Historical accountability regarding the holocaust, for all of europe

[mindfulzen]

It may not be well known to all, but Germany just mirrored a sentiment of Europe when we got the holocaust. History seems to have been whitwashed, sins of other nations swept under the rug. And germany's genodial leader just used political, in our contemporary times. I checked our constitution from that time, as did I with the UK and several others, the trend was clear. All countries seemed to barr jews from entering, so the antisemitism was not a german thing, it was a european thing. We also sent jews to Germany at that time, as did other allies. We made a public apology to the jews at some time, but went pretty unnoticed.

After WW2, the UK made land available to the UN, to form an israeli state. That have since been attacked nonstop, and jews from all of europe have continuously fled to Israel because it is the only place to be safe from hatred. So, it is almost like the jewish holocaust just changed shape, and it is the same exodus as ever. Nothing changes and it has been on repeat throughout history. Is there a way of ending the spiral? The focus on one country, and one man who died 75 years ago, seems to overshadow the real issue, and a continents torrid history on this issue, which now includes america too. Any thoughts?

 

[Rescued One]

Jesus can change our hearts. Parents need the change; children are influenced by the things parents say and do. Forgiveness is for things that happened sixty years ago, 100 years ago, 200 years ago. Forgiveness for what someone said or did yesterday. But some people are stubborn and enjoy anger instead of forgiveness. I think they don't have the wonderful gift of compassion.

The fruit of the Spirit:

Galatians 5
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

 

[Chesterton]

Any thoughts?

Yes, but I'll limit them to this: I take issue with the words you used in the OP title - "historical accountability". There is no such thing. The people involved in the holocaust are dead and gone. The idea is like putting me in prison because my father robbed a bank half a century ago.

 

[mindfulzen]

Jesus can change our hearts. Parents need the change; children are influenced by the things parents say and do. Forgiveness is for things that happened sixty years ago, 100 years ago, 200 years ago. Forgiveness for what someone said or did yesterday. But some people are stubborn and enjoy anger instead of forgiveness. I think they don't have the wonderful gift of compassion.

The fruit of the Spirit:

Galatians 5
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

We agree, kind of. Not that I want kids to pay for their parents or granparents crimes, but it was more about accepting a historic fact. That all of europe was antisemitic at that time, so it was bound to happen, in any nation. Jews barred in several constitutions, something bad will eventually happen. And heard the antisemitism from loved ones. Do not want them punished. A question, about getting honest and peel the apple to the core. Too late to remedy anything, just about understanding history

 

[mindfulzen]

Yes, but I'll limit them to this: I take issue with the words you used in the OP title - "historical accountability". There is no such thing. The people involved in the holocaust are dead and gone. The idea is like putting me in prison because my father robbed a bank half a century ago.

We can do linguistics, but do we have to? Accountability does not mean punishment, there is forgiveness, right? And no specifical people are to be held accountable here, we are talking countries and a continent. I can take accountability to you, by saying I am sorry, and cannot change what I did, without you wanting to punish me. Accountability is by being honest here, and for europe and others, to admit racist laws on their books at that time. Then ask themselves, why were they there in the first place? Why did they exist after WW2? Sometimes through the 60s. There is some racial hate there, in many nations. After 45, that should be wiped away. What does those laws staying, and mass emigration from europe to Israel say about Europe? biblical context here, exodus.

 

[Jesus is my Superhero]

Hitler was intrigued with the American Eugenics movement and modeled some of his laws based on this.
Many don't like hearing this but it is the truth.
The State of Vermont in the early 20th century had a robust eugenics program. Why? I'm not sure. It's
one of the whitest State in the country. Perhaps in-breeding. (Speculation).


Edit: Vermont Eugenics: A Documentary History

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Who is behind the rise of Anti-Semitism in Europe exactly? Is it native Europeans who have been bought up in a culture to despise everything even remotely close to National Socialism or Italo-fascism?

Or could it perhaps have something to do with the large influx of Islamic peoples from north Africa and the Middle East who bring along with them a culture of Anti-Semitism that never went through a sustained effort of anti-national socialist education or de-national socialist education in the case of Germany?

Why should we pretend that Europe ahs not held itself accountable with regards to the Holocaust or what the mustache man did?

 

[mindfulzen]

Hitler was intrigued with the American Eugenics movement and modeled some of his laws based on this.
Many don't like hearing this but it is the truth.
The State of Vermont in the early 20th century had a robust eugenics program. Why? I'm not sure. It's
one of the whitest State in the country. Perhaps in-breeding. (Speculation).


Edit: Vermont Eugenics: A Documentary History

This is true, but hesitant wo write about it directly. They found a signed copy of Ms Sanger's book amongs his belongings after his death, is all I say for now.

 

[mindfulzen]

Who is behind the rise of Anti-Semitism in Europe exactly? Is it native Europeans who have been bought up in a culture to despise everything even remotely close to National Socialism or Italo-fascism?

Or could it perhaps have something to do with the large influx of Islamic peoples from north Africa and the Middle East who bring along with them a culture of Anti-Semitism that never went through a sustained effort of anti-national socialist education or de-national socialist education in the case of Germany?

Why should we pretend that Europe ahs not held itself accountable with regards to the Holocaust or what the mustache man did?

I have not talked about current events. I am not allowed to do that here. This is a historycategory. I have to earn privilieges to comment on current events. Answering you is violating the TOS. Make another thread about that, and discuss with others, I cannot follow you if I wanted to. Sorry. Keep to history folks, please.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

I have not talked about current events. I am not allowed to do that here. This is a historycategory. I have to earn privilieges to comment on current events. Answering you is violating the TOS. Make another thread about that, and discuss with others, I cannot follow you if I wanted to. Sorry. Keep to history folks, please.

You're talking about a spiral and nothing changing. Anti-Semitism in Europe today, of the sort that was common by Europeans at the time is largely dead. This is due to a persisitant effort to educate from infancy to adulthood the horrors of the National Socialist regime.

If you don't think it's relevant to bring up the cause of continued anti-Semitism in Europe what do you mean by ending the spiral? The Spiral towards what exactly? Who is responsible for the increase of Anti-Semitic attacks in Europe in general today? Is the average Norwegian so contemptful and hateful of the Jews (in your experience) that they would go and stab a bunch of people going to Synagogue?

I don't think it irrelevant to talk about modern issues especially when you implied things haven't gotten better since the 1940s. European attitudes towards the Jews are largely tolerant, as they are in most of the Western world. Small sects of Neo-National Socialists aside.

 

[Rescued One]

I won't get into American politics either. I have NEVER hated anyone that I can remember but I've always been upset by the hatred some groups have for others. I get emotional about violence toward others.

 

[Carl Emerson]

It may not be well known to all, but Germany just mirrored a sentiment of Europe when we got the holocaust. History seems to have been whitwashed, sins of other nations swept under the rug. And germany's genodial leader just used political, in our contemporary times. I checked our constitution from that time, as did I with the UK and several others, the trend was clear. All countries seemed to barr jews from entering, so the antisemitism was not a german thing, it was a european thing. We also sent jews to Germany at that time, as did other allies. We made a public apology to the jews at some time, but went pretty unnoticed.

After WW2, the UK made land available to the UN, to form an israeli state. That have since been attacked nonstop, and jews from all of europe have continuously fled to Israel because it is the only place to be safe from hatred. So, it is almost like the jewish holocaust just changed shape, and it is the same exodus as ever. Nothing changes and it has been on repeat throughout history. Is there a way of ending the spiral? The focus on one country, and one man who died 75 years ago, seems to overshadow the real issue, and a continents torrid history on this issue, which now includes america too. Any thoughts?

Apologies for historical atrocities are hard to come by...

Within Christian History we have massive hatred between denominations hardly spoken about.

Foxes Book of Martyrs gives some insight...

But do we have apologies in this 'enlightened' age...

 

[mindfulzen]

I won't get into American politics either. I have NEVER hated anyone that I can remember but I've always been upset by the hatred some groups have for others. I get emotional about violence toward others.

I have hated, not doing it again. Violence is off the table. So hatred is pointless, can only hurt me. So why hate? Cannot use hate to anything hateful, so why feel it? I focus on love instead

 

[mindfulzen]

Apologies for historical atrocities are hard to come by...

Within Christian History we have massive hatred between denominations hardly spoken about.

Foxes Book of Martyrs gives some insight...

But do we have apologies in this 'enlightened' age...

yes, that is part of my point

 

[Carl Emerson]

yes, that is part of my point

Frankly I believe it is a spirit goading hatred of God's loved.

 

[mindfulzen]

Frankly I believe it is a spirit goading hatred of God's loved.

My point stands. My faith never shatred, if that was the point. Be gone, you are not wanted here. This is a christian forum, not falling for goading

 

[Silverback]

Yes, but I'll limit them to this: I take issue with the words you used in the OP title - "historical accountability". There is no such thing. The people involved in the holocaust are dead and gone. The idea is like putting me in prison because my father robbed a bank half a century ago.

Mostly gone, Germany recently indicted a 100 year old, and he's on the docket. He's trying to provoke a response, please just ignore him.

 

[JSRG]

After WW2, the UK made land available to the UN, to form an israeli state. That have since been attacked nonstop,

It is not clear whether "they" you mean "Israel" or the Jews in Europe. If you are referring to Israel itself, it is not clear to me how Europe is to blame for the actions of non-European countries in the Middle East. If you are saying that Jews have been attacked nonstop in Europe... can we have citations or evidence of this?

and jews from all of europe have continuously fled to Israel because it is the only place to be safe from hatred.

Can we have citations or evidence of this?

 

[mindfulzen]

It is not clear whether "they" you mean "Israel" or the Jews in Europe. If you are referring to Israel itself, it is not clear to me how Europe is to blame for the actions of non-European countries in the Middle East. If you are saying that Jews have been attacked nonstop in Europe... can we have citations or evidence of this?


Can we have citations or evidence of this?

I did not use the word "they", but I meant the jews and their nation both. They are equal in scripture. It is Israel for me, and judea and samaria, sorry if we disagree, just difference of faith.

 

[JSRG]

I did not use the word "they", but I meant the jews and their nation both. They are equal in scripture. It is Israel for me, and judea and samaria, sorry if we disagree, just difference of faith.

Well I feel silly, I somehow misread "that" as "they". However, whether you explicitly said "they" or not, the ambiguity was still present.

However, that was a lesser point; my primary point was to request proof of some of the claims you were making, which you didn't offer in your response.