The Liturgist

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I had intended to post this in reply to an erroneous comment posted on a CF.com member blog, which asserted inaccurately that both Ukraine and Russia were once ruled by the Roman Empire.

This idea, while it would be convenient for people seeking to interpret prophecies about the end times, is entirely inaccurate, as neither Rome nor Constantinople ruled over any part of modern day Russia or Ukraine (however, portions of Armenia and Azerbaijan, which were part of the USSR, were at times under direct or indirect Roman and Byzantine control, being on the frontiers, and after the fall of Constantinople, the Greek Orthodox Christians retained control of Trebizond, a strip in Eastern Asia Minor bordering Armenia and the Black Sea, for a few more decades). That said, the Romans and later the Byzantine Empire were aware of the area and traded with it; it was populated by the Scythians, a formidable warrior culture, and Tatars, Bulgarians, Magyars, and Slavs. Now, the tribe known as Kievan Rus, who the Russians and Ukrainians are largely descended from, which was of Slavic and Scandinavian (predominantly Swedish) ethnicity (for example, St. Vladimir the Great’s mother St. Anna of Novograd was Swedish ethnically) were converted to Christianity by the Byzantines, and were actually the last major Slavic tribe to be converted (previously, the work of St. Cyril and Methodius, who developed the Cyrillic Alphabet and the Church Slavonic language, had led to the conversion of the Serbs, Poles, Croats, Dalmatians, Czechs, Slovaks, Sorbs and the Bulgarians, who were initially not a Slavic tribe, but intermarried with them and switched to a Slavic language from their previous Old Bulgarian tongue).

There was actually a fair amount of rivalry between Latin Rite missionaries sent from Rome, and Byzantine Rite missionaries from Constantinople, and some Croatian and Herzegovinian Catholics were converted but using a dialect of Old Church Slavonic called Galgolithic, rather than the Latin language promulgated elsewhere. This was all before the Great Schism of 1054 when a Roman legate excommunicated the Patriarch of Constantinople for refusing to accept Papal Supremacy; Kievan Rus converted around 50 years earlier, and the choice of the Byzantine Rite was due to feedback from emissaries that St. Vladimir sent to Rome and Constantinople, but also to other religions including Islam. Fortunately for Christianity, St. Vladimir was repelled by Islamic prohibitions on alcohol consumption, so while the Turks did later convert the Bosnians (who are semi-Slavic group related to the Bulgarians, but were historically differentiated by belonging to a schismatic Bosnian Church which was associated with the Gnostic Bogomil, Paulican, Albigensian and Cathar sects), the vast majority of Slavic people are Christians. But Byzantium never ruled Kievan Rus; however, the Grand Duchy of Moscow declared itself the Third Rome after the fall of Constantinople to the Turks in 1453 owing to the Muscovite Dukes being related both to St. Vladimir and, by marriage, to the Byzantine Empire. By this stage, the Tatars had conquered Kiev, and it was these Mongolian invasions which caused the initial separation between Russia and Ukraine.

The conflict is extremely sad because both countries are ethnically closely related despite having unique cultures; its like the War of 1812 or the Civil War in our own history. Indeed in both lands (and in Belarus) the largest church (the Russian Orthodox Church and the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, not to be confused with the rival Orthodox Church in Ukraine under the Patriarch of Constantinople) are part of the Moscow Patriarchate, which is also responsible for the autonomous Orthodox Churches of Latvia, Lithuania, Korea, China and Japan, and the second largest church is Catholic (Roman Rite and Byzantine Rite, for example, the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church).
 

The Liturgist

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By the way the purpose of this thread is to correct a historical misunderstanding and comment on the conversion of the Slavic peoples, and I would respectfully ask that we avoid any political discussion relating to the ongoing tragedy in Ukraine.
 
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Andrewn

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Here are some notes about the conversion of Russia that may be useful:

"Christianity was introduced into Kievan Rus by Greek missionaries from the Byzantine Empire in the 9th century. In 863–869, Saint Cyril (826-869 AD) and Saint Methodius (815-884) translated parts of the Bible into the Old Church Slavonic language for the first time, paving the way for the Christianization of the Slavs."

"The two brothers were born in Thessalonica, then located in a Byzantine province with the same name, (today in Greece). They knew Coptic and they introduced, along with the Greek letters, Coptic letters such as (written as ) into the Russian Alphabet that is still in use in Russia today."

"Christianity came to the lands that are now Russia as a result of the “Baptism of Rus.” In 988, Grand Prince Vladimir of Kiev, the ruler of the large medieval nation of Rus, converted to Christianity and caused his subjects in Kiev to be baptized in the Dnieper River. St. Vladimir was married to the sister of the famous Byzantine Emperor Basil II, and the form of Christianity observed in Constantinople was adopted in Rus. This included the Eucharistic liturgy of St. John Chrysostom. St. John Chrysostom, who became patriarch of Constantinople in 397, is recognized by both the Orthodox and Catholic Churches as one of the great Church fathers."

The question is have is: Where there any biblical colleges or seminaries established in Russia? Where did Russia clergy receive their religious education?
 
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Quid est Veritas?

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The Crimean peninsula had been a Roman client state called the Bosporan kingdom in the 1st century BC, a remnant of Pontus. Then later this was added to Moesia Inferior as an outpost and became a province called Taurica. This was lost in the late third century AD to the Goths, and recovered by the time of Justinian, who organised it as the province of Chersonessus. It was finally lost in the 7th century to the Khazars.

So depending if you see the Crimea as Russian or Ukrainian, it has a significant history as a part of the Roman Empire. It acted as the trading emporion with the surrounding Scythians and Sarmatians and such.
 
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The Liturgist

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The question is have is: Where there any biblical colleges or seminaries established in Russia? Where did Russia clergy receive their religious education?

Interestingly the modern day seminary originated in the Counter Reformation, although in antiquity there was the Catechtical School of Alexandria and the Antiochene Theological School, which later moved to Nisibis after the Council of Ephesus.

By the time of the Baptism of Rus, theological education was largely happening in monasteries, even for married clergy in the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox churches (to this date, Coptic priests go to a monastery for what is called “The forty days” to learn liturgics, and most lack a seminary degree but instead have degrees in engineering, accounting or another technical field). Indeed Oxford and Cambridge were initially collections of abbeys, and some colleges there were founded by members of religious orders such as Benedictine monks, and Dominican, Carmelite and Franciscan friars. As time went on they developed into the universities we know today, but retain some elements of their former monastic character.
 
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Bob Crowley

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According to this Wikipedia article about 7.3% (one fourteenth) of the Ukrainian population identifified as Catholic in 2005 . Presumably most of the remainder are Orthodox, although I'd presume the years of Soviet domination produced a strong atheist heritage.

Catholic Church in Ukraine - Wikipedia

In 2005, the number of Catholics was estimated at around 4.76 million, which represents about 7.3% of the population.[citation needed] Of these, about 4 million are Greek Catholics, and 500-800 thousand Catholics of the Latin rite. There is also a small Armenian Catholic community, although before the Second World War the number of Armenian Catholics in Lviv was significant. A characteristic feature of Ukrainian Catholicism is the predominance of Greek Catholic believers over Latin Catholics. Ukraine is the only country in Europe where Catholics of the Eastern rite prevail over Latin Catholics.[citation needed]

Until the current war started, I think most people in the West would not have thought about Ukraine very much. Certainly not in Australia as we're so far away. It didn't figure high on my attention list.

As an aside, I was staying in a motel on the Sunshine Coast for a weekend about five weeks ago. I had a problem with the TV and the young motel employee who came to have a look at it was Ukrainian. He'd come to Australia well before the war started for reasons of health. He said he was asthmatic and that the cold weather in Ukraine made it worse.
 
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Andrewn

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in antiquity there was the Catechtical School of Alexandria and the Antiochene Theological School, which later moved to Nisibis after the Council of Ephesus.
In addition to the catechetical schools of Alexandria and Antioch, would you say there were others (perhaps smaller) in Rome, Carthage, Caesarea, Ephesus, and Edessa? Others?
 
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In addition to the catechetical schools of Alexandria and Antioch, would you say there were others (perhaps smaller) in Rome, Carthage, Caesarea, Ephesus, and Edessa? Others?

In Rome, certainly, but mainly focused from the time of Archbishop Victor on the translation of the Mass and the Bible into Latin, as Rome was also extremely theologically conservative, whereas Antioch and Alexandria were innovative, and Caesarea appears to have been almost like a satellite of the Alexandrian school, but certainly it did exist, in Ephesus, tradition suggests St. John the Theologian taught St. Ignatius and others at such a place, in Carthage or North Africa, there was St. Cyprian who was learned, but I would not be sure, and in Edessa, there was a place of interface between Syriac Christianity and Greek Christianity, perhaps there, or in Damascus, as St. Ephrem the Syrian clearly shows Alexandrian as well as Antiochene theological influences. However none of these other centers of theology with the exception of Ephesus during the life of St. John the Apostle were as important as Alexandria and Antioch, nor do any of them remain synonymous with a particular approach to exegesis even now. I would call Alexandria and Antioch the Athens and Sparta of Christian theology in the late Classical period. Their influence ended dramatically as a result of the Nestorian schism, which saw most of the Antiochene theologians exiled to Nisibis, and Alexandria I believe was brought down by a combination of Chalcedon, and Emperor Justinian’s brutal persecution of the Oriental Orthodox.
 
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