Holiness VS Worldliness

[twin1954]

(1Ti 4:1) Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

(1Ti 4:2) Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

(1Ti 4:3) Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

(1Ti 4:4) For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

(1Ti 4:5) For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

(1Ti 4:6) If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.

(1Ti 4:7) But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.

(1Ti 4:8) For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.

(1Ti 4:9) This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.


When he says that bodily exercise profits little he ain't talking about going to the gym.


Simply put: if you are a believer act like one.

 

[SaintJoeNow]

(1Ti 4:1) Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

(1Ti 4:2) Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

(1Ti 4:3) Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

(1Ti 4:4) For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

(1Ti 4:5) For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

(1Ti 4:6) If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.

(1Ti 4:7) But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.

(1Ti 4:8) For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.

(1Ti 4:9) This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.


When he says that bodily exercise profits little he ain't talking about going to the gym.


Simply put: if you are a believer act like one.

Thank you. Have you not seen my repeated requests for you to comment on 1Pet 1:13-17?

Please comment on 1 Pet 1:13-17

 

[SaintJoeNow]

(1Ti 4:1) Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

(1Ti 4:2) Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

(1Ti 4:3) Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

(1Ti 4:4) For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

(1Ti 4:5) For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

(1Ti 4:6) If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.

(1Ti 4:7) But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.

(1Ti 4:8) For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.

(1Ti 4:9) This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.


When he says that bodily exercise profits little he ain't talking about going to the gym.


Simply put: if you are a believer act like one.

Very good! If you are a believer, act like one! Wow! Isn't that what Peter is talking about in 1Pet1:13-17, and isn't acting like a believer being holy? If the Israelites in the OP were acting like believers, and not acting worldly, God would not have been angry with them, right?

Now for the third of fourth of fifth time, please offer your comments on 1 Pet. 1:13-17.

 

[twin1954]

Now for the third of fourth of fifth time, please offer your comments on 1 Pet. 1:13-17.

Yes I will. I will work on it tonight. I don't want to just give you an answer off the top of my head.

I ask you to answer my question on the teaching of Jesus in Matt. 15 that I quoted.

 

[now faith]

Romans 2 addresses people pronouncing judgment upon others for doing the same things they do. If what we hear from too many who call themselves Christians were actually TRUE, it would mean this would include the Apostle who wrote this letter, and any preacher who preaches against sin.

It is NOT true of someone who is NOT doing the same things as he preaches against. Here is why the world thinks this is hypocritical, and why they reject it outright. I am not talking about people thinking they can be justified before the LORD, but that, IF they are indeed justified before the LORD, they would not be doing the same things! It is behavior that has been changed that we are discussing. NOT a way to make God consider us worthy of His salvation.

If all we hear were true, then the ONE time a preacher preached the SHORTEST sermon, and the GREATEST NUMBER of people responded, would not be possible. However, the scriptures say that Jonah walked halfway through Nineveh, preached a sermon of about 8 words, walked out of the city, and ALL of the people there were spared certain destruction when they repented. This does not mean ALL went to paradise at their eventual death, but that they were spared (saved) from a determined destruction from God.

If preachers cannot preach against bad behavior as examples of the sinful nature of man, NONE of us, or anyone else, would find salvation, because they would not be shown it is THEY, themselves, that need to repent.

A preacher can preach against sin,and love the sinner.

To judge is to find guilt or condemn others.



Matthew: 7. 1. Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4. Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5. Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.


The context is to pass judgement on another in a method that one would assume they are representatives of God.


Romans 2 is reaffirming the teaching of Christ in Matthew 7:1

We are not worthy to judge the out come of even a obvious act of sin.

We do not condemn people to Hell.


God will judge,the Holy Ghost will convict,but it is man's duty to love.

Quote : Billy Graham.

 

[twin1954]

Thank you. Have you not seen my repeated requests for you to comment on 1Pet 1:13-17?

Please comment on 1 Pet 1:13-17

I ask your patience. I am working on it but am about to lose my internet for a few days. I am changing to another provider and will not get the modem for a couple of days. I already see several things in the text that I want to bring out so when I do post it be prepared for a long post.

 

[Bluelion]

Your whole objection is off. You say there is nothing we can do to be godly, then you say the things we are to do follow faith. Do we do things that follow faith or do we not? It seems to be you are tying you use double talk only to ignore the whole biblical doctrine of holiness which requires obedience in faith. Are you trying to say it's ok for you to act like the Israelites did when they danced and sang and disrobed as long as you are counted Righteous and Holy by Faith, all of those words improperly capitlalized? Is it holy to improperly capitalize those words? Or is it considered Righteous and Holy because you have Faith which negates rules of grammar?

We do not write formal here, so no I don't need a grammer lesson from you, but grammer is not my strong suit to start with, however i do know how to write college formal papers. Your argument is a Fallacy distracting from the real issue with irrelevant subjects.

It is not double talk the deeds we are count as having is by God's grace. our deeds are fruit of The Holy Spirit, they are the works of The Holy Spirit not our own, but by His grace they are counted to us.

 

[Bluelion]

If children of God are acting unholy, how do you know they are children of God?

who and what are you speaking of? i might remind you as per rules you are to address the content of the post and not the person.

 

[Avid]

A preacher can preach against sin,and love the sinner...

The preacher can HATE the people he preaches to. If you think that has anything to do with whether the sinner responds to God, you are mistaken. God proved this with Jonah and Nineveh.

There is not much that a preacher can do, but be submitted to God, and be the mouthpiece of God. What you are talking about has to do with who likes coming to Church services, not who is going to be made right by a work of God in their heart.

I must tell you that I spent years attending a Church where I was not thought of highly. The LORD worked by powerful messages that were meant to demean me. Later, messages meant to falsely accuse me had a convicting effect on others. One time, the preacher tested the congregation during a sermon (intending to find something wrong with me,) and proved I was the only one there that was a Christian by that criteria.

All the rest of the people there were either family of the pastor, or people who had gone there 20 to 40 years. They were "coddled" as compared to the way I was treated. This proves the opposite of what you are saying.

If the Spirit of God is working in the heart of a person, God will show him what he needs to know, regardless of how anyone telling him feels toward him. Likewise, no matter how nice they are to the person who is NOT getting something directly from God, they will not submit to the LORD if the Holy Spirit is not drawing them. It matters almost NONE. In fact, if you truly LOVE the sinner, you will not try to lighten the Sermon by starting with a joke. You will be more concerned that the LORD is working in hearts, and that the message is taken seriously, than that everyone is smiling!

During the last two or three generations the pulpit has given less and less prominence to doctrinal preaching, until today − with very rare exceptions − it has no place at all.
Arthur W. Pink (1886−1952)
​

This is the basis of why Churches have a diminished effect in America, as compared to 150 to 250 years ago. Good, solid preaching is dismissed as being Calvinistic. Over seventy years ago, one excellent evangelist lost many speaking engagements because fundamentalists got bothered by him, and labeled him a Calvinist. His "Brand" of Calvinism was to ask, "When God saved you, did He do it on purpose? Did He intend to save you, or did it just happen?"

Please take an hour (if you read slowly) to read this excellent sermon by that man:

How God Gets A Sinner To Know He Is LOST
by Rolfe Barnard
​

http://www.achristianspirit.com/SinnerLost.html

May God teach us to look unto Jesus, and not the work of our own hands.

 

[SaintJoeNow]

We do not write formal here, so no I don't need a grammer lesson from you, but grammer is not my strong suit to start with, however i do know how to write college formal papers. Your argument is a Fallacy distracting from the real issue with irrelevant subjects.

It is not double talk the deeds we are count as having is by God's grace. our deeds are fruit of The Holy Spirit, they are the works of The Holy Spirit not our own, but by His grace they are counted to us.

The Point was not about grammar, it was about permissiveness which is what the OP is about, how the Israelites gave themselves permission to disobey God and ignore His commands. Rules of grammar are not rules of God and not following them is not an indication of uholiness, but I used it for an example.

Why don't you try to comment on the passage referred to in the OP, or on the supporting passage of 1 Pet 1:13-17? Please offer your comments on those passages and refrain from insults which can be viewed as flaming me by calling the whole thread silly as you did earlier.

 

[SaintJoeNow]

who and what are you speaking of? i might remind you as per rules you are to address the content of the post and not the person.

Originally Posted by SaintJoeNow View Post
If children of God are acting unholy, how do you know they are children of God?
who and what are you speaking of? i might remind you as per rules you are to address the content of the post and not the person.

Isn't it obvious that this question is regarding the Israelites in the passage referred to in the OP? Why don't you contribute to the conversation and offer your comments relating to the passage in Exodus referred to in the OP, or the supporting passage of 1 Pet:1:13? Please offer your comments in direct relation to those passages as they are the topic of this thread.

 

[SaintJoeNow]

We do not write formal here, so no I don't need a grammer lesson from you, but grammer is not my strong suit to start with, however i do know how to write college formal papers. Your argument is a Fallacy distracting from the real issue with irrelevant subjects.

It is not double talk the deeds we are count as having is by God's grace. our deeds are fruit of The Holy Spirit, they are the works of The Holy Spirit not our own, but by His grace they are counted to us.

You are repeatedly ignoring the OP, ignoring the passage from Exodus which is the main reference of the OP, and ignoring the main supporting Bible passages, including 1 Pet:1:13-17 Please offer your comments on these passages and contribute constructively to conversation regarding those passages.

Please offer your welcome and wise comments on 1 Pet:1:13-17, and try to relate those comments to the difference between holiness and worldliness which is the topic of this thread.

 

[SaintJoeNow]

The preacher can HATE the people he preaches to. If you think that has anything to do with whether the sinner responds to God, you are mistaken. God proved this with Jonah and Nineveh.

There is not much that a preacher can do, but be submitted to God, and be the mouthpiece of God. What you are talking about has to do with who likes coming to Church services, not who is going to be made right by a work of God in their heart.

I must tell you that I spent years attending a Church where I was not thought of highly. The LORD worked by powerful messages that were meant to demean me. Later, messages meant to falsely accuse me had a convicting effect on others. One time, the preacher tested the congregation during a sermon (intending to find something wrong with me,) and proved I was the only one there that was a Christian by that criteria.

All the rest of the people there were either family of the pastor, or people who had gone there 20 to 40 years. They were "coddled" as compared to the way I was treated. This proves the opposite of what you are saying.

If the Spirit of God is working in the heart of a person, God will show him what he needs to know, regardless of how anyone telling him feels toward him. Likewise, no matter how nice they are to the person who is NOT getting something directly from God, they will not submit to the LORD if the Holy Spirit is not drawing them. It matters almost NONE. In fact, if you truly LOVE the sinner, you will not try to lighten the Sermon by starting with a joke. You will be more concerned that the LORD is working in hearts, and that the message is taken seriously, than that everyone is smiling!

During the last two or three generations the pulpit has given less and less prominence to doctrinal preaching, until today − with very rare exceptions − it has no place at all.
Arthur W. Pink (1886−1952)
​

This is the basis of why Churches have a diminished effect in America, as compared to 150 to 250 years ago. Good, solid preaching is dismissed as being Calvinistic. Over seventy years ago, one excellent evangelist lost many speaking engagements because fundamentalists got bothered by him, and labeled him a Calvinist. His "Brand" of Calvinism was to ask, "When God saved you, did He do it on purpose? Did He intend to save you, or did it just happen?"

Please take an hour (if you read slowly) to read this excellent sermon by that man:

How God Gets A Sinner To Know He Is LOST
by Rolfe Barnard
​

Sinner Lost - aChristianSpirit

May God teach us to look unto Jesus, and not the work of our own hands.

To stay in a church like that where you were being treated like a scapegoat, you must have really believed God wanted you there and stayed there in obedience to Him, correct? I went through a very similar situation, no matter how much I practiced personal holiness to keep myself clean and honest with God, confessing my sins to God as much as I could bear and admit honestly with tears, serving God as much as I could to tell others of His gospel and promises in serving Him, it seemed I was always being painted as the bad guy. I believed God wanted me in that church and I let it roll off my back and the church grew during that time and is still growing. I still pray for them and support that pastor.

I like your statement about doctrine disappearing from the pulpit. Most churches today are full of people with itching ears demanding the preacher say things that make them feel good rather than point out their sin and unholiness.

 

[Bluelion]

Originally Posted by SaintJoeNow View Post
If children of God are acting unholy, how do you know they are children of God?
who and what are you speaking of? i might remind you as per rules you are to address the content of the post and not the person.

Isn't it obvious that this question is regarding the Israelites in the passage referred to in the OP? Why don't you contribute to the conversation and offer your comments relating to the passage in Exodus referred to in the OP, or the supporting passage of 1 Pet:1:13? Please offer your comments in direct relation to those passages as they are the topic of this thread.

you have not addressed my point I made it was not so much there actions that was the problem but their lack of faith. They were cut off of the promised land when they sent 12 scouts out to report on the land God told them to take, 2 scouts report God would be with them and they could take it but 10 reported it was impossible. They then preceded to run and speak against God. God cut out that generation from the promise land, but the two scouts which had faith were allowed to enter, one was Joshua i do believe who lead the new generation in taking Jericho. They then took the Land by faith. It is all about faith.

 

[Bluelion]

You are repeatedly ignoring the OP, ignoring the passage from Exodus which is the main reference of the OP, and ignoring the main supporting Bible passages, including 1 Pet:1:13-17 Please offer your comments on these passages and contribute constructively to conversation regarding those passages.

Please offer your welcome and wise comments on 1 Pet:1:13-17, and try to relate those comments to the difference between holiness and worldliness which is the topic of this thread.

I was addressing your questions. i will not respond to Peter as you have not even touch on my point that the Op is misunderstood in it accounts. That it was not the action of the Jews which brought Judgement but there lack of faith.

 

[Avid]

To stay in a church like that where you were being treated like a scapegoat, you must have really believed God wanted you there and stayed there in obedience to Him, correct?

I realized that there was much I needed to learn, and they knew a lot more than I did. The people who knew nothing understood certain things better than I did.

Don't get the wrong idea. There were things I still think they should have done differently, but it did not matter. God was using the sermons (something on the level of all I have said in this thread, 3 times a week) to teach me His truth. The pastor said often that the people needed to be prepared for being on their own, and getting their understanding from the LORD, and from His word, but it was clear that none (including the deacon) was having that happen.

Things I said here were things I remember learning from good sermons 30 years ago. I do not have those on tape, but remember very well.

... I like your statement about doctrine disappearing from the pulpit...

Arthur W. Pink died about 63 years ago. He said that back before or during the very early '50s. This means he was talking about a time that began before the turn of the 20th Century.

In a recent eMail, a friend quoted info from one of his contacts that showed something that was said about concerns for the dawning of the 20th Century. These have been issues of concern for me, and I have discussed these on Christan websites for many years.

This prominent Missionary Leader, who died over a hundred years ago, was asked a question at the dawn of the 20th Century, and his comments are still relevant today.

-------

"What in your opinion is the chief danger, social or political, that confronts the coming century?"

General William Booth, of the Salvation Army, replied to that question.

I consider that the chief dangers which confront the coming century will be:

1. Religion without the Holy Spirit
2. Christianity without Christ
3. Forgiveness without repentance
4. Salvation without regeneration
5. Politics without God
6. Heaven without Hell
​

----------
Each point could have a thread on its own

 

[SaintJoeNow]

I realized that there was much I needed to learn, and they knew a lot more than I did. The people who knew nothing understood certain things better than I did.

Don't get the wrong idea. There were things I still think they should have done differently, but it did not matter. God was using the sermons (something on the level of all I have said in this thread, 3 times a week) to teach me His truth. The pastor said often that the people needed to be prepared for being on their own, and getting their understanding from the LORD, and from His word, but it was clear that none (including the deacon) was having that happen.

Things I said here were things I remember learning from good sermons 30 years ago. I do not have those on tape, but remember very well.


Arthur W. Pink died about 63 years ago. He said that back before or during the very early '50s. This means he was talking about a time that began before the turn of the 20th Century.

In a recent eMail, a friend quoted info from one of his contacts that showed something that was said about concerns for the dawning of the 20th Century. These have been issues of concern for me, and I have discussed these on Christan websites for many years.

This prominent Missionary Leader, who died over a hundred years ago, was asked a question at the dawn of the 20th Century, and his comments are still relevant today.

-------

"What in your opinion is the chief danger, social or political, that confronts the coming century?"

General William Booth, of the Salvation Army, replied to that question.

I consider that the chief dangers which confront the coming century will be:

1. Religion without the Holy Spirit
2. Christianity without Christ
3. Forgiveness without repentance
4. Salvation without regeneration
5. Politics without God
6. Heaven without Hell
​

----------
Each point could have a thread on its own

General Booth would roll in his grave if he could see what's happened to the Salvation army

 

[SaintJoeNow]

I was addressing your questions. i will not respond to Peter as you have not even touch on my point that the Op is misunderstood in it accounts. That it was not the action of the Jews which brought Judgement but there lack of faith.

So give your take on the passage from Exodus mentioned in the OP, tell me all about your opinion on the passage, since you plainly stated you think the whole thread is "silly". I'm giving you the opportunity to give the correct implication of the OP scripture reference regarding the title of the thread.

You say their lack of faith brought judgment, fine. Please quote the passage and support your statement relating to the passage. Do I need to give you chapter and verse for the passage when Moses came down from the mountain after God told him he wanted to destroy them because they had turned aside from the way He had commanded them?

Please explain the passage of the OP better than I have if you think you can.
You might want to start by reading the whole passage slowly.

 

[SaintJoeNow]

I was addressing your questions. i will not respond to Peter as you have not even touch on my point that the Op is misunderstood in it accounts. That it was not the action of the Jews which brought Judgement but there lack of faith.

What is the problem with Peter 1:13-17?? Are you afraid you can't talk about that passage without agreeing with me that we are supposed to actively work to maintain holiness in our moment by moment journey on this side of heaven?

Is Peter 1:13-17 mysterious, difficult, or unclear? Why don't you tell me your opinions in detail regarding this passage?

Also, if we are not doing the things advised for us to do in Peter, is it not because the things of the world are distracting us? Can you please stick to the topic of the thread which is worldliness vs. holiness and not ignore worldliness while you try to lecture on holiness?

 

[SaintJoeNow]

I was addressing your questions. i will not respond to Peter as you have not even touch on my point that the Op is misunderstood in it accounts. That it was not the action of the Jews which brought Judgement but there lack of faith.

I do not recall you one time in this thread ever saying one word about the passage from Exodus which is the central passage for this thread. Why? why not take that passage from Exodus and explain how it is not actually showing the contrast between holiness in the life of Moses which showed in his obedience to God, and worldliness in the lives of the children of Israel which showed in their disobedience to God.

If you are going to comment on that passage, please refer directly to the part of that passage you are talking about and show how your comments are in accord with what is written in the Bible.