Holidays

[EastCoastRemnant]

I still don't see in your post any evidence of a yearly marking of Christs birth or of our duty to observe it.

I would assume that your celebration involves a decorated tree and other such rituals as well?

 

[OntheDL]

Actually, she wrote that it was ok to have it in the church as well. Sister White encouraged the practice of putting up a tree, even at the church, to be used to gather donations by pinning them onto the branches.

While I do believe that Ellen White fulfilled all the requirements of being a true prophet and that her writings were divinely directed, I do not believe that she was given all the light the church would receive. The above quoted passage from Adventist Home shows that she was not given light in at least two areas having to do with this time of year, one being the egregious use of the term 'christmas' and the satanic meaning of the word.

Also, the decorating of the tree is in direct contradiction to this passage in Jeremiah

Sabbath blessings!

I find those statements to be a bit precarious.
[FONT=&quot]
“God is either teaching His church, reproving their wrongs and strengthening their faith, or He is not. This work is of God, or it is not. God does nothing in partnership with Satan. My work bears the stamp of God or the stamp of the enemy. There is no halfway work in the matter.”—5 Testimonies, 671.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]“If you lose confidence in the Testimonies you will drift away from Bible truth[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. I have been fearful that many would take a questioning, doubting position, and in my distress for your souls I would warn you. How many will heed the warning? As you now hold the Testimonies, should one be given crossing your track, correcting your errors, would you feel at perfect liberty to accept or reject any part or the whole? That which you will be least inclined to receive is the very part most needed.”—5 Testimonies, 98.[/FONT]

Ellen White took away the liberty of picking and choosing what's inspired and what's not from her testimonies. You believe she was a prophet, but on the other hand you essentially placed your own understanding above the inspired testimony.

I was more critical of the whole Christmas thing. But our understanding needs to be bound by the inspiration and need not to scrutinize things more critically than Jesus would.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

I still don't see in your post any evidence of a yearly marking of Christs birth or of our duty to observe it.

Should our activities be limited to solely those things expressly permitted in Scripture?

Is the participation in an online discussion forum expressly permitted in Scripture?

I would assume that your celebration involves a decorated tree and other such rituals as well?

Can you share with us why you would be interested in the traditions established in other families and homes? Why would you care one way or another?

BFA

 

[zeker33:9]

Sorry, hadn't read all the above recounting of the advent and realized that you had already stated some of what I did....

No problem, the story I posted is a paraphrased account of the biblical account of the birth of Jesus. That is the reason for the season. It has nothing to to with a man in a red suit that comes down a chimney to deliver presents. As a Christian I (speaking for myself), celebrate the birth of my Lord and Savior, because without Him, I have nothing to look forward to. Nothing a man in a red suit could bring, would be worth as much as He is.

For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. (Matthew 6:21)

 

[zeker33:9]

I still don't see in your post any evidence of a yearly marking of Christs birth or of our duty to observe it.

Is there a yearly marking of the day of your birth? There is nothing that I have found in Scripture that says we can't.

I would assume that your celebration involves a decorated tree and other such rituals as well?

You know what happens when you assume something.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

You know what happens when you assume something.

Touche..

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Should our activities be limited to solely those things expressly permitted in Scripture?

When that activity involves the name of Jesus, then I believe we need to be very careful.

Some people have said to me that I tend to see a devil behind every bush... well, I may not always see one but I try and look wherever I can.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Is the participation in an online discussion forum expressly permitted in Scripture?

1 Cor 14:26
How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Can you share with us why you would be interested in the traditions established in other families and homes? Why would you care one way or another?

Heb 10:23-25
Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised)
And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

When that activity involves the name of Jesus, then I believe we need to be very careful.

That's a fair statement. However, in my mind there is a difference between exercising caution and establishing a prohibition. For example, I might exercise caution in establishing 13th sabbath traditions in the name of being careful. However, I probably wouldn't prohibit all 13th sabbath traditions simply because they aren't expressly permitted in Scripture. I find Romans 14 to be persuasive.

Some people have said to me that I tend to see a devil behind every bush... well, I may not always see one but I try and look wherever I can.

Is it possible that a person only finds what he's looking to find?

BFA

 

[Princessdi]

I was going to post but as I read on I find that Zeke33:9 and BFA doing a wonderful job.

I just have one comment/question. ECR, your response still doesn't answer BFA'a question about your being concerned about what is happening in somebody else's home.


Ok so I have a couple more questions..........How long have you been SDA? And why come(yes, why come) you have been SDA for a seemingly short period(forgive me if I am wrong) of time and can make judgements on the "light" given by God of hte "resident" Prophet/Prophetess?

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Is it possible that a person only finds what he's looking to find?

BFA

The scripture has told us to be wary of the many, varied, cunning deceptions by satan, that he wanders about like a lion looking to devour. So, knowing there is that ever present danger, I will take all things to God in prayer, asking for discernment and understanding and not just accept the traditions of men as safe. This is where I have been led and until the Spirit leads me to a different understanding, then here is where I'll stay.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

I was going to post but as I read on I find that Zeke33:9 and BFA doing a wonderful job.

I just have one comment/question. ECR, your response still doesn't answer BFA'a question about your being concerned about what is happening in somebody else's home.


Ok so I have a couple more questions..........How long have you been SDA? And why come(yes, why come) you have been SDA for a seemingly short period(forgive me if I am wrong) of time and can make judgements on the "light" given by God of hte "resident" Prophet/Prophetess?

Concerning the question of why I care enough to come on here and post what I do, I gave the answer in a previous post but will give you the scripture to look up... Heb 10:23-25. It is what we are to do for one another. If I seen your house on fire, would I not come and tell you so...

I have been SDA for 5 years now... I don't really see what that has to do with anything, unless you are going to try and say I am still a babe and am still on the milk of the Word.

What do you make of this scripture?

Acts 2:17
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Could you recognize a true prophet? Do you know what the Bilbe says we are to test them by?

Btw, this scripture, while still possible for our day, had a fulfillment with William Foy, Hazen Foss and Ellen White (your sons and daughter shall prophesy and your young men shall see visions) and William Miller (your old men shall dream dreams)

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

I posted a question for those that celebrate the holidays but I see no one has answered, so I'll ask it again incase you all missed it...

If your denominations elders/hierarchy or a collective of many of the worlds church's claimed that, based on new archeological evidence, Oct. 31st was the day of Jesus' baptism and needed to be commemorated, would you do so?

 

[k4c]

I posted a question for those that celebrate the holidays but I see no one has answered, so I'll ask it again incase you all missed it...

If your denominations elders/hierarchy or a collective of many of the worlds church's claimed that, based on new archeological evidence, Oct. 31st was the day of Jesus' baptism and needed to be commemorated, would you do so?

What does a day mean to you is what the real issue is.

If you celebrate December 25th to remember the birth of Jesus, whether He was born on that day or not, then that's what the day means to you. If you celebrate December 25th as day to worship a sun god then that's what the day means to you.

If you desire to esteem December 25th as a day to remember Jesus' birth that's between you and God.

Romans 14:4-6 Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it.

Whatever a day means to you will determine why you celebrate it. This is where God judges.

1 John 3:20-21 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God.

Now lets take this one step further. What day do you gather with God's people to worship Him? I would have to say you worship God on the Sabbath, which is Saturday, the seventh day.

But I say you are worshipping creation, rather than the Creator. Why do I say this? Because Saturday may not be the day of the sun but it is the day of Saturn.

Saturday was named no later than the second century for the planet Saturn, which controlled the first hour of that day according to Vettius Valens. Its Latin name dies Saturni ("Saturn's Day") entered into Old English as Sæternesdæg.

Now you might say you are not worhiping Saturn but who is to say you are not? Your heart before God is what says you are not worhipping Saturn. In the same way, those who celebrate Jesus' birth on December 25th are not worhipping the sun god, but rather, they are rememering Jesus' birth.

Now I understand how the Bible does not command us to remember birth days but I also don't find a command to drive cars or fly in planes. So does that me we are siding with pagans when we drive a car or fly in a plane?

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

To your question of Sabbath being a day of worship to saturn as opposed to Sunday being a day to worship the sun, there is a huge difference. One is commanded by God and one is commanded by man.

When you say to people Merry Christmas, does it matter to you what that term means and it's origin or to you it is the spirit in which it's said? Remember, there are things which seem right to man that are abomination to God.

I assume, by you answer, that you would celebrate Christ's baptism on Oct 31st.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

The scripture has told us to be wary of the many, varied, cunning deceptions by satan, that he wanders about like a lion looking to devour. So, knowing there is that ever present danger, I will take all things to God in prayer, asking for discernment and understanding and not just accept the traditions of men as safe. This is where I have been led and until the Spirit leads me to a different understanding, then here is where I'll stay.

Fair enough. I'm not here to try and change that.

BFA

 

[Byfaithalone1]

I posted a question for those that celebrate the holidays but I see no one has answered, so I'll ask it again incase you all missed it...

If your denominations elders/hierarchy or a collective of many of the worlds church's claimed that, based on new archeological evidence, Oct. 31st was the day of Jesus' baptism and needed to be commemorated, would you do so?

In answer to your question, I would not immediately assume that such a practice is sinful. Rather, I would examine the idea carefully and prayerfully consider whether it adds any value to my life. There are many traditions supported by denominations that I do not personally observe. When I make a decision not to follow a tradition, I don't condemn those who do.

All denominations (including SDAism) have adopted traditions that aren't commanded by God in the Bible. That doesn't necessarily make these traditions evil. Each of us should feel empowered to evaluate our traditions on a case-by-case basis. We should be careful not to impose our traditions on others, or judge the traditions of others.

BFA

 

[k4c]

To your question of Sabbath being a day of worship to saturn as opposed to Sunday being a day to worship the sun, there is a huge difference. One is commanded by God and one is commanded by man.

When you say to people Merry Christmas, does it matter to you what that term means and it's origin or to you it is the spirit in which it's said? Remember, there are things which seem right to man that are abomination to God.

I assume, by you answer, that you would celebrate Christ's baptism on Oct 31st.

How do I know you're not worshiping Saturn on Saturday?

The meaning of "Merry Christmas."​

When a person wishes you "Merry Christmas" they are implying several things. First, the "Merry" part is a wish that you will find the season, more specifically the occasion, as cheerful, hopeful and joyous. Agreeable or pleasant are applicable too, with joyful probably being the single closest definition.

The occasion to be joyful about is Christmas. The word Christmas is derived from "Christ's Mass" which has its roots in the Middle English "Christemasse" and the Old English "Cristes mæsse,"

Christ, of course, refers to Jesus Christ. The "mass" in this case comes from the English meaning and tradition of a religious feast in honor of a specific person. Christmas Day is the feast day of Christ. Christmas also means the larger season around Christmas Day or the 12 days of Christmastide.​

Christmas day, December 25th, is the celebration of Jesus' birth. This date was the pagan birthdate of Mithra the pagan Roman God, Tammuz the pagan Babylonian God and Nimrod the Babylonian King. The celebration date is not necessarily the actual date of Christ's birth.

If you are Catholic "Merry Christmas" therefore, is a wish that you will find joy in the event of Christ's birth. The announcement of the Angel to the Shepherds in the Gospel of Luke clarifies the sentiment behind "Merry Christmas": "…the angel said to the Jews, "Do not be afraid. I bring you good news of great joy that will be for all the people. Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is Messiah the Master."​

References:

Christmas | Define Christmas at Dictionary.com

Mass | Define Mass at Dictionary.com​

Luke 2 - Passage[bless and do not curse]Lookup - New International Version, ©2010 - BibleGateway.com

Read more: Answers.com - What does Merry Christmas mean

​

The word "Merry" is simple to define. It unquestionably means to be happy, joyful and light-hearted. The word "merry" fits into the ambiance of laughter and frivolity. The World Book Encyclopedia defines "Christmas" as follows: "The word Christmas comes from "Cristes Maesse", an early English phrase that means "Mass of Christ." (1)​

The word "Mass" in religious usage means a "death sacrifice." ​

Read more: Answers.com - What does Merry Christmas mean​

I'm not happy that Jesus died but I'm happy that He died for me. When you say, "Happy Sabbath" are you happy that Jesus was in the grave on the Sabbath?

It's all about what you want to make these things out to be.

Is there a celebration of Jesus' baptism? That's news to me.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Well, my intentions are not to judge but to enlighten and to warn of possible danger to the believer.

The way I look at it for myself, I figure God won't care one way or another if I don't celebrate a worldly custom. But there is a chance, however small, that He may care and not like it. My eternal salvation is too precious for me to take that chance... I look at Sabbath the same way, although I do understand the significance of the sanctity of that day. If, however, you esteem any day to be worthy of worship, why not make it Sabbath. That way you have your bets covered, so to speak..