Holidays

[k4c]

Well, it seems we are at a stalemate of sorts....

The problem is that people can't make other people refer a day to something sinful if they refuse to think of it as a sinful day. I can't make you think or believe you are worshiping Saturn because you honor Saturday as the Sabbath when that's not the reason why you honor Satuday, no matter what Saturday means to other people.

This goes for Sunday as well. If I choose to have a bible study on Sunday it does not mean I am siding with the beast, no matter what other people might think. Every day belongs to the Lord so let's give Him the glory and let the pagans do what they want with any particular day. What if the homosexual movement decided to claim Saturday as their day to honor their sinful lifestyle, would that make you change your view of the Sabbath, God's holy day?

Halloween is also a very pagan and evil time so does that mean we shouldn't have a celebration of some kind to exalt Jesus and have fellowship with His people on that day? Doing this will not only give our children and neighborhood kids something to do that is fun and godly, it will also give opportunity for outreach. Overcome evil with good...

 

[zeker33:9]

The problem is that people can't make other people refer a day to something sinful if they refuse to think of it as a sinful day. I can't make you think or believe you are worshiping Saturn because you honor Saturday as the Sabbath when that's not the reason why you honor Satuday, no matter what Saturday means to other people.

This goes for Sunday as well. If I choose to have a bible study on Sunday it does not mean I am siding with the beast, no matter what other people might think. Every day belongs to the Lord so let's give Him the glory and let the pagans do what they want with any particular day. What if the homosexual movement decided to claim Saturday as their day to honor their sinful lifestyle, would that make you change your view of the Sabbath, God's holy day?

Halloween is also a very pagan and evil time so does that mean we shouldn't have a celebration of some kind to exalt Jesus and have fellowship with His people on that day? Doing this will not only give our children and neighborhood kids something to do that is fun and godly, it will also give opportunity for outreach. Overcome evil with good...

Amen! good post!

 

[Byfaithalone1]

While I don't think the celebration of Christ's birth needs to be done on a particular day (think doing it throughout the year with singing of advent songs, thats what we do), doing it on any other day thats not tied to a pagan festivity would show the focus of your worship better.

Just read through the recent exchange. Good dialogue!!

I just have one more question. My daughter was born on October 31. Should we celebrate her birth on a different day?

BFA

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Is your daughter the Christ?

What does your daughter birthday have to do with mixing the Holy with the profane?

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Is your daughter the Christ?

What does your daughter birthday have to do with mixing the Holy with the profane?

Just trying to get a better understanding of the guidelines relating to the celebration of birthdays. I personally do not view Christmas as a "holy day."

BFA

 

[k4c]

Just trying to get a better understand the guidelines relating to the celebration of birthdays. I personally do not view Christmas as a "holy day."

BFA

There is no problem with celebrating a birthday and Christmas is not a holy day. December 25th is just another day that we just so happen to celebrate Jesus' birth day because of pagan influences.

If your daughter was born on October 31st then celebrate her birth day on October 31st.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

There is no problem with celebrating a birthday and Christmas is not a holy day. December 25th is just another day that we just so happen to celebrate Jesus' birth day because of pagan influences.

If your daughter was born on October 31st then celebrate her birth day on October 31st.

Thanks, K4C. I agree.

BTW -- I've agreed with and appreciated many of your posts in this thread. It's nice to have an opportunity to interact with you in a different setting.

Merry Christmas!

BFA

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

... we just so happen to celebrate Jesus' birth day because of pagan influences.

I hope this wasn't a freudian slip...

You just don't 'happen' to do it, it's a Catholic tradition. If Christians 'just happened' to celebrate His birthday, then it would be done throughout the year on different days by different people.

I think people are afraid of what others might think if they were the ONLY one not doing it in their community. It's always easier to go with popular opinion than go against the grain and remain firm in your convictions. It's no wonder when the great test is brought upon us that not many will be able to stand...

 

[k4c]

I hope this wasn't a freudian slip...

You just don't 'happen' to do it, it's a Catholic tradition. If Christians 'just happened' to celebrate His birthday, then it would be done throughout the year on different days by different people.

I think people are afraid of what others might think if they were the ONLY one not doing it in their community. It's always easier to go with popular opinion than go against the grain and remain firm in your convictions. It's no wonder when the great test is brought upon us that not many will be able to stand...

The only day that God is concerned about is His sabbath.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

I hope this wasn't a freudian slip...

You just don't 'happen' to do it, it's a Catholic tradition. If Christians 'just happened' to celebrate His birthday, then it would be done throughout the year on different days by different people.

I think people are afraid of what others might think if they were the ONLY one not doing it in their community. It's always easier to go with popular opinion than go against the grain and remain firm in your convictions. It's no wonder when the great test is brought upon us that not many will be able to stand...

ECR . . . I support your decision not to celebrate Christmas. I would never ask you to change your convictions on that point. Christmas is not a holy day and is by no means required. However, I would ask that you avoid judging those of us who celebrate it.

Separately, I also support your decision to worship God on the seventh day. Although I also worship God on the seventh day, I understand that our specific seventh-day behavior may differ. I am glad that your seventh-day observances are a blessing for you and I would not wish to rob you of that blessing. I wonder whether you might allow me the latitude to follow my own convictions on this subject without any condemnation?

BFA

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

If your house was on fire, should I not try and warn you? Or should I just assume that you are cold and have a different way of heating your house than I do? If I love you, as Christ has told us to do, then I will warn you irregardless of the cost.

If this sounds elitist or judgemental, I believe in the present truth message as taught by the early SDA church, and if this offends you in some way, then I'm sorry you cannot see any light in it.

 

[k4c]

If your house was on fire, should I not try and warn you? Or should I just assume that you are cold and have a different way of heating your house than I do? If I love you, as Christ has told us to do, then I will warn you irregardless of the cost.

If this sounds elitist or judgemental, I believe in the present truth message as taught by the early SDA church, and if this offends you in some way, then I'm sorry you cannot see any light in it.

Romans 14:14 I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

A day is not unclean just because pagan man says the day means something such as Christmas. No matter what day of the week you pick I'm sure there is something about that day that pagan man has made special including the Sabbath. This year Christmas falls on the Sabbath so does that make the Sabbath an unclean day now?

We should warn people to turn to Christ and let Jesus, working through the Holy Spirit, convict of sin (the things we do wrong) and righteousness (the things we do right). The Ten Commandments are not up for debate but there are a lot of gray areas when it comes to conscience obedience i.e. things not specifically stated or spelled out as sinful by Jesus in His word such as celebrating birthdays.

Let us not call something sin, when in fact Jesus did not, because sin, whether real or preceived will still harden the heart.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

I've never said celebrating Christmas was a sin... I think that mixing the Holy (Christ birth) with the profane (everything else about the day) is dangerous. This Sabbath will be like any other Sabbath for me because I am not thinking on worldly things (Christmas).

Also, just for the record, I do celebrate Christ birth... throughout the year, when ever it comes to my mind of the beautiful gift from God that this plan of redemption was for us. We sing advent songs and give thanx for Christ's whole earthly ministry, including His birth. But, His birth was not the crux of His message or ministry and to focus on the helpless babe to me is no better than how the crucifix focuses on our Lord dead on the cross. Neither glorifies Him as our risen redeemer but rather sends subtle messages of weakness upon our Lord.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

If your house was on fire, should I not try and warn you?

To my knowledge, my house isn't on fire. If you believe it is, please tell me more.

BFA

 

[Princessdi]

Aaaaahhhh ! It all makes sense now. Thank you for answering my question.

Secondly, I never said what I thought about EGW, just was curious about your views, as she is an intergral part of Adventism. It seemed from your statements that you were reinventing the wheel without knowing how the wheel actuallyworked to begin with....always a mistake.

Concerning the question of why I care enough to come on here and post what I do, I gave the answer in a previous post but will give you the scripture to look up... Heb 10:23-25. It is what we are to do for one another. If I seen your house on fire, would I not come and tell you so...

I have been SDA for 5 years now... I don't really see what that has to do with anything, unless you are going to try and say I am still a babe and am still on the milk of the Word.

What do you make of this scripture?

Acts 2:17
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Could you recognize a true prophet? Do you know what the Bilbe says we are to test them by?

Btw, this scripture, while still possible for our day, had a fulfillment with William Foy, Hazen Foss and Ellen White (your sons and daughter shall prophesy and your young men shall see visions) and William Miller (your old men shall dream dreams)

 

[Princessdi]

Well, everyone I have enjoyed reading this thread thoroughly. BFA, K4c, Zeker33, excellent posts.

ECR, keep on the line of reasoning you are using regarding th b-days of your wife and hild, and you will continue on the right track. I also believe those "fires' you se everywhere everywhere will dimiiinish. God bless you as you strive to find God's will for your life.

 

[k4c]

EastCoastRemnant;I've never said celebrating Christmas was a sin... I think that mixing the Holy (Christ birth) with the profane (everything else about the day) is dangerous. This Sabbath will be like any other Sabbath for me because I am not thinking on worldly things (Christmas).

Not thinking on worldy things on the Sabbath is open to personal interpretation and can lead to legalism and bondage because your standard of wordly thoughts might different than others. To not think about anything pertaining to this life on the Sabbath is impossible. Thinking about things pertaining to this life on the Sabbath is not a sin in itself. All God wants us to do is keep the day special, gather as a family, hear His word and fellowship as a people of God. God protected the Sabbath time by law for His people to enjoy so it wouldn't be hindered by pagan employers.

Also, just for the record, I do celebrate Christ birth... throughout the year, when ever it comes to my mind of the beautiful gift from God that this plan of redemption was for us. We sing advent songs and give thanx for Christ's whole earthly ministry, including His birth. But, His birth was not the crux of His message or ministry and to focus on the helpless babe to me is no better than how the crucifix focuses on our Lord dead on the cross. Neither glorifies Him as our risen redeemer but rather sends subtle messages of weakness upon our Lord.

You celebrate Jesus' birthday throughout the year exept for December 25th? Now don't get me wrong, I don't agree with all the commercialism and going into debt as the standard for celebrating Jesus' birthday but to say it's a sin or wrong to celebrate Jesus' birthday on December 25th makes me think that Satan has more control over keeping Jesus out of certain days than God has at putting Jesus in everyday. How many days would paganism have to claim as their own before it would be a sin or wrong to celebrate Jesus everyday throughout the year?

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

My answer of not thinking on worldly things on Sabbath was in reference to this Sabbath being the 25th. I have yet to meet a person, that claims to only celebrate Christs birth on the 25th, not be influenced/participate in other Christmas celebrations. Not saying there aren't, I've just never met any in 43 years.

Also, my statement of celebrating His birth throughout the year did not imply that I set aside days for doing so. Esteeming one day above another is something we are not to do... it does not refer to what God has 'esteemed' for us eg: Sabbath, washing of feet and the rememberence meal.

 

[Princessdi]

I have got to agree with k4c on this one. In actuality, paganism can claim everyday as the names are pagan, or were orginal named by pagans after their gods, and we have never changed them. For some reason, once satan claims something, we are much to willing to allow him to keep it by not acknowledging that all is God's to begin with........apply this to music, style of worship, the earth, etc. He is lying, he knows it, but we believe him anyway......go figure.


My question would also if ECR goes out of his way not to think of Christ during the holiday season? I don't believe that there are any christians who don't often think of Christ and His ultimate Gift to the world as we read, study, pray, attend services throught the year. So, really saying that you do that should not be implying that you are doing something special. In fact, it looks as if those who celebrate/observe Christmas take an extra step in actually taking an even more special and extended time out to remember.


I can't answer for those who go into debt or straight commercialism during the holidays, I can only answer for me. I love giving gifts(even if I don't get anything) because it reminds of God's Gift to us. So in that Spirit I give also. Then I believe it warrants special importance to acknowledge that the King of the Universe and all things humbled Himself to come down to earth as a baby to suffer and die for us.........."while we were yet in our sins." How amazing is that?!! I don't care what satan claimed the purpose of the day to be after God created it, that has nothing to do with me. It is the enemy's job to steal, kill, and destroy. He is just doing his job.....stealing from God. As k4c says believing his lie is giving more power to satan to take what is God's, at least in our minds. I an not giving the enemy that much power.....ever.

You celebrate Jesus' birthday throughout the year exept for December 25th? Now don't get me wrong, I don't agree with all the commercialism and going into debt as the standard for celebrating Jesus' birthday but to say it's a sin or wrong to celebrate Jesus' birthday on December 25th makes me think that Satan has more control over keeping Jesus out of certain days than God has at putting Jesus in everyday. How many days would paganism have to claim as their own before it would be a sin or wrong to celebrate Jesus everyday throughout the year?

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

My question would also if ECR goes out of his way not to think of Christ during the holiday season? I don't believe that there are any christians who don't often think of Christ and His ultimate Gift to the world as we read, study, pray, attend services throught the year. So, really saying that you do that should not be implying that you are doing something special. In fact, it looks as if those who celebrate/observe Christmas take an extra step in actually taking an even more special and extended time out to remember.


I can't answer for those who go into debt or straight commercialism during the holidays, I can only answer for me. I love giving gifts(even if I don't get anything) because it reminds of God's Gift to us. So in that Spirit I give also. Then I believe it warrants special importance to acknowledge that the King of the Universe and all things humbled Himself to come down to earth as a baby to suffer and die for us.........."while we were yet in our sins." How amazing is that?!! I don't care what satan claimed the purpose of the day to be after God created it, that has nothing to do with me. It is the enemy's job to steal, kill, and destroy. He is just doing his job.....stealing from God. As k4c says believing his lie is giving more power to satan to take what is God's, at least in our minds. I an not giving the enemy that much power.....ever.

I think about and talk to Jesus every single day... to me that is defeating whatever satan can do to distract me from my worship and relationship with Him.

Most people pay God lip service with their worship because they don't have the type of personal relationship that He wants. They play church and celebrate Christmas and easter but their heart is far from Him. This applies to the vast majority of professed Christians both in Adventism and without.

God doesn't want your worship to be once a week and a couple of times a year... everyday of the year could be a pagan celebration and it wouldn't affect my relationship with Jesus. We are to be in the world and not of it... to me being of the world is doing what the world does, celebrating what the world celebrates and believing what the world believes and this time of the year that would be Christmas.