Holiness Pentecostals: Why Does Everyone Hate Them?

[Alive_Again]

I don't hate them! Many of the people who came out of them despise the added burdens they put on their own in their efforts to curb sin.

I imagine it would be a little tougher taking someone you just met to a place where they frown on you seeing ANY movies or whatever other restrictions might be in place.

It would be tough to look at others in the Body of Christ and to see them as sinning in some part of their life because they're not "holiness". True holiness should be a wonderful thing and something to yearn for inwardly. Think of how far they've come already though in some areas. Still, there seems to be a LOT of people out there who need healing because of how they were treated in holiness groups. -- Be thankful for the liberty you are able to walk in.

AA


"He will make you feel like you’re the only person that exists there. He’ll walk right up to you and look in your eyes. For the first time, you will understand that passion, that love that took Him to the cross for you… and you will love Him forever."
Kat Kerr

 

[FuegoPentecostes]

Just for future reference, this thread is about holiness trinitarian pentecostals . . . not United, which is a whole other subject completely.

 

[Alive_Again]

If true holiness reflects being set apart for use in the kingdom (for the King), then it should reflect motivations of love. Sometimes this will take on a form of restriction, depending on who your intended audience is.

If you're trying to win Messianic Jews who do a physical observance of the sabbath, love will dictate that you might do the same (when you're with them, whether or not believers are large do this).

If a community wears very conservative style dress, then usually love will do the same. I think sometimes though (depending on how you're led), you'll be called to demonstrate God's love for people (by having long hair), wearing jewelry, etc. to literally offend religious spirits. It shows that God loves and saves you anyway, regardless of the outward appearance.

So the conservative crowd will watch you and judge you, all the while, you're joyful and peaceful. Some of their crowd wants to come secretly talk to you because they want what you have.

But no one lives to themselves and you have to be willing to die. To knowingly go into some of these holiness groups means dying and being a slave for the Lord. Have to admit it would be hard to steer a new believer into a fellowship like that.

Kind of like the church I attended when I first got there. You'd never find any deliverance ministry and it's just part of the warfare to deal with these things. It also takes good teaching about it to be wise in the warfare.

But true holiness (to me) is maybe even being more outwardly controversial, yet when speaking to other "radical" people, drawing the line and not going to see Twilight because of what it represents. NOT seeing movies incorporating magic. It's NOT saying all of the newer alternative, socially acceptable "f words". It's NOT going to bars to drink, and it's NOT dressing with your pants hanging low. You make a statement by who you are for Him, not because you're neatly (and conservatively) packaged. If the world judges by the outward appearance, then we have to make sure a part of us reflects our "alien status" without compromising true holiness.

AA

"Every second of your life, you are either going to draw Heaven into your life or Hell into your life." -- Kat Kerr

 

[thunderbyrd]

i

 

[ToBeBlessed]

If true holiness reflects being set apart for use in the kingdom (for the King), then it should reflect motivations of love. Sometimes this will take on a form of restriction, depending on who your intended audience is.

If you're trying to win Messianic Jews who do a physical observance of the sabbath, love will dictate that you might do the same (when you're with them, whether or not believers are large do this).

If a community wears very conservative style dress, then usually love will do the same. I think sometimes though (depending on how you're led), you'll be called to demonstrate God's love for people (by having long hair), wearing jewelry, etc. to literally offend religious spirits. It shows that God loves and saves you anyway, regardless of the outward appearance.

So the conservative crowd will watch you and judge you, all the while, you're joyful and peaceful. Some of their crowd wants to come secretly talk to you because they want what you have.

But no one lives to themselves and you have to be willing to die. To knowingly go into some of these holiness groups means dying and being a slave for the Lord. Have to admit it would be hard to steer a new believer into a fellowship like that.

Kind of like the church I attended when I first got there. You'd never find any deliverance ministry and it's just part of the warfare to deal with these things. It also takes good teaching about it to be wise in the warfare.

But true holiness (to me) is maybe even being more outwardly controversial, yet when speaking to other "radical" people, drawing the line and not going to see Twilight because of what it represents. NOT seeing movies incorporating magic. It's NOT saying all of the newer alternative, socially acceptable "f words". It's NOT going to bars to drink, and it's NOT dressing with your pants hanging low. You make a statement by who you are for Him, not because you're neatly (and conservatively) packaged. If the world judges by the outward appearance, then we have to make sure a part of us reflects our "alien status" without compromising true holiness.

AA

"Every second of your life, you are either going to draw Heaven into your life or Hell into your life." -- Kat Kerr

Nice post.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

i do believe that the bible teaches that the believer must live in holiness.

May I ask which verses have convinced you that a believer must live in holiness to be saved?

 

[thunderbyrd]

May I ask which verses have convinced you that a believer must live in holiness to be saved?

ToBeBlessed: thank you for caring. i won't answer your question, instead i'll ask you PLEASE if you can, show me the verses which teach that one can be a sinner and be saved. please make sure your answer harmonizes all scripture.

thanks and i'm looking forward!

 

[Andrea411]

ToBeBlessed: thank you for caring. i won't answer your question, instead i'll ask you PLEASE if you can, show me the verses which teach that one can be a sinner and be saved. please make sure your answer harmonizes all scripture.

thanks and i'm looking forward!

Hebrews 4:16 Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

Romans 3:20-24 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it — the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus

Romans 4:15-17 For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression. That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring—not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, as it is written, “I have made you the father of many nations”— in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist.

Romans 5:1-2 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God.


Brokeness. Graham Cooke - YouTube


A psalm of David.

1 Let all that I am praise the Lord;
with my whole heart, I will praise his holy name.
2 Let all that I am praise the Lord;
may I never forget the good things he does for me.
3 He forgives all my sins
and heals all my diseases.
4 He redeems me from death
and crowns me with love and tender mercies.
5 He fills my life with good things.
My youth is renewed like the eagle’s!
6 The Lord gives righteousness
and justice to all who are treated unfairly.
7 He revealed his character to Moses
and his deeds to the people of Israel.
8 The Lord is compassionate and merciful,
slow to get angry and filled with unfailing love.
9 He will not constantly accuse us,
nor remain angry forever.
10 He does not punish us for all our sins;
he does not deal harshly with us, as we deserve.
11 For his unfailing love toward those who fear him
is as great as the height of the heavens above the earth.
12 He has removed our sins as far from us
as the east is from the west.
13 The Lord is like a father to his children,
tender and compassionate to those who fear him.
14 For he knows how weak we are;
he remembers we are only dust.
15 Our days on earth are like grass;
like wildflowers, we bloom and die.
16 The wind blows, and we are gone—
as though we had never been here.
17 But the love of the Lord remains forever
with those who fear him.
His salvation extends to the children’s children
18 of those who are faithful to his covenant,
of those who obey his commandments!
19 The Lord has made the heavens his throne;
from there he rules over everything.
20 Praise the Lord, you angels,
you mighty ones who carry out his plans,
listening for each of his commands.
21 Yes, praise the Lord, you armies of angels
who serve him and do his will!
22 Praise the Lord, everything he has created,
everything in all his kingdom.
Let all that I am praise the Lord.

You need to get your mind renewed in Christ….. andrea

 

[Purge187]

Thundefbyrd's post above brings up good points.

When we elevate dogma to the level of Christ's sacrifice, we by default bring Him down to us. Not cutting your hair, refraining from eating meat on certain days, and Heaven knows whatever other rules man conjured up to control other men won't get you into Heaven.

 

[ltwin]

There is a difference between legalism and holiness. We don't have to be legalistic to get to heaven. We do have to be holy. We don't have to be perfect, but if we are in Christ and Christ is in us, then we will be transformed into the image of Christ.

I have a problem with people who say you can live in sin and still get to heaven. I have heard advocates of Once Saved, Always Saved salvation go so far as to say that a person who said "the Sinner's Prayer" can commit murder, never repent, die, and immediately would be in the presence of Christ because all our sins are already forgiven, doncha know . . . <Whatever . . .>

The Bible is clear in Hebrews 10:26-31,

26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Once Saved, Always Saved is a delusion.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

ToBeBlessed: thank you for caring. i won't answer your question, instead i'll ask you PLEASE if you can, show me the verses which teach that one can be a sinner and be saved. please make sure your answer harmonizes all scripture.

thanks and i'm looking forward!

Romans 3
one is justified by faith apart from works

Romans 4:3-5
&#8220;Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness. Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness&#8221;

Romans 10:10
"For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved"

We know from the OT that the penalty of sin is death.

However, in the NT when we are saved by Jesus blood, we were crucified with Jesus to sin, we died with Jesus and are dead to sin, buried with Jesus to sin, so that we are a new creature, sin no longer has a hold on us! One day we will be resurrected like Jesus also.

Now, we must consider ourselves dead to sin and alive in Christ Jesus.

Romans 6:3-14
"Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. For one who has died has been set free from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace"

We are born again spiritually, because we have been crucified, died and buried with Jesus to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus! Whoo hoo!

 

[dragongunner]

There is a difference between legalism and holiness. We don't have to be legalistic to get to heaven. We do have to be holy. We don't have to be perfect, but if we are in Christ and Christ is in us, then we will be transformed into the image of Christ.

I have a problem with people who say you can live in sin and still get to heaven. I have heard advocates of Once Saved, Always Saved salvation go so far as to say that a person who said "the Sinner's Prayer" can commit murder, never repent, die, and immediately would be in the presence of Christ because all our sins are already forgiven, doncha know . . . <Whatever . . .>

The Bible is clear in Hebrews 10:26-31,

26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Once Saved, Always Saved is a delusion.

Agree.

When we get saved....repent (to turn your back on) we start a new life in Christ, sadly we are still in the sinful flesh that still wants to sin. As young babes (sinners) trying to grow into mature Christians (Christ like) it can be a struggle. Sometimes it takes time to get certain sins out of our life, a struggle, but we are struggling to be victorious....This is where and what Grace comes in, as we conquer over one part, then we can go on and work in another area. The key word you used that I liked was deliberately, often times we have become slaves to sin....and by Grace we are givin time and Love by the Lord to overcome....the key is are we trying and struggling against sin seeking Christ for victory....or are we enjoying sin and have no desire to have victory and believe in fact it is ok to sin, and to sin away for we are saved.....and this is the doctrine of once saved always saved which I agree with you, is a delusion.
I believe the Hebrews scripture is talking to those who have found the truth of Christ, accepted it, but have totally turned their back on Christ and walked away from the faith.....there is no other place to go to find salvation, the deliberate sin there is no longer having faith in him.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

In these parts among the "Pentecostal extremists" it's a SIN for a woman to speak to visitors in her house if her husband is home, until he gives her permission to do so.

"Holiness" folks wear their religion so TIGHT, you wonder how they breathe at all.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

In these parts among the "Pentecostal extremists" it's a SIN for a woman to speak to visitors in her house if her husband is home, until he gives her permission to do so.

"Holiness" folks wear their religion so TIGHT, you wonder how they breathe at all.

I was hating the snow, cold and hating Wisconsin. Maybe the Midwest ain't so bad. Cheese heads keep one's head warm.

That is really bad. Are those women happy do you think?

 

[Purge187]

In these parts among the "Pentecostal extremists" it's a SIN for a woman to speak to visitors in her house if her husband is home, until he gives her permission to do so.

"Holiness" folks wear their religion so TIGHT, you wonder how they breathe at all.

The more legalism, the less joy.

I was saved almost 16 years ago and I'm just now turning that corner.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

The more legalism, the less joy.

I was saved almost 16 years ago and I'm just now turning that corner.

Good for you! Stay on the right track. Better late than never.

Praise God you've been delivered from that. More joy. Yes!

 

[OGM]

In these parts among the "Pentecostal extremists" it's a SIN for a woman to speak to visitors in her house if her husband is home, until he gives her permission to do so. "Holiness" folks wear their religion so TIGHT, you wonder how they breathe at all.

That's crazy...and rude! Sounds like a cult. Treating an adult woman as if she was a toddler.

 

[OGM]

So to answer the OP. Extremists and legalists are hated. They could be Muslim, Jewish, Christian or whatever. People can't stand them...I can't stand them. They are extremely difficult to be around because they are always trying to put people down. Religious extremist can be the worst because they think they have God on their side. Think suicide bombers.

 

[OGM]

For His sheep doing what ever it is written is enough.

?

 

[ToBeBlessed]

So to answer the OP. Extremists and legalists are hated. They could be Muslim, Jewish, Christian or whatever. People can't stand them...I can't stand them. They are extremely difficult to be around because they are always trying to put people down. Religious extremist can be the worst because they think they have God on their side. Think suicide bombers.

I would change part of one sentence.

FROM
They are extremely difficult to be around because they are always trying to put people down.

TO
They are extremely difficult to be around because they judge and condemn others according to their legalistic view, which in Christianity is not biblical.

If.. If... their view was biblical I wouldn't challenge it.