what He asks because He said so is enough for me. God shows up in big ways when we obey Him. He's shown up in big ways on His holy days in the old testament AND the new.

Without going into the Law debate [again], I will simply say this. Holiness is obeying God because 1) we love Him and 2) we know who He is, that He is worthy of all our obedience.

 

[11822]

So I finally managed to find my way out of the singles forum. I'll tell ya, if you wish to keep yourselves holy, do NOT go in there!



Striving to be holy is the wrong pursuit. Striving after the One who is holy will provide much better results.

Holiness does not come by observing the law. Again, it is the wrong pursuit.


.

Striving after the one who is holy also means striving to obey him which means to strive after holiness because he calls us to follow it. Forget about the law and look at Gods will that the apostles teach us to obey.

 

[from scratch]

So I finally managed to find my way out of the singles forum. I'll tell ya, if you wish to keep yourselves holy, do NOT go in there!

Here, here and I don't even imbibe.

Striving to be holy is the wrong pursuit. Striving after the One who is holy will provide much better results.

Let's not forget that we are *counted* as righteous for believing:

This doesn't necessarily mean that we *are* righteous in the now:

NOPE! that would be referring to the flesh which will never be righteous. Most can't understand this.

Every work that is manifest in setting our hearts upon that which is contrary to the nature of God is essentially dead.

Holiness does not come by observing the law. Again, it is the wrong pursuit.

I wouldn't say it destroys the work of Christ, it just doesn't measure up.

But the idea of rejecting sin and self righteousness at the same time brings up an interesting point: everything we're discussing here (holiness, righteousness, etc) are aspects of God's nature, which is singular. In other words, there is only one Spirit, one divine Nature, by which we may actually receive these things. You are correct that rejecting sin and self righteousness happens simultaneously. It's all really very simple: it happens when we worship God in truth and in spirit (honestly and inwardly) for who He is (the image of Christ on the cross), and in doing so we love God with all our heart, mind, and soul. And when this happens, His righteousness and holiness through His spirit will manifest in our actions (by taking up our crosses), and this requires strength to carry out.

 

[from scratch]

Without holiness, no one will see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).

Pretty strong warning! I heard this verse tonight on a broadcast and I wanted to post it to this discussion.

Nice verse. Do you know what holiness in that verse means? I'd love to have a little more input from you on this.

 

[from scratch]

It certainly isn't about proving anything to God. It's simply about doing what He asks because He said so is enough for me. God shows up in big ways when we obey Him. He's shown up in big ways on His holy days in the old testament AND the new.

Without going into the Law debate [again], I will simply say this. Holiness is obeying God because 1) we love Him and 2) we know who He is, that He is worthy of all our obedience.

IOW you link holiness to the observance of the law.

 

[JRSut1000]

I link holiness to following what God has commanded, I already know we disagree on how this is played out. Really don't want to go into THAT whole argument. There's been enough threads on the issue.

But holiness as a word means "set-apartness". So without that, no one will see the Lord. Set-apart from the ways that are not God's and set-apart TO His ways.

 

[11822]

Nice verse. Do you know what holiness in that verse means? I'd love to have a little more input from you on this.

Allow me to rephrase. Is observing the practice of abstinence the same as obeying the law?

 

[JRSut1000]

Woah, what's that got to do with anything?

 

[11822]

.

 

[fhansen]

Without holiness, no one will see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).

Pretty strong warning! I heard this verse tonight on a broadcast and I wanted to post it to this discussion.

Good idea. Here's some more:

“Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” Matt 5:48

But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy." 1Peter 1:15-16

“For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven Matt 5

12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. Rom 8:12-13

Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. Heb 12:14

For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. Rom 2:13

God "will give to each person according to what he has done." To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. Rom 2:6

Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. Phil 4:4-14

For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels: and then will he render to every man according to his works. Matt 16:27

Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. Gal 6:7[FONT=&quot]
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Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Cor. 6:9-10

 

[JRSut1000]

Yup pretty strong/solemn verses! We aren't called to be miserable sinners. Being saved means just that - saved/rescued from spiritual death, from our sins, and from sinful patterns. Called out of our old life and death (spiritual) to walk in His purposes and ways. That's what it means to be set-apart.

 

[CryptoLutheran]

Yup pretty strong/solemn verses! We aren't called to be miserable sinners. Being saved means just that - saved/rescued from spiritual death, from our sins, and from sinful patterns. Called out of our old life and death (spiritual) to walk in His purposes and ways. That's what it means to be set-apart.

Simul iustus et peccator.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Frogster]

oh well..back to the temple again, to try harder, instead of seeing that Jesus made me holy...I guess the temple is still up, according to some people.


New American Standard Bible
By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

 

[Frogster]

Yup pretty strong/solemn verses! We aren't called to be miserable sinners. Being saved means just that - saved/rescued from spiritual death, from our sins, and from sinful patterns. Called out of our old life and death (spiritual) to walk in His purposes and ways. That's what it means to be set-apart.

Raised up into the new holy creation, set apart from the flesh, that was on the cross..

 

[Nanopants]

Without holiness, no one will see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).

Pretty strong warning! I heard this verse tonight on a broadcast and I wanted to post it to this discussion.

Right, but let's take a look at the full context of the verse:

Follow peace with all [men], and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

It certainly isn't about proving anything to God. It's simply about doing what He asks because He said so is enough for me. God shows up in big ways when we obey Him. He's shown up in big ways on His holy days in the old testament AND the new.

Without going into the Law debate [again], I will simply say this. Holiness is obeying God because 1) we love Him and 2) we know who He is, that He is worthy of all our obedience.

I agree. And this is what He said:

Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

And Paul smartly adds:

I am crucified with Christ...

And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law.

Which is also why he says:

Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

We are not lawless!

But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

 

[11822]

Is obeying the 10 commandments the law that makes us enemies to the cross?