Hispanic Catholics

[Michie]

I hope nobody gets offended by this question but the only reason I'm asking it is because it is a big issue in my Church & in our town as well.

First let me clarify that I love our hispanic brothers & sisters & do not have any problems with them at all. Infact, I'm in the process of starting to learn Spanish to help out with that part of our community.

Ok, so now the scenerio...

We have a big problem in our Church concerning behavior of the children of some of the hispanic parents. They get into Church & scream & hoot, play in the holy water, run in & out of doors & up & down the aisles between pews. Climbing pews...you name it. One was even toddling out towards a busy street.

It really is a problem.

Easter Vigil kids were running in & out of Church, some as young as 2 yrs. old. While this is happening, the parents just sit there oblivious & do nothing. They see what the kids are doing but do nothing to control them. They just go on & sit there as if they have no kids or simply do not care.

Priests have said things during Mass. Our deacon, who is hispanic has said things...still nothing.

As our deacon said, the sound of children is a good thing, music to his ears, children get fussy but this is a whole other problem.

I've also noticed this in eating establishments. Parents come in, kids scatter & just make chaos & the parents ignore it & calmly continue to eat.

I'm wondering if this may have something to do with their culture? I know deacons family is not like this but it seems most are in our area anyway.

I don't get it.

Can somebody give some insight?

 

[Michie]

I take it nobody has seen this type of behavior or just doesn't want to touch it?

 

[Estefana]

I am Hispanic and I will try and shed my insight.

I think the Hispanic culture is more loud and boistrious than the American Culture and that sometimes it is a little different to adjust. I know that when I went to Church at Mexico, there was a lot of singing and I used to walk around and stuff, and no one cared. It was just what we did - the kids would mingle and celebrate as opposed to being sent away to Sunday school or something.

As for eating? Well, have you been to a Mescian party? Mealtimes are always a cleberation with lots of music and food and they are never quiet. Maybe this is why you find it at eating establishments, I don't know. I know Hispanic parents can be a little more liberal on matters like this, letting kids be kids and have a good time.

I know when I came to America, I found it very weird to have to sit still and not walk around and not to be allowed to sing songs and dance in some places. It was very weird to me because I grew up with life being like one big fiesta.

Not saying it is right, but just a bit of an insight on Hispanic culutre.

 

[Michie]

I am Hispanic and I will try and shed my insight.

I think the Hispanic culture is more loud and boistrious than the American Culture and that sometimes it is a little different to adjust. I know that when I went to Church at Mexico, there was a lot of singing and I used to walk around and stuff, and no one cared. It was just what we did - the kids would mingle and celebrate as opposed to being sent away to Sunday school or something.

As for eating? Well, have you been to a Mescian party? Mealtimes are always a cleberation with lots of music and food and they are never quiet. Maybe this is why you find it at eating establishments, I don't know. I know Hispanic parents can be a little more liberal on matters like this, letting kids be kids and have a good time.

I know when I came to America, I found it very weird to have to sit still and not walk around and not to be allowed to sing songs and dance in some places. It was very weird to me because I grew up with life being like one big fiesta.

Not saying it is right, but just a bit of an insight on Hispanic culutre.

I thought it might have something to do with the culture. But still, letting kids walk out into the street, climb the pews, etc. Seems awful strange to me. In the hispanic culture, it's ok for kids to do this in Church?

I'm just trying to understand.

I know about the fiestas & dinners, which to me, is festive & it is appropriate for the kids to run & play. But Church & diapered kids running off is awful scary to some of us. My friend grabbed her, she was afraid she was going to get hit by a car.

The indifference of the ushers bothered her too. They should had grabbed that baby.

Thanks for the help Estefana.

 

[Estefana]

I thought it might have something to do with the culture. But still, letting kids walk out into the street, climb the pews, etc. Seems awful strange to me. In the hispanic culture, it's ok for kids to do this in Church?

I'm just trying to understand.

I know about the fiestas & dinners, which to me, is festive & it is appropriate for the kids to run & play. But Church & diapered kids running off is awful scary to some of us. My friend grabbed her, she was afraid she was going to get hit by a car.

The indifference of the ushers bothered her too. They should had grabbed that baby.

Thanks for the help Estefana.

Thats OK - it does sound a bit extreme yes and no, it was not really something I did when I was younger. Of course, some parents let their kids get away with blue murder!

 

[Michie]

Thats OK - it does sound a bit extreme yes and no, it was not really something I did when I was younger. Of course, some parents let their kids get away with blue murder!

I think there are parents of all races that let their kids do whatever they please. It is just so darn noticable here because we see so many families that seem to have that behavior. I'm thinking it is something to do with cultural outlook & childrearing but I do not know.

Everyone has pleaded with them, including the priests & deacon to no avail. I'm just afraid this will cause a larger rift between the two communities with nobody really seeking to understand the 'whys' of it all.

It just has me extremely curious.

Anyway, thanks again for your help. I thought this thread would definitely fall off the map.

 

[King of the Nations]

Anyway, thanks again for your help. I thought this thread would definitely fall off the map.

*King reaches out and grabs at the thread as it slides off the ledge and pulls it back onto the table for a little while longer...*

I am Hispanic and I will try and shed my insight.

I think the Hispanic culture is more loud and boistrious than the American Culture and that sometimes it is a little different to adjust. I know that when I went to Church at Mexico, there was a lot of singing and I used to walk around and stuff, and no one cared. It was just what we did - the kids would mingle and celebrate as opposed to being sent away to Sunday school or something.

As for eating? Well, have you been to a Mescian party? Mealtimes are always a cleberation with lots of music and food and they are never quiet. Maybe this is why you find it at eating establishments, I don't know. I know Hispanic parents can be a little more liberal on matters like this, letting kids be kids and have a good time.

I know when I came to America, I found it very weird to have to sit still and not walk around and not to be allowed to sing songs and dance in some places. It was very weird to me because I grew up with life being like one big fiesta.

Not saying it is right, but just a bit of an insight on Hispanic culutre.

Bingo.

I'm not Hispanic myself, but have observed this in Hispanic peoples in my area and I think Estefana hit the nail right on the head. Hispanic people are just naturally more "expressive" than folks of European descent.

Lots of "side bar" activity and sound in church for white people is considered disrespectful and disruptive; while, a lack of that sound and activity for Hispanics, I suspect, is equally disconcerting.

I don't know about letting kids run into the street, but otherwise, it's definitely a matter of culture and one the Anglo community is going to need to get used to as long as your parish is going to have intra-cultural masses, rather than a Mass for the Anglo community and another for Hispanics.

My two pennies...

Greg

 

[U R my Sonshine]

I am not hispanic, either, but from my experience the hispanic culture tends to take more of an "it takes a village" attitude toward raising children. Everyone helps with the chldren. If you see mine heading for the street....please go get him, I will do the same for you, so on and so forth....

As for this in church? Well, it may be the only time the moms have got to focus on Christ.....meaning, there should probably be some sort of safe area for children provided so that the parents can worship without being distracted by the toddlers, babies and preschoolers.

By age four or five, the children should be able to sit quietly for an hour or so....but before that....NOT possible.....

I just quit going to services when we were in a very small town that had a church without a nursery or childrens program. It was just to difficult to worship and control my toddler.

 

[Quijote]

Mass in Mexico can seem a bit more "chaotic" than a Mass in the US. For example, at the time of communion, in Mexico it is not the custom to go row by row in an orderly fashion; the norm is for everyone to go at the same time. It seems disorderly, but in its own way, it isn't

Also, the Creed is not said in unison. Everyone says it at their own rate.

As the kid issue, I never noticed it in Mexico when I was growing up...then again, my dad made sure we behaved in Church :yikes: As others have mentioned, it is more of a 'cultural' thing.

 

[Vedant]

Recientemente me fui a una misa en español y no era tan caótica como dicen...

 

[PassthePeace1]

Hi, I am not Hispanic...but lived most of my life in South Texas, where Anglos where the minority. The Hispanic culture is very family orientated, and their small children are ususally not restricted in their movements. However, you will probably notice that the older children are very well behaved and reverent during Mass.

I now live in North Texas, we moved up here about 12 years ago. For weeks my husband and I had an unexplained uneasy feeling whenever we were in a public place...but we couldn't put our finger on, why we felt uneasy. Then it hit us! Everyone around us was also Anglo...lol...we were so used to being the minority, that it felt odd, to be in a situtation where everyone else was also anglo. Things seemed quite and sterile.

Within a couple of years, larger numbers of Hispanics have moved up here....and now there is quite a number of Hispanic people up here, and this too has caused some conflict at our parish. Mostly because of cultural differences. What one group sees as normal behavior the other sees as disrepectful and unordered. Intergrating the two cultures is somewhat of a challenge!

Another problem that it has presented, and one that has caused a more serious backlash aganist the hispanic community...is our church is over a hundred years old, and is beautiful, and has the feel and charm of an older Catholic Church and very much still looks Catholic. However, since we now have a growing number of new comers...mostly hispanics that have recently moved here....we are now faced with the problem, that our church's size doesnt fit the needs of our parish. There is now talk of considering building a bigger church, this has caused panic amoung, some people in the parish. They are afraid(myself included), that we will get stuck with a modern church, and we will lose our high and side altars, our beautiful stain glass windows, statues...and our stations of the cross(which are breathtaking). Some people have sugguested, us just building a separate church for the hispanics....of course, this will just separate the two communities even more.....so I do see some ruff times ahead, for both groups of people at our parish.

Peace be with you...Pam

 

[MParedon]

I had a horrific experiance the first Mass I went to when I moved back here. It was a Spanish Mass and they were doing baby baptisms. I obliviously sat in the 'rowdy' section and just couldn't believe what was going on. It was only later when leaving the Mass when I saw that the other side of the Church contained all the parents who made their children bahave well.

As for my personal experiance in the Hispanic community. In Mexico this would never have happened at a Mass. At least none of the Masses I've ever been to there. In South Texas, none of the Masses I went to (where Hispinics were the majority by far) even in Spanish had anyone acting like that at all.

I talked to my mom about it and she (really the whole last generation of my family) grew up in such a poor place and state of life in Mexico (no shoes, electricity, etc..) and she said that even the poorest of the poor had more respect for the Eucharist and the Mass than to let their kids run wild. Even to this day when we go down to say the Rosary at midnight on Christmas where little presents and oranges are given to all the local children, none of the kids act like that during the recitation of the Rosary itself. None of the parent's would allow such a thing.

In my experiance with all my many many ( ) aunts, uncles, cousins, and cousins (we call anyone that we know is related but not sure how a 'cousin' ) on both sides of my family, all occasions have a time and place. There is time to be loud and boisterious at a family dinner and block party and there is a time to be quiet and good at Mass.

My mom also said (about my bad experiance at that Mass) that they were probably those kind of people that don't really care about why they are at Church, it's some vague cultural thing for them and it's not all their fault becuase they just weren't taught correctly.*


*note: please don't jump on me about 'judging' their state of worship, etc.., I respect my mother's opinion and wouldn't take criticism about her very well at all.

 

[Michie]

I had a horrific experiance the first Mass I went to when I moved back here. It was a Spanish Mass and they were doing baby baptisms. I obliviously sat in the 'rowdy' section and just couldn't believe what was going on. It was only later when leaving the Mass when I saw that the other side of the Church contained all the parents who made their children bahave well.

As for my personal experiance in the Hispanic community. In Mexico this would never have happened at a Mass. At least none of the Masses I've ever been to there. In South Texas, none of the Masses I went to (where Hispinics were the majority by far) even in Spanish had anyone acting like that at all.

I talked to my mom about it and she (really the whole last generation of my family) grew up in such a poor place and state of life in Mexico (no shoes, electricity, etc..) and she said that even the poorest of the poor had more respect for the Eucharist and the Mass than to let their kids run wild. Even to this day when we go down to say the Rosary at midnight on Christmas where little presents and oranges are given to all the local children, none of the kids act like that during the recitation of the Rosary itself. None of the parent's would allow such a thing.

In my experiance with all my many many ( ) aunts, uncles, cousins, and cousins (we call anyone that we know is related but not sure how a 'cousin' ) on both sides of my family, all occasions have a time and place. There is time to be loud and boisterious at a family dinner and block party and there is a time to be quiet and good at Mass.

My mom also said (about my bad experiance at that Mass) that they were probably those kind of people that don't really care about why they are at Church, it's some vague cultural thing for them and it's not all their fault becuase they just weren't taught correctly.*


*note: please don't jump on me about 'judging' their state of worship, etc.., I respect my mother's opinion and wouldn't take criticism about her very well at all.

Well, we have a large hispanic population in our parish & town. Regardless of culture, this seems very wrong. Climbing pews, splashing holy water, running in & out of doors & screaming down the aisles. I guess I just cannot comprehend how this would seem ok in any culture inside a church.

And what is really baffling is the constant pleas for the control of the kids inside church & it falls on deaf ears.

Not only that, but someone is going to get seriously hurt.

We do not have a nursery area. People are expected to keep their kids in the pew. And if they get too loud, they can go into the confessional & still view Mass.

And as far as 'it takes a villiage to raise a child', does not work in the scenerio. They get very offended if you escort the kid back to the seat while the child is screaming 'no' the whole time.

As the ushers said, they do this all the time, just the way they are.

So they will not intervene anymore.

My friend was in tears lastnight talking about it. She said she does not get anything out of Mass anymore, she can't hear or concentrate.

Nobody wants to be seen as racist but it is a legitimate complaint.

Nothing to do with race.

But I think some sort of compromise needs to be made.

 

[Michie]

Recientemente me fui a una misa en español y no era tan caótica como dicen...

Well that is nice that your Spanish Mass was not as chaotic as I describe. But it does not discount the problem we are experiencing here in my parish... there is no exaggeration here.

 

[marciadietrich]

We have a few hispanic families in our parish, never had such a problem. At the service (not Mass but the Archbishop was there and then a prolife rosary procession after) didn't see such a thing either. I hope to go to a Spanish language Mass soon, so will see then.

Now, on the otherhand, recently I was at a event where it was a sort of combination beauty contest (4 or 5 young women being voted on as 'mas bella'), drinking and dance fest. It was about 35-40% families with kids of all ages, 10 or 15% young unmarried couples, 50% youngish unattached men (varying from late teens to late 30's) and one feeling out of place white person (me).

The young kids ran about. Before dancing started young kids bopping on the dance floor to the music (one little toddler so precious, he could dance better than I can, lol), during the dancing some kids around 9-10 running and slap tag type behavior.

To me not an event I would have taken young kids to, but seemed everyday to the people there and not too concerned that their children were running about. To some extent, many of the people there were related in some way or knew each other via work. It was so loud and crowded it was overwhelming to me (along with a listening and trying to comprehend Spanish overload on my part), no big deal to everyone else.

Marcia

 

[PastorMikeJ]

Please send them to our church!!!! we enjoy the children..we are the only bilingual church in Vermont!!!Our kids have freedom in church...everyone looks after them...and it is amazing that when the service starts they all quiet down...it is so beautiful..Remember what Jesus said about the children...

 

[Michie]

Please send them to our church!!!! we enjoy the children..we are the only bilingual church in Vermont!!!Our kids have freedom in church...everyone looks after them...and it is amazing that when the service starts they all quiet down...it is so beautiful..Remember what Jesus said about the children...

You're missing the point. Someone is going to get hurt. This is not about restraining the children from Jesus.

Whole different issue.

Go back & read my posts.

It seems to be a no win situation.

 

[Monica02]

I visited a HIspanic parish last year and the little ones were tossing a football around and almost hit me in the head. They were real nice about it, it was not deliberate or anything. It was really different at that parish, but I do like seeing all those kids.

 

[ArJay81]

I am Latino (Argentine and Mexican).

It is not a matter of race/ethnicity, but how the kids are raised.

My sister and I and all our cousins were taught to respect all during Mass, and at other times too.

In my current parish, it's the white kids who run around causing problems. The parents seem oblivious. But again, it isn't an ethnic problem, it's about parental control. Please don't think all of any race or ethnic group behave in a certain way, it's not that simple.

 

[Michie]

I am Latino (Argentine and Mexican).

It is not a matter of race/ethnicity, but how the kids are raised.

My sister and I and all our cousins were taught to respect all during Mass, and at other times too.

In my current parish, it's the white kids who run around causing problems. The parents seem oblivious. But again, it isn't an ethnic problem, it's about parental control. Please don't think all of any race or ethnic group behave in a certain way, it's not that simple.

The reason it is discussed that way in the parish is because it is those families that are not watching the kids. If you go back & read my posts, you'll see it is not a 'racism' issue persay, if this was white families, we'd have the same problem.