Holiness VS Worldliness

Bluelion said:

I was addressing your questions. i will not respond to Peter as you have not even touch on my point that the Op is misunderstood in it accounts. That it was not the action of the Jews which brought Judgement but there lack of faith.

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I have accurately stated what it was which brought judgment in the OP referral, God stated it plainly in the passage by saying they had turned aside from the way He commanded them. Maybe you need to read the passage again.

Bluelion said:

I have addressed it the reason they turn to a false idol was lack of faith, they did not believe Moses was ever coming back. You must look at the whole time of them in the wildernesses to see what it was about.

You say there deed were not Holy, i say they did not have faith so they had no deeds, why is this so hard to understand.

I am sorry you want me to agree with you and I am not. Doesn't seem like your even trying to see what I am speaking of more like you want to be right.

I won't address Peter because I am sticking to one thing at a time.

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Show me in the passage where it says they did not have faith. You are adding that in and you are ignoring the behavior of the Israelites when the went off to party after they turned aside from the way God commanded them. God had commanded them to do certain things before Moses went up into the mountain. They disobeyed. You can say that they disobeyed because they did not have faith, but if you ignore the fact that God had commanded them and they turned aside from the way God commanded them as clearly stated in the passage, then you are ignoring the Bible while you try to tell me what it says. Please read the passage more slowly.

Bluelion said:

I have addressed it the reason they turn to a false idol was lack of faith, they did not believe Moses was ever coming back. You must look at the whole time of them in the wildernesses to see what it was about.

You say there deed were not Holy, i say they did not have faith so they had no deeds, why is this so hard to understand.

I am sorry you want me to agree with you and I am not. Doesn't seem like your even trying to see what I am speaking of more like you want to be right.

I won't address Peter because I am sticking to one thing at a time.

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You came in here calling the whole thread silly, the whole OP misguided, now I'm calling you out on it. Prove it.

Bluelion said:

I have addressed it the reason they turn to a false idol was lack of faith, they did not believe Moses was ever coming back. You must look at the whole time of them in the wildernesses to see what it was about.

You say there deed were not Holy, i say they did not have faith so they had no deeds, why is this so hard to understand.

I am sorry you want me to agree with you and I am not. Doesn't seem like your even trying to see what I am speaking of more like you want to be right.

I won't address Peter because I am sticking to one thing at a time.

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I think you won't address 1 Pet 1:13-17 because it powerfully and plainly states what I am saying in the OP in regards to Exodus 32. If you are going to come here and insult me by calling the whole thread "silly" and the whole OP misguided, then you need to explain exactly what is wrong with what I am saying in this thread and you MUST address 1 Pet 1:13-17 as one of the supporting passages of the OP. It is part of this whole thread, and you said the whole thread is "silly", so you need to apologize or explain Biblically by addressing all of the passages which support the OP and my assertion that Moses was showing holiness in his life by his obedience to God and the Israelites were showing worldliness in disobedience away from God.

I do not appreciate you coming here and calling this whole thread silly and the whole OP misguided.

Bluelion said:

I have addressed it the reason they turn to a false idol was lack of faith, they did not believe Moses was ever coming back. You must look at the whole time of them in the wildernesses to see what it was about.

You say there deed were not Holy, i say they did not have faith so they had no deeds, why is this so hard to understand.

I am sorry you want me to agree with you and I am not. Doesn't seem like your even trying to see what I am speaking of more like you want to be right.

I won't address Peter because I am sticking to one thing at a time.

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EXODUS 32

7And the Lord said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves: 8They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. 9And the Lord said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:

Tell me where it says they acted bad because they didn't have faith. You are adding that in to a passage that is very clear and plain in what it says. Why complicate it? why not read it and quote it?

Verse 7 they "corrupted themselves". this is a willful act of rebellion, plain and simple.

Verse 8 they "turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them"
again, wilful rebellion, disobedience (see 1 Pet 1:13-17)

Verse 9 "it is a stiffnecked people" they were stubborn, in willfull disobedience, rebelling against God and they were having a party doing it, dancing, singing, and getting naked with their idol.

Their behavior was worldly, they were "fashioning themselves according to their former lusts in their ignorance" (see 1 Pet 1:13-17)

You are wrong to come in here and say the whole thread is silly and the whole OP is misguided. It's Biblical.

Avid said:

He called it, though, didn't he?

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He sure did. The Salvation Army went worldly in a big way. They still do a lot of good things, and people still get saved in their ministry, but they sure have compromised to make an industry out of ministry.

Bluelion said:

I have addressed it the reason they turn to a false idol was lack of faith, they did not believe Moses was ever coming back. You must look at the whole time of them in the wildernesses to see what it was about.

You say there deed were not Holy, i say they did not have faith so they had no deeds, why is this so hard to understand.

I am sorry you want me to agree with you and I am not. Doesn't seem like your even trying to see what I am speaking of more like you want to be right.

I won't address Peter because I am sticking to one thing at a time.

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Will it kill you to admit that what I am saying in this thread is Biblical? Would it kill you to admit that 1 Pet 1:13-17 very clearly says what I am saying in this thread? That there is a difference in behaviors that are holy and worldly? Why is it so hard to admit that when the passages I am quoting clearly point out that there is a difference in behavior that is holy and behavior that is worldly?

Bluelion said:

just because you don't understand a persons view does not mean they are wrong. I actually go to a Baptist college and it is where my education comes from. If you don't care for the information that is fine, but you are calling a whole college wrong on there view, and you have how many degrees? Your authority on scripture is what now? I fail to see why you are so certain your view is the only answer and completely right?

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You have called this whole thread silly and the whole OP misguided. All you are doing is insulting me while you refuse to explain yourself and you refuse to give your comments on the passages which are focal for the thread and the OP. If my view is wrong regarding the passage in Exodus 32 and 1 Pet 1:13-17 being supportive of my view and comments regarding the OP, then please give your better comments and quit insulting me by calling the whole thread silly and the whole OP misguided. If you cannot comment on how 1 Pet 1:13-17 is illustrative of the contrast between holiness and worldliness shown in Moses and the children of Israel in Exodus 32, and you cannot show me how I am wrong in my comments relating to those passages by explaining those passages in a better way, then you should at least quit insulting me by calling the whole thread silly and the whole OP misguided because it seems to be beyond your level of understanding. I think the passage in 1 Pet 1:13 clearly supports Exodus 32 to show the difference between holiness and worldliness. If your education has not enable you to agree or to disagree and show why without ignoring those passages, how do you expect me to respect your education?

Please give your comments regarding 1 Pet 1:13 and explain why they do not support the OP position that Exodus 32 illustrates worldly behavior in the Israelites in contrast to holiness in the life of Moses.. Why do you keep avoiding this? Is it because you are afraid of admitting you agree with the OP? How can you read the passages referenced and not agree with the OP?

Please explain. Please give your excellent comments about 1 Pet 1:13 and Exodus 32 and tell me why Exodus 32 does not show the contrast between worldliness and holiness.

Please quit insulting me by saying this whole thread is silly and the OP is misguided. The thread is serious and Biblical, and to me is seems simple and obvious when you look at Exodus 32 and then look at 1 Pet 1:13. Why don't you read those passages and then comment on them?

Bluelion said:

I am not going by one case but the whole time in the wilderness. You don't get a complete story from a few page of a book. Maybe this is too advanced for you, but your never going to grow if you insist your view is the only one and you have all the answers. Fact is even with me taking many classes I do not know all the truths from Exodus. Its why i also try to study with the Jews. I am not here to be right I am here to grow and you can learn a lot from some people on this forum. I say this with all love in my heart. I ask you are we not also commanded to be humble. Ok, i feel i should try once more.

The Jews turning from God worshiping idols falling short of the mark is nothing that not each and every one of has done. So the question is why were they forbidden from the promises land and that generation reject by God. If they did what we all do it is nothing new, no? What they did that the rest of us do not do is they had no faith and that is why God rejected them. do you get that? We have faith in Jesus and our faith saves us as Jesus said so many times and repeated by Paul. The final result of the story is that generation of Jews was rejected by God, why? Because they had no faith. You have to read the whole story. They show this time and time again. God even had to protect Moses because they were going to kill him because they had no faith and thought Moses was leading them to their death. time and time again throughout the whole story they showed they had no faith. They turned from God because they had no faith. Do you see now? read the whole story, not one part. that is called context. I do not care for you accusing me of sinning by adding to the word of God. I did not add anything i put it in context.

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Thank you for contributing to the discussion constructively, and ceasing to call the whole thread silly and the whole OP misguided. Your educated opinion and comments are welcome. Now the benefits of your education are showing and I can appreciate it. These passages always seemed simple to me in their meaning, and I felt I had a pretty good understanding of what they said the first time I read them around 25 years ago. Your education is helping to shed some light on the passages.

Now let's examine your comments and try to put them in context for the discussion regarding worldliness VS holiness in this Biblical discussion. I will quote your comments and question you in order to draw from your wisdom and college education and training, with all due respect sir.

"The Jews turning from God worshiping idols falling short of the mark is nothing that not each and every one of has done."

This statement of yours is rich and profound. Correct me if I am wrong and not understanding you accurately. You are saying every one of us have fallen short of the mark so it's nothing that the Jews turned from God to worship idols? Are you talking about the passage in Exodus 32 where they danced with music, singing, feasting, and nudity after they made a golden calf? Can you give scripture references so we can see exactly what you are talking about? Can you show in Exodus where the Jews turning to idols is nothing each of us has not done? Since we have all done it, does that make it ok to do it?

"So the question is why were they forbidden from the promises land and that generation reject by God."

I'm sorry, but this is not the topic of this thread. The question of this thread is worldliness VS holiness. Please remain on topic.


"If they did what we all do it is nothing new, no? What they did that the rest of us do not do is they had no faith and that is why God rejected them. do you get that?"

I don't see this in the passages of Exodus 32. It seems to me that God, in Exodus 32, repeatedly stated that the Israelites willfully disobeyed. I have given three clearly stated references from God in Exodus 32 in which He says they disobeyed and they were stubborn in doing so.

Are you trying to say the Israelites did nothing new and we all do the same things, so God rejects us? That has nothing to do with the OP or this thread.
This thread is about worldliness VS holiness, how they are contrasted against each other and how 1 Pet 1:13-17 advises us to be holy and not worldly, not fashioning ourselves according to our former lusts in ignorance like the children of Israel were doing when they danced, sang, feasted, and got naked when they in disobeyed God and turned aside from the way He had commanded them. Please keep your comments focused on the OP.

"We have faith in Jesus and our faith saves us as Jesus said so many times and repeated by Paul."

Again, though a beautiful statement by an excellent gentleman and scholar such as ourself, this has nothing to do with the OP of worldliness VS holiness. Try to focus on the passage in Exodus 32 which is the illustration for this thread, and the supporting passage of 1 Pet 1:13.

. They turned from God because they had no faith. Do you see now? read the whole story, not one part. that is called context. I do not care for you accusing me of sinning by adding to the word of God. I did not add anything i put it in context.[/QUOTE.
Are you reading Exodus 32 and 1 Pet 1:13-17?
You are claiming things are in the text without quoting the text. Show me in the text where it says they had no faith. It's not in Exodus 32:7 where it says they corrupted themselves. It's not in 32:8 where it says they turned aside quickly out of the way God commanded them. It's not in 32: 9 where God said they were stiffnecked.

Having faith VS not having faith is not the subject of this thread, and no, I don't see in Exodus 32 where it said they had no faith. I do see in Exodus 32 Please try to illustrate the difference between worldliness and holiness as I have done with Exodus 32 and supported by 1 Pet 1:13-17.

If you are trying to say having faith makes it ok to act like the children of Israel, dancing, singing, and getting naked and feasting and it's not worldly as long as you say "Praise the Lord" and you don't worship a golden calf, please say so plainly and explain how that behavior can be considered holy.

If you are trying to say that Moses climbing the mountain in obedience to God does not illustrate that he was being holy, please say so. You seem to be wandering off topic a lot and then taking shots at the OP from outer space. I'm sure your education has enabled you to quote 1 Pet 1:13-17 and use it to illustrate the difference between the Israelites being worldly in their behavior and Moses being holy in his behavior.

I don't know why you are trying to say things that are not related to the OP.
What are you really trying to say? Are you trying to say that because you ARE holy, it is not possible for you to act worldly? Are you trying to say that because you ARE NOT holy, it's ok for you to act worldly?

What is it that you are trying to say?

What are you trying to say, and please stay on topic by showing the contrast between being holy as we are exhorted to DO in 1 Pet 1:13-17, and being worldly like the children of Israel were doing when they were singing, feasting, and dancing naked while Moses was serving God in Exodus 32

Bluelion said:

I am not going by one case but the whole time in the wilderness. You don't get a complete story from a few page of a book. Maybe this is too advanced for you, but your never going to grow if you insist your view is the only one and you have all the answers. Fact is even with me taking many classes I do not know all the truths from Exodus. Its why i also try to study with the Jews. I am not here to be right I am here to grow and you can learn a lot from some people on this forum. I say this with all love in my heart. I ask you are we not also commanded to be humble. Ok, i feel i should try once more.

The Jews turning from God worshiping idols falling short of the mark is nothing that not each and every one of has done. So the question is why were they forbidden from the promises land and that generation reject by God. If they did what we all do it is nothing new, no? What they did that the rest of us do not do is they had no faith and that is why God rejected them. do you get that? We have faith in Jesus and our faith saves us as Jesus said so many times and repeated by Paul. The final result of the story is that generation of Jews was rejected by God, why? Because they had no faith. You have to read the whole story. They show this time and time again. God even had to protect Moses because they were going to kill him because they had no faith and thought Moses was leading them to their death. time and time again throughout the whole story they showed they had no faith. They turned from God because they had no faith. Do you see now? read the whole story, not one part. that is called context. I do not care for you accusing me of sinning by adding to the word of God. I did not add anything i put it in context.

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Nice try, but you might want to try once more to show how the behavior of the Israelites singing, dancing, feasting, and getting naked in Exodus 32 was not worldly (that is what you are trying to say, right? you are trying to say the Israelites were not being worldly, right? Can you tell me what it is to be worldly if the children of Israel were not being worldly?) while Moses was being holy in obedience to God, and please show why you think 1 Peter 1:13-17 does not tell us how to be holy like Moses and not worldly like the Israelites. Please stay on topic for this thread, worldliness VS holiness, and the OP.

Bluelion said:

I do not care for you accusing me of sinning by adding to the word of God. I did not add anything i put it in context.

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You are obviously a fine scholar and a great Christian, trying to help me understand the Bible.

Thank you again for trying to show how the text of the OP, Exodus 32, illustrates the difference between holiness and worldliness in contrast illustrated by Moses in his actions and the Israelites in their actions.


Now my friendly blue Lion sir,
I do not care for you accusing me of accusing you of sinning. You are adding the word "sinning" to my words the same as you are trying to use "faith" or "lack of faith" by saying it is in the text when you are not quoting the text the same as you are not quoting me when you accuse me of accusing you of sinning.

I'm simply trying to get you to focus on Exodus 32 and how it shows worldly behavior in the Israelites and holy behavior in Moses and how 1 Pet 1:13-17 tells us how we can be holy and reminds us that God commands us to be holy.

Thank you for all the work you have done in college learning so you can talk about these passages without brushing them aside.

You came in here loudly calling the whole thread "silly" and the whole OP misguided, but I do appreciate that you seem to be apologizing for calling the whole thread "silly" and the whole OP misguided by offering your comments to show the contrast between worldliness and holiness which is the topic of this thread.

Please offer more comments to show the contrast between worldliness and holiness.

Thank you sir.

now faith said:

As hard as it is for me to admit it, the years in a legal Church helped me a lot.

Would I go Back?

NO.

But looking back at the teaching and one on one talks , I realized it encouraged me to read God's Word more.

As well it was not all bad ,some of the teaching was sound and good to know.

When we are sensitive to the still small voice, we can perceive the benefits of being where God wants us to be in his perfect time.

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That's great! That's an excellent statement worth quoting!!!

"When we are sensitive to the still small voice, we can perceive the benefits of being where God wants us to be in his perfect time."

God had given the law loudly and clearly to the children of Israel before He told Moses to come up into the mountain. They all heard it loud and clear, and only had to listen to that still small voice when Moses went up with God into the mountain. That small still voice would have reminded them of the law God had given them loudly and clearly a short time before, and would have reminded them of the great miracles God had done to bring them out of Egypt, but they did not listen, they did not care that it was God who gave them the law and who repeatedly reminded them that he brought them out of Egypt, and they chose to disobey God and resorted to the kinds of behavior they had learned in Egypt.


Will you please look at 1 Peter 1:13-17 and how simply it says what I am trying to say in this thread? I'm not talking about legalism, I'm talking about a personal drive to be holy, consecrated, yielded to God for His service at all times in all things in all ways wherever He calls me to go and whatever He calls me to do. He does say I'm supposed to pray without ceasing, rejoice ever more, give thanks in and for all things. It is entirely possible to do these things every moment of the day. It is entirely possible for me to be holy. When I am not being holy, I am not being holy and there is never an excuse for it. The fact that it happens because I am a sinner is not an excuse.

All I'm talking about is what the Bible says and how it applies to the way we spend every moment of our time. Every moment belongs to God and must be accounted for in every word, thought and action of every moment of our lives. Focusing or at least trying to focus our actions to honor God is being
holy or at least trying to be holy as we are commanded by God to be Holy.


All I'm doing here is trying to focus on what the Bible says and how we can apply it to our lives every moment of every day. Of course we will fail at times, but there is never an excuse for falling short. We call it sin, confess it, and try to live holy and not fall into that sin again. When we fall, we confess and forsake that sin. Leaving the sin behind is being holy. We can do things to be holy and we are commanded by God to do them. This is faith, not legalism. True faith in God compels obedience to God, and when we are full of faith our cup runs over. When our cup runs over, it spills out on the world around us and we testify of the salvation God has given us, we tell others of His mercy and His love because we become full of it, full of Him, and cannot keep it inside because our cup runs over in humble appreciation of His mercy because we are forgiven and given life when all we deserve is death for our sin...so we live for Him, by Him, in Him, with Him, through Him, for Him in eternal life now and forever and we never die! Jesus said "he that lives and believes in me will never die, believest thou this?" Now is the time for us to act like we are what God made us to be, His children, a holy people.
Every man who has this hope in him purifies himself as Christ is pure. And we know that when He shall appear, we shall be like Him for we shall see Him as He is.

I'm talking about real faith which compels me to strive toward the mark of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus...real faith that compels me to deny myself and take up my cross daily to follow Jesus, real faith that makes me a fisher of men as He said He would make me a fisher of men if I follow Him...through death into life everlasting, he passed and I follow Him there, over us death no more has dominion, for more than conquerors we are......

It's all about Jesus. Life, eternal life, is knowing God and Jesus Christ. Knowing all the time, more and more, being changed into His image more and more until we see Him face to face and are forever changed to be perfectly like Him forever and never fall short again.

Isn't it clear in my posts that I am not perfect, I have faults and weaknesses and others can name my sins if I fail to name them. That is no excuse for me not being holy and I'm preaching at myself more than anybody else because I know I am far from holy compared to the Holy One who commands me to be holy.

Goodnight.

Remember Jesus said He would be in us a well of water springing up to eternal life, and out of our bellies would flow rivers of living water? He wants us to be full of the Holy Spirit, holy, set apart for His service, full of His Holy Spirit and overflowing with love for Him and those around us, desiring all to be saved.

Goodnight.