Hitler

[Armoured]

I don't mean that he was saved. Only that he was baptized and confirmed Catholic and, from a theological standpoint, those cannot be undone.

Hitler was most definitely a Christian, by any meaningful definition. It endlessly bemuses me how much people will tie themselves in knots trying to suggest otherwise.

Of course, just because he was unarguably a Christian doesn't mean he was a particularly good or observant Christian.

 

[Sumwear]

Hitler was most definitely a Christian, by any meaningful definition. It endlessly bemuses me how much people will tie themselves in knots trying to suggest otherwise.

so noted scholars in this field also bemuse you? for every quote you can provide of his christian faith, there's another showing his disdain for christianity. for his infatuation of a higher power, to disdain over religion in general. add in certain pagan and occult practices, and to say in fact that hitler was christian is a bit shortsighted. opportunistic is what I would call him. much like mussolini, and mussolini had done a lot more for the catholic church than hitler. yet people have no problem calling mussolini an atheist.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Many leaders have tried to win over ppl by being 'nice' to Catholic Popes... but once in office - they hold disdain openly or secretly.
Its no secret Catholicism is the largest Christian faith. Its no secret that it used to be beneficial to align oneself to the church to appease the majority.
Tho today this isnt a necessary consideration since ppl pay very little attention to the Pope or church.

That said, anyone can claim to be Christian - but the Lord has the last say on anyone's judgment good or bad.
Some will say 'Lord, Lord...'
And some will be contrite in the end so we cannot ascertain who is saved once they pass.

For all intents and purposes - Hitler didnt show an ounce of compassion to neither Jew nor Catholic and 70,000 various other faithfuls of other churches - sects.

He was consistent - death to anyone in his way.

 

[Berean777]

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[HonestTruth]

sadly, Catholic churches and hierarchy cooperated with the Nazis:


http://tinyurl.com/pwofhtj

 

[Berean777]

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[Berean777]

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[Berean777]

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[Sumwear]

sadly, Catholic churches and hierarchy cooperated with the Nazis:


http://tinyurl.com/pwofhtj

before nazism rose in power, german bishops excommunicated various nazis and banned catholics from joining the nazi party. it's when the nazis began using force and claimed almost all power that catholic leadership became weary and by essence powerless. even when the holy see thought they would not have nazis pressuring them, pope pius still came out with an encyclical. mit brennender sorgehad. pretty much smacking everything nazism stood for, condemning hitler's bullying tactics, reminding the laity and clergy where their priorities should lie. things from there only got worse for the catholic clergy in germany. sure, you still had those who had no qualms with what the state was doing, but you also had various catholic dissenters in germany, and they suffered. even catholics trying to do all they could to appease the nazis still felt some scorn by either being arressted on trumped up charges, having buildings and property confiscated, or just being assassinated.

 

[Berean777]

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[thecolorsblend]

so noted scholars in this field also bemuse you? for every quote you can provide of his christian faith, there's another showing his disdain for christianity. for his infatuation of a higher power, to disdain over religion in general. add in certain pagan and occult practices, and to say in fact that hitler was christian is a bit shortsighted.

Actions speak louder than words. When his forces had the chance, they reopened churches during the invasion of Russia. While doing so, they closed down every lodge and chase out of town every Mason they could find. All this without condition, without being asked to do so and without strings attached. If his regime was as anti-Christian as Christians want us to believe, they sure had a funny way of showing it. So if it's all the same to you, I think I'll trust his actions over someone's attempt to cash in with an unsourced, unverifiable tell-all book, thanks.

Nobody's disputing that people involved with the occult weren't members of the party. Or at least I'm not. But (A) that party was the only legal one in Germany at that time and (B) Germany had per capita as many occultists as (if not fewer than) those found in the UK and the US in those days. Certainly fewer per capita than can be found in those places today.

 

[Sumwear]

Actions speak louder than words. When his forces had the chance, they reopened churches during the invasion of Russia. While doing so, they closed down every lodge and chase out of town every Mason they could find. All this without condition, without being asked to do so and without strings attached. If his regime was as anti-Christian as Christians want us to believe, they sure had a funny way of showing it. So if it's all the same to you, I think I'll trust his actions over someone's attempt to cash in with an unsourced, unverifiable tell-all book, thanks.

it's not a tell all book. if hitler were a good catholic, then he wouldn't suppress and pressure catholics the way he did. and if he were a good christian in general, then he wouldn't have allowed goebbels to construct such propaganda against both christianity and catholicism for that matter. nazis reopening churches in russia and other soviet occupied lands also served another purpose. both lenin and stalin tried to eradicate the religious [in this case the orthodox] as best as they could. by opening churches, they were trying to get that local populace on their sides. not a coincidence stalin greatly softened his stance towards russian orthodoxy after operation barborossa.

Nobody's disputing that people involved with the occult weren't members of the party. Or at least I'm not. But (A) that party was the only legal one in Germany at that time and (B) Germany had per capita as many occultists as (if not fewer than) those found in the UK and the US in those days. Certainly fewer per capita than can be found in those places today.

except I'm not talking about people within the nazi party. I'm talking about hitler himself who has made comments on his personal religious, spiritual beliefs in various degrees. when taken in totality, you can't say in definitive terms that, yeah, he was a christian. again, going back to my mention of mussolini. he did a lot more to be in favor with catholcism and catholics alike. yet, no one is proclaiming mussolini as catholic.

 

[thecolorsblend]

it's not a tell all book. if hitler were a good catholic, then he wouldn't suppress and pressure catholics the way he did. and if he were a good christian in general, then he wouldn't have allowed goebbels to construct such propaganda against both christianity and catholicism for that matter. nazis reopening churches in russia and other soviet occupied lands also served another purpose. both lenin and stalin tried to eradicate the religious [in this case the orthodox] as best as they could. by opening churches, they were trying to get that local populace on their sides. not a coincidence stalin greatly softened his stance towards russian orthodoxy after operation barborossa.

That was completely unnecessary. Trust me, they had the locals on their side just by showing up and shooting the Soviets. From their standpoint, the Germans were freeing them from communism. That wasn't necessarily the Germans' objective but that was nevertheless the outcome. On top of all that, many in the army wore this belt buckle:

It says literally "God with us". This was part of their uniform... which, again, is a strange thing to have as your uniform if you're openly hostile Christianity in such a strongly Christian country like Germany was back in those days. I'm not arguing that they were saints but their religious views deserve a bit more texture and nuance than is being given here.

 

[Sumwear]

That was completely unnecessary. Trust me, they had the locals on their side just by showing up and shooting the Soviets. From their standpoint, the Germans were freeing them from communism. That wasn't necessarily the Germans' objective but that was nevertheless the outcome.

perhaps. or they wanted the people's trust in more ways than one. because while the nazis were viewed as liberators, they also brought their own horrorshow with them. by which I mean allowing neighbors to slaughter neighbors.

On top of all that, many in the army wore this belt buckle:

It says literally "God with us".

okay?

This was part of their uniform... which, again, is a strange thing to have as your uniform if you're openly hostile Christianity in such a strongly Christian country like Germany was back in those days.

I'm not arguing that they were saints but their religious views deserve a bit more texture and nuance than is being given here.

believing in god doesn't have to equate to a christian god. goebbels and others made numerous remarks about norse and germanic gods. one can be a deist and still believe in both God and paradise.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

The "God" of the Nazis was a national god, so it was not the same as the Christian God.

The Pope condemned that about the Nazis in his encyclical.

"None but superficial minds could stumble into concepts of a national God, of a national religion; or attempt to lock within the frontiers of a single people, within the narrow limits of a single race, God, the Creator of the universe, King and Legislator of all nations before whose immensity they are 'as a drop of a bucket' (Isaiah xI, 15)." - Pope Pius XI, Mit Brennender Sorge
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[ebia]

America is allegedly 80% Christian... however; that doesnt mean ppl vote according to Christian principles. Or at least not the Traditional principles of history and Catholicism..

Indeed, we established before that most OBOB posters would not vote for a party that espoused the policies of the USCCB.

 

[ebia]

Hitler was most definitely a Christian, by any meaningful definition.

But how did he flavour his breakfast oats?

 

[Berean777]

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[MikeK]

Hitler and Stalin both courted Christians when it was beneficial to them, they saw Christians as useful idiots and played them like pianos, hoping that a token measure would distract them into supporting their evils. Putin is using the same playbook in Russia today. Appealing to religious belief to shore up nationalist sentiment is an old trick.

That said, the argument of whether Hitler was a Christian or not has nothing to do with whether he was a good Christian. He was Baptized Catholic which made him Catholic. He had some apparent belief in Christ on some ocasions, sonInthink it's fair to call him a Christian. He was also an atheist and a pagan occultist. Lest we forget, he was also very likely mentally ill and suffering from Syphilis, so understanding exactly what was going on in his head may not even be fully possible.

 

[HonestTruth]

Hitler and Stalin both courted Christians when it was beneficial to them, they saw Christians as useful idiots and played them like pianos, hoping that a token measure would distract them into supporting their evils. Putin is using the same playbook in Russia today. Appealing to religious belief to shore up nationalist sentiment is an old trick.

Yep. Just like the self proclaimed Moral {sic} Majority did in the USA.