Historical accountability regarding the holocaust, for all of europe

[Carl Emerson]

UK anti-Semitism at all-time high during first half of  2021

In Britain, highest numbers of antisemitic incidents ever in 2021...

 

[mindfulzen]

Well I feel silly, I somehow misread "that" as "they". However, whether you explicitly said "they" or not, the ambiguity was still present.

However, that was a lesser point; my primary point was to request proof of some of the claims you were making, which you didn't offer in your response.

stop it, you can read wikipedia, and read about how many rockets that have been sent towards Israel. It is a country at technical war, that does not have a peacetrety. Asking me to prove what is common knowledge is silly. Discuss the issue or noe,

 

[Silly Uncle Wayne]

It may not be well known to all, but Germany just mirrored a sentiment of Europe when we got the holocaust. History seems to have been whitwashed, sins of other nations swept under the rug. And germany's genodial leader just used political, in our contemporary times. I checked our constitution from that time, as did I with the UK and several others, the trend was clear. All countries seemed to barr jews from entering, so the antisemitism was not a german thing, it was a european thing. We also sent jews to Germany at that time, as did other allies. We made a public apology to the jews at some time, but went pretty unnoticed.

After WW2, the UK made land available to the UN, to form an israeli state. That have since been attacked nonstop, and jews from all of europe have continuously fled to Israel because it is the only place to be safe from hatred. So, it is almost like the jewish holocaust just changed shape, and it is the same exodus as ever. Nothing changes and it has been on repeat throughout history. Is there a way of ending the spiral? The focus on one country, and one man who died 75 years ago, seems to overshadow the real issue, and a continents torrid history on this issue, which now includes america too. Any thoughts?

It is not quite true. Netherlands did accept Jews escaping from Germany... unfortunately that didn't help them in the long run. The other countries often had quotas they worked to, but under the circumstances they should have done more. There were plenty of individuals who did help Jews, e.g. Nicholas Winton and Andre Trocme.

However, there was definitely anti-semitism throughout Europe, it was just more prevalent in in Germany and that anti-semitism was made use of by Hitler to make a scapegoat for all their troubles.

Britain could have given the 'Israeli state' any land, but they chose Palestine, the traditional homeland of the Jews, which was a nice gesture by them, but not so pleasing to Palestinians and is probably the cause of modern terrorism, though some of the problems of that area is also to do with greed.

In general this sort of thing will be repeated because we live in a fallen world. In the UK, there has been a lot of 'blame the immigrants' rhetoric during the Brexit fiasco and in the last year 'blame the whites' following the murder of a black man. We need Jesus not blame

 

[mindfulzen]

It is not quite true. Netherlands did accept Jews escaping from Germany... unfortunately that didn't help them in the long run. The other countries often had quotas they worked to, but under the circumstances they should have done more. There were plenty of individuals who did help Jews, e.g. Nicholas Winton and Andre Trocme.

However, there was definitely anti-semitism throughout Europe, it was just more prevalent in in Germany and that anti-semitism was made use of by Hitler to make a scapegoat for all their troubles.

Britain could have given the 'Israeli state' any land, but they chose Palestine, the traditional homeland of the Jews, which was a nice gesture by them, but not so pleasing to Palestinians and is probably the cause of modern terrorism, though some of the problems of that area is also to do with greed.

In general this sort of thing will be repeated because we live in a fallen world. In the UK, there has been a lot of 'blame the immigrants' rhetoric during the Brexit fiasco and in the last year 'blame the whites' following the murder of a black man. We need Jesus not blame

Does not change what I said, jews were barred from entering countries in Europe, it said so in constitutions. The fact that some jews were helped by people, do not change the racist laws. The shared racist laws on the books, is the point. And it does not have to be all nations. Does not become untrue, if 3 out of 30 nations did not have racist laws.

Yes, the brits decided on Israel, because they were the protectorates of the land after the ottoman empire fell. What other land could they have given? And the point I made, was that it seems that they created Israel, to continue sending jews out. Non violent holocaust. And to explain some of the hatred, the word ghetto, is from an italian city, where jews selfsegregated and owned much of the land and industry, that made the other italians angry, and gave them jewhate. So, segregation is perhaps the problem, and the rootcause. So, we can learn from that. We see some of the same hatred today, between the left and right, which are kind of segregated in the US. Segregation because of politics, because politics have become ideologies for people.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Britain could have given the 'Israeli state' any land, but they chose Palestine, the traditional homeland of the Jews, which was a nice gesture by them, but not so pleasing to Palestinians

The 'Palestinians' were offered Trans-Jordan for their own state at the same time but they refused the offer.

 

[Chesterton]

Mostly gone, Germany recently indicted a 100 year old, and he's on the docket.

I wonder if the prosecution is seeking a life sentence, lol.

He's trying to provoke a response, please just ignore him.

Yes. If you notice the way I began my post...

 

[JSRG]

stop it, you can read wikipedia, and read about how many rockets that have been sent towards Israel. It is a country at technical war, that does not have a peacetrety. Asking me to prove what is common knowledge is silly. Discuss the issue or noe,

I was not asking for proof that there was conflict between Israel and other Middle Eastern countries. That is obvious. I was asking for proof of the claims that "jews from all of europe have continuously fled to Israel because it is the only place to be safe from hatred."

 

[Carl Emerson]

I was not asking for proof that there was conflict between Israel and other Middle Eastern countries. That is obvious. I was asking for proof of the claims that "jews from all of europe have continuously fled to Israel because it is the only place to be safe from hatred."

Fair Point - many went to South America and even South Africa, and of course the US... not Israel

 

[mindfulzen]

I was not asking for proof that there was conflict between Israel and other Middle Eastern countries. That is obvious. I was asking for proof of the claims that "jews from all of europe have continuously fled to Israel because it is the only place to be safe from hatred."

Then you are off topic. This post is about europes antisemitism, persecution of jews and Israel. The proof for Israel technically being at war, is that they have not signed a peacetrety with Hamas after the last rockets were fired. The UN has semirecognized statehood for the palestinian areas, and the two parties must unite or separate, or sign a peacetreaty at least, before there can be peace. If you need proof that jews have emigrated from europe to Israel the last 75 years, go and find the populationdata on Israel. Tremendous growth.

 

[JSRG]

Then you are off topic. This post is about europes antisemitism, persecution of jews and Israel.

Then how is asking for evidence for the claim that "jews from all of europe have continuously fled to Israel because it is the only place to be safe from hatred" off-topic? If that isn't on topic, then I don't see how anything is.

The proof for Israel technically being at war, is that they have not signed a peacetrety with Hamas after the last rockets were fired. The UN has semirecognized statehood for the palestinian areas, and the two parties must unite or separate, or sign a peacetreaty at least, before there can be peace.

As I stated, I wasn't asking for proof of Israel being involved in conflicts in the Middle East.

If you need proof that jews have emigrated from europe to Israel the last 75 years, go and find the populationdata on Israel. Tremendous growth.

The question is not whether people came to Israel; obviously, people have gone to Israel. It was the claim (at least in later times) that they were being so persecuted in Europe that they had to go to Israel just to escape the persecution. You haven't offered evidence that escaping hatred in Europe is a particularly important motivation.

 

[mindfulzen]

Then how is asking for evidence for the claim that "jews from all of europe have continuously fled to Israel because it is the only place to be safe from hatred" off-topic? If that isn't on topic, then I don't see how anything is.


As I stated, I wasn't asking for proof of Israel being involved in conflicts in the Middle East.


The question is not whether people came to Israel; obviously, people have gone to Israel. It was the claim (at least in later times) that they were being so persecuted in Europe that they had to go to Israel just to escape the persecution. You haven't offered evidence that escaping hatred in Europe is a particularly important motivation.

You were off topic, by asking for proof on a claim I never made, that other nations attacked israel. You conflated internal conflict with it. And it is off topic about jewis emigration, the topic is european sentiments of antisemitism, and old racist laws that almost all shared with Germany. This will not be derailed into another Israel/palestine thread with my help..

 

[JSRG]

You were off topic, by asking for proof on a claim I never made, that other nations attacked israel.

Where did I ask for proof on that? The only thing I said that was anything like that was when I asked for clarification on a point where it was unclear whether you were talking about Israel or Jews in general. Once you clarified that point, I didn't bring it up again.

You conflated internal conflict with it. And it is off topic about jewis emigration,

You were the one who brought up Jewish emigration in your post!

the topic is european sentiments of antisemitism, and old racist laws that almost all shared with Germany.

So my questions were on-topic.

This will not be derailed into another Israel/palestine thread with my help..

Then why are you continually talking about it when I haven't been?

Once more, please provide some evidence that, as you claim, "jews from all of europe have continuously fled to Israel because it is the only place to be safe from hatred". There was obvious anti-Semitism before World War II, but that can't count because Israel was only created as a state afterwards. What I've been asking for is for you to demonstrate that there is such anti-Semitism in Europe afterwards that Jews are having to flee to Israel to escape hatred. Instead you just keep changing the subject and then accusing me of going off topic.

 

[mindfulzen]

Where did I ask for proof on that? The only thing I said that was anything like that was when I asked for clarification on a point where it was unclear whether you were talking about Israel or Jews in general. Once you clarified that point, I didn't bring it up again.

You were the one who brought up Jewish emigration in your post!


So my questions were on-topic.


Then why are you continually talking about it when I haven't been?

Once more, please provide some evidence that, as you claim, "jews from all of europe have continuously fled to Israel because it is the only place to be safe from hatred". There was obvious anti-Semitism before World War II, but that can't count because Israel was only created as a state afterwards. What I've been asking for is for you to demonstrate that there is such anti-Semitism in Europe afterwards that Jews are having to flee to Israel to escape hatred. Instead you just keep changing the subject and then accusing me of going off topic.

Yes, I know the tactic ow wall of words, to spam. The thread is dead, so pointless. I changed my comment before you replied, because I knew I would get this reply. I may make it worded differently, and check into the ignorestuff, and see if I can barr nicks from threads, but not tonight. Have a good night.

I do not really care about the issue, just a historic fact. But it is up to europeans if they want to look on the laws they had at the time, that was antisemitic. And that was the end for the discussion, if europeans were to examine themselves, and recognize their racist laws against jews, prior to the holocaust, and for people to understand history.

 

[Silverback]

Fair Point - many went to South America and even South Africa, and of course the US... not Israel

I think you are correct, I also believe some Jewish South Africans immigrated to Israel after transition to majority rule in 1994...I don't have hard numbers though.