Hijab, Head Covering and Islam

mo.mentum

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[font=Verdana,arial]A number of European countries are instigating laws to ban or restrict the wearing of the Muslim headscarf. Such legislation questions the foundations of tolerance and equality in societies that champion pluralism and freedom of religion.

France is currently considering an outright ban on the wearing of veils in schools, while in Germany, two states have proposed legislation which would also bar the scarf from educational institutions.

This article address the issue of Hijab, the modesty of covering the head by Muslim Women, and also the Judaeo-Christian tradition of veil and head covering.
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[font=Verdana,arial]The Hijab and Veil?[/font]

[font=Verdana,arial]Some in the west consider the modesty of head covering practiced by Muslim women as the greatest symbol of women's oppression and servitude. Is it true that there is no similar custom in the Judaeo-Christian tradition? Let us set the record straight. According to Rabbi Dr. Menachem M. Brayer (Professor of Biblical Literature at Yeshiva University) in his book, The Jewish woman in Rabbinic literature, it was the custom of Jewish women to go out in public with a head covering which, sometimes, even covered the whole face leaving one eye free. 76 He quotes some famous ancient Rabbis saying," It is not like the daughters of Israel to walk out with heads uncovered" and "Cursed be the man who lets the hair of his wife be seen...a woman who exposes her hair for self-adornment brings poverty." Rabbinic law forbids the recitation of blessings or prayers in the presence of a bareheaded married woman since uncovering the woman's hair is considered "nudity". 77 Dr. Brayer also mentions that "During the Tannaitic period the Jewish woman's failure to cover her head was considered an affront to her modesty. When her head was uncovered she might be fined four hundred zuzim for this offense." Dr. Brayer also explains that veil of the Jewish woman was not always considered a sign of modesty. Sometimes, the veil symbolized a state of distinction and luxury rather than modesty. The veil personified the dignity and superiority of noble women. It also represented a woman's inaccessibility as a sanctified possession of her husband. 78

The veil signified a woman's self-respect and social status. Women of lower classes would often wear the veil to give the impression of a higher standing. The fact that the veil was the sign of nobility was the reason why prostitutes were not permitted to cover their hair in the old Jewish society. However, prostitutes often wore a special headscarf in order to look respectable. 79 Jewish women in Europe continued to wear veils until the nineteenth century when their lives became more intermingled with the surrounding secular culture. The external pressures of the European life in the nineteenth century forced many of them to go out bare-headed. Some Jewish women found it more convenient to replace their traditional veil with a wig as another form of hair covering. Today, most pious Jewish women do not cover their hair except in the synagogue. 80 Some of them, such as the Hasidic sects, still use the wig. 81

What about the Christian tradition? It is well known that Catholic Nuns have been covering their heads for hundreds of years, but that is not all. St. Paul in the New Testament made some very interesting statements about the veil:

"Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head - it is just as though her head were shaved. If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or shaved off, she should cover her head. A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head" (I Corinthians 11:3-10).

St. Paul's rationale for veiling women is that the veil represents a sign of the authority of the man, who is the image and glory of God, over the woman who was created from and for man. St. Tertullian in his famous treatise 'On The Veiling Of Virgins' wrote, "Young women, you wear your veils out on the streets, so you should wear them in the church, you wear them when you are among strangers, then wear them among your brothers..." Among the Canon laws of the Catholic church today, there is a law that requires women to cover their heads in church. 82 Some Christian denominations, such as the Amish and the Mennonites for example, keep their women veiled to the present day. The reason for the veil, as offered by their Church leaders, is that "The head covering is a symbol of woman's subjection to the man and to God", which is the same logic introduced by St. Paul in the New Testament. 83

From all the above evidence, it is obvious that Islam did not invent the head cover. However, Islam did endorse it. The Quran urges the believing men and women to lower their gaze and guard their modesty and then urges the believing women to extend their head covers to cover the neck and the bosom:

"Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty...And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what ordinarily appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms..." (Quran 24:30,31).

The Quran is quite clear that the veil is essential for modesty, but why is modesty important? The Quran is still clear:

"O Prophet, tell your wives and daughters and the believing women that they should cast their outer garments over their bodies (when abroad) so that they should be known and not molested" (Quran 33:59).

This is the whole point, modesty is prescribed to protect women from molestation or simply, modesty is protection. Thus, the only purpose of the hijab in Islam is protection.

The hijab, unlike the veil of the Christian tradition, is not a sign of man's authority over woman nor is it a sign of woman's subjection to man. The hijab, unlike the veil in the Jewish tradition, is not a sign of luxury and distinction of some noble married women. In Islam the hijab is a sign of modesty which safeguards the personal integrity of women. The Quran strongly emphasizes the protection of women's reputation and condemns men to be severely punished if they falsely accuse a woman of unchastity:

"And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations)- Flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors" (Quran 24:4)

Some people, especially in the West, would tend to ridicule the whole argument of modesty for protection. Their argument is that the best protection is the spread of education, civilized behavior, and self restraint. We would say: fine but not enough. If 'civilization' is enough protection, then why is it that women in North America dare not walk alone in a dark street - or even across an empty parking lot ? If education is the solution, then why is it that our universities have a 'walk home service' mainly for female students on campus? If self restraint is the answer, then why are cases of sexual harassment in the workplace reported on the news media every day? A sample of those accused of sexual harassment, in the last few years, includes: Navy officers, Managers, University professors, Senators, Supreme Court Justices, and the President of the United States!
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[font=Verdana,arial]Following are some statistics, published in a pamphlet issued by the Dean of Women's office at Queen's University Canada:

In Canada, a woman is sexually assaulted every 6 minutes,
1 in 3 women in Canada will be sexually assaulted at some time in their lives,
1 in 4 women are at the risk of rape or attempted rape in her lifetime,
1 in 8 women will be sexually assaulted while attending college or university, and
A study found 60% of Canadian university-aged males said they would commit sexual assault if they were certain they wouldn't get caught.

To combat the violation of women a radical change in the society's life style and culture is absolutely necessary. A culture of modesty is desperately needed, modesty in dress, in speech, and in manners of both men and women, otherwise, the grim statistics are likely to increase and unfortunately, women alone will be paying the price. Actually, we all suffer but as K. Gibran has said, "...for the person who receives the blows is not like the one who counts them." 84
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[font=Verdana,arial]A society like France which expels young women from schools because of their modest dress is, in the end, simply harming itself.

It is one of the great ironies of our world today that the very same headscarf revered as a sign of 'holiness' when worn by Catholic Nuns, is reviled as a sign of 'oppression' when worn for the purpose of modesty and protection by Muslim women.
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[font=Verdana,arial]The above article is adapted from "Women in Islam Versus Women in the Judaeo-Christian Tradition - The Myth and The Reality" by Dr. Sherif Abdel Azim of Queens University, Kingston, Ontario, Canada.[/font]

[font=Verdana,arial]Notes:[/font]

[font=Verdana,arial]76. Menachem M. Brayer, The Jewish Woman in Rabbinic Literature: A Psychosocial Perspective (Hoboken, N.J: Ktav Publishing House, 1986) p. 239.[/font]

[font=Verdana,arial]77. Ibid., pp. 316-317. Also see Swidler, op. cit., pp. 121-123.[/font]

[font=Verdana,arial]78. Ibid., p. 139.[/font]

[font=Verdana,arial]79. Susan W. Schneider, Jewish and Female (New York: Simon & Schuster, 1984) p. 237.[/font]

[font=Verdana,arial]80. Ibid., pp. 238-239.[/font]

[font=Verdana,arial]81. Alexandra Wright, "Judaism", in Holm and Bowker, ed., op. cit., pp. 128-129[/font]

[font=Verdana,arial]82. Clara M. Henning, "Cannon Law and the Battle of the Sexes" in Rosemary R. Ruether, ed., Religion and Sexism: Images of Woman in the Jewish and Christian Traditions (New York: Simon and Schuster, 1974) p. 272[/font]

[font=Verdana,arial]83. Donald B. Kraybill, The riddle of the Amish Culture (Baltimore: Johns Hopkins University Press, 1989) p. 56.[/font]

84. Khalil Gibran, Thoughts and Meditations (New York: Bantam Books, 1960) p. 28.

Article can be found at: http://www.islamicity.com/articles/Articles.asp?ref=IC0301-2178
 

feral

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If France or any other country bans the hijab, or niquab, or chador, etc I will be very disappointed. Those head coverings are a religious symbol and a symbol of modesty and feminine chastity. They are not destructive, distracting or harmful in any way. Outlawing them is pointless and discriminatory. I am not Muslim but I respect the individual choice to wear covering and to follow the Qur'an on modest dress. I do not think the government has any reason to interfere with personal dress.

I would feel the same if a government outlawed the wearing of cruxifix necklaces, bonnets on the Amish, saffron robes on Buddhist monks, habits on nuns, etc. There is no reason to do so. I believe that requiring the face to be exposed on identification is justified, but there is no reason that a woman wearing a facial covering cannot be questioned by a female in the event her identity needs to be proven.

I don't see it as a symbol of oppression unless an individual is being required to wear the item. In the west, in France, there are no laws requiring the wearing of coverings. A woman makes that choice herself or agrees when her family suggests it. I think seeing naked female bodies used to sell beer and vacations as a symbol of oppression. A Playboy magazine is a symbol of oppression. Being told by a government that you can't dress modestly is oppression, but a hijab, no.
 
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Azad

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feral said:
If France or any other country bans the hijab, or niquab, or chador, etc I will be very disappointed. Those head coverings are a religious symbol and a symbol of modesty and feminine chastity. They are not destructive, distracting or harmful in any way. Outlawing them is pointless and discriminatory. I am not Muslim but I respect the individual choice to wear covering and to follow the Qur'an on modest dress. I do not think the government has any reason to interfere with personal dress.

I would feel the same if a government outlawed the wearing of cruxifix necklaces, bonnets on the Amish, saffron robes on Buddhist monks, habits on nuns, etc. There is no reason to do so. I believe that requiring the face to be exposed on identification is justified, but there is no reason that a woman wearing a facial covering cannot be questioned by a female in the event her identity needs to be proven.

I don't see it as a symbol of oppression unless an individual is being required to wear the item. In the west, in France, there are no laws requiring the wearing of coverings. A woman makes that choice herself or agrees when her family suggests it. I think seeing naked female bodies used to sell beer and vacations as a symbol of oppression. A Playboy magazine is a symbol of oppression. Being told by a government that you can't dress modestly is oppression, but a hijab, no.
The french government is not banning the Hijab etc...it is banning it in school, including high school. In university, women are free to do as they like.
It is also banning kippa's and large crosses, because the french school is areligious.

Another reason is the fact that many girls were the head scarf because they have too and not because they want to. So that way, these girls are protected by the law until they are 18.

Mo mentum: Can you find me a place in the old testament that ask women to wear the veil?
In Christianity, there is no veil either, you quoted 1 chorinthians 11:3-10
when you should have quoted 1 Chorinthians 11:3-15 in order to have the whole picture on the matter, I don't know if you've done it intentionally or not!
here is the rest:

11Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.
13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?
14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

And there you go.
 
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water_ripple

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I understand Y schools have dress codes. Clothing that is too revealing can be distracting. But religious clothing? This is completely ridiculous. When I first heard that France was going to ban the head scarf, the skull cap, and certian types of crosses I really thought that the French people would not allow this to happen. This has nothing to do with equality..it has everything to do with the infringement of people's personal rights, and mandating an ideology of no religion. To simply spout off that the head covering is only oppressive is ludicris. There are women who feel deeply the spiritual connection with the head covering that has everything to do with the way in which they worship.

To eliminate a person's right to wear religious clothing is a crime. I am flabberghasted that people of the free world are actually serious in persuing this. We all gasp at how Islamic countries treat women..then we turn around and demand that noone should be able to wear what is most sacred to them...It makes no sense whatsoever...and women who wear the headscarf, or men who wear the skull cap, etc..are not simply wearing them to get some sort of reaction out of others. This is about who a person is. Trying to hinder a person's identiy..moreso a person's identiy with God will not yield any type of good fruit. Nobody has the right to try and strip them of who they are..even if it is the government.
 
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InnerPhyre

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There should be allowences made in any school dress code to accomodate religious beliefs. Should orthodox Jews not be able to cover their heads? We're not even talking PROMOTION of religion here. We're talking about people following their cultural and religious beliefs and tenants. Sad.

First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist. Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for me, and by then there was no one left to speak out for me.
 
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MorphRC

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I find it kind of hypocritical that france a Catholic majority country, Pre-V2, had to wear head scarfs or mandilas in Church and in classes, yet here Post-V2, they are banning exactly what the Church enforced for 1943 years. Btw Post V2 loosen the enforcement of the Mandila. But it is still worn by eldery people, who like to stick with tradition.
 
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Kira Faye

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I feel a bit muddled over it...........cause this is a public school we are talkign and some one mentioned abotu how children had nto made the chocie to the religion but their parents and enforcing this lack of religion within the school give them a chance to see and interact with people and learn if they want to other religions. However someone also mentioned it beign a cultural modesty thing...........however wouldn't a school uniform designed correctly be modest enough? but its a cultural thing isn't it..................My main problem with going either side is the cultural vs the religious thing........I think a public school shouldn't really have that much religion thats the parents choice, but then I don't see hwo it interferrs to wear ur own religious symbil discreetly..........however the culture does reflect religion................and can peopel see why I am going aroudn in circles?
 
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mo.mentum

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Look. It's simple. "Do as you please, just don't harm anyone". Can't we all just do that?

Who the F cares if they wear a veil or not? Is it burning other's eyes? Is it making teenage boys upset cuz they dont get to see the girl half stripped with miniskirts? Like ***? Just let them be i say! Jew, Buddhist, Hindu, Christian..our cultures and religions are intrinsic to one another.

France is just being a baby and trying to enforce its new religion, Secularism. Eeeeesh.
 
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Kira Faye said:
I feel a bit muddled over it...........cause this is a public school we are talkign and some one mentioned abotu how children had nto made the chocie to the religion but their parents and enforcing this lack of religion within the school give them a chance to see and interact with people and learn if they want to other religions. However someone also mentioned it beign a cultural modesty thing...........however wouldn't a school uniform designed correctly be modest enough? but its a cultural thing isn't it..................My main problem with going either side is the cultural vs the religious thing........I think a public school shouldn't really have that much religion thats the parents choice, but then I don't see hwo it interferrs to wear ur own religious symbil discreetly..........however the culture does reflect religion................and can peopel see why I am going aroudn in circles?
I don't think it's so much of a 'cultural v. religion' thing as such. Orthodox Jewish and devout Christian women cover their heads in submission to G-d. So to then have a secular government dictate against something which is a person's sign of obedience to G-d, for me is a non issue. They should be allowed to cover.

What France fails to realise is that these girls and other children following their respective faiths, are not following a fashion trend, they are obeying the faith that they choose and given the choice (which they may not have) between G-d and man, of course they will choose obedience to G-d.

If I was to teach in France I would be out of a job because I would, on the passing of this law, wear a head scarf. I mean, what about the Catholic schools taught by nuns? Are the nun's suppose to uncover their heads because of this new law?

Whilst I'm all for school uniforms, I disagree with something set in place by a secular government to inhibit religious observerance.

Just my 2 cents...
 
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Kira Faye

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But we have to remember its just in PUBLIC schools............if u go to a private school they will tell u exactly what to do.....................and it is sometimes religion vs culture because things that are religious sometimes become just a mere cultural thing then anythign or vice versa.
 
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water_ripple

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Kira Faye said:
But we have to remember its just in PUBLIC schools............if u go to a private school they will tell u exactly what to do.....................and it is sometimes religion vs culture because things that are religious sometimes become just a mere cultural thing then anythign or vice versa.
This type of oppression has also knocked upon the wiccan doors. I really do not know how strongly you feel about your religion..remember though that once again it will be at your doorstep. Are you willing to give up who you are for the sake of the government or schoolboard? Are your dieties so insignificant that you would forsake them for what the local level mandates? That is what the big deal is about. Anyone who has a strong connection to their beliefs will not give them up simply for the sake of the public school system or anything else for that matter.
 
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Kira Faye

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But I'm nto debating the religious side I am debating the cultural side..plus I don't need to wear anythign to show my love for my faith.........I choose to wear a pentagram btu if I were nto allowed to I would respect the descision because the biggest symbol of my religion is in ym heart where no one can take it away............ and the schools are allowign discrete symbols of faith still anyway so u can wear a small cross or pentagram or whatever else without any problems so the problem no longer because religious one because u are allowed to do that but the cultural thing of wearing these things.......as I am told by many muslims in is not in the kuran to have to wear a headscarf that is the choice and interpretation of the people.

I have strong faith, it is so strong they could strip me naked of any sort of religious dress and I would still not worry because my faith liek I said before is in my heart and not my clothes.
 
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Lotuspetal_uk

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Kira Faye said:
But I'm nto debating the religious side I am debating the cultural side..plus I don't need to wear anythign to show my love for my faith.........I choose to wear a pentagram btu if I were nto allowed to I would respect the descision because the biggest symbol of my religion is in ym heart where no one can take it away............ and the schools are allowign discrete symbols of faith still anyway so u can wear a small cross or pentagram or whatever else without any problems so the problem no longer because religious one because u are allowed to do that but the cultural thing of wearing these things.......as I am told by many muslims in is not in the kuran to have to wear a headscarf that is the choice and interpretation of the people.

I have strong faith, it is so strong they could strip me naked of any sort of religious dress and I would still not worry because my faith liek I said before is in my heart and not my clothes.
I respect that that is how your religion is. But with all due respect, not everyone is like you (no disrespect meant there) in terms of the reasons why they wear what they wear. :) For some, a head scarf is not an outward expression, nor is it just a cultural thing. If it was then this would not make international news. But it is an item of clothing which enables them to comply with the requirements of their religion. As Water Ripple mentioned, if one feels strongly about their faith then what right has a secular government got to dictate to them?

I think someone of the Islamic faith can probably give you more details but as I understand, it is a commandment for (devout i.e. those who observe the Quran and Sunnah) Muslim girls to dress modestly. They have to cover their awrah (not sure of spelling and can't look it up right now). The awrah are those areas which can be deemed as erotic to the opposite gender. For women it is anything ankle up, above the forearm, their hair and their neck (I believe, again a Muslim can better clarify for you). The Quran as I recall commands that I woman keeps herself covered, so the head scarf is not a religious or cultural identity but part of the observerance of their faith. For some women to have it removed in the presence of non family male members it is as though she were naked and it is considered a dishonour and disobedience to G-d.

With a law like this it is an infringement of such an individual's right to carry out their belief. That, I believe is what many people object to.

I hope that clarifies this somewhat :)
 
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Kira Faye

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In a way yes, but u can also see why I am getting personnal offence when I am sayign I am confused and here is my ponderings and am told my faith is not up to standard, why else would I say I am unsure and then put opposign arguments and look at both ends if not to clarify what I have been told and everything. Water_ripple deeply insulted me when my postings are rambellings trying to look for an answer have I put any true opinion up? No I have just said side of arguments I know of. And like I said as far as I know in teh kuran it does nto state to cover the hair only to dress modestly...........as I am not well versed in the kuran I am merly repeating what muslims have told to me.............so if a muslim were to show me passages sayign that I woudl retract my statement, but form what I have been told its mroe of a cultural thing and nowhere in the kuran does it say to cover ur hair................thats my standing until someone of a greater knowledge and with more evidence shows me otherwise............ Ignorance is not bliss, show me I am wrong and I will except it because therefore I have learned if u can not let me others.
 
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MorphRC

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mo.mentum said:
Look. It's simple. "Do as you please, just don't harm anyone". Can't we all just do that?

Who the F cares if they wear a veil or not? Is it burning other's eyes? Is it making teenage boys upset cuz they dont get to see the girl half stripped with miniskirts? Like ***? Just let them be i say! Jew, Buddhist, Hindu, Christian..our cultures and religions are intrinsic to one another.

France is just being a baby and trying to enforce its new religion, Secularism. Eeeeesh.
"Do as you please, just don't harm anyone".Wow a Muslim stating a Wiccan quote. Never thought Id see that.
 
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MorphRC

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mo.mentum said:
Look. It's simple. "Do as you please, just don't harm anyone". Can't we all just do that?

Who the F cares if they wear a veil or not? Is it burning other's eyes? Is it making teenage boys upset cuz they dont get to see the girl half stripped with miniskirts? Like ***? Just let them be i say! Jew, Buddhist, Hindu, Christian..our cultures and religions are intrinsic to one another.

France is just being a baby and trying to enforce its new religion, Secularism. Eeeeesh.
Please tell me Im seeing things and that you didnt all Secularism a religion?
 
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mala

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Morpheus_Anubis said:
Please tell me Im seeing things and that you didnt all Secularism a religion?
i would assume that by that he meant some people are you might say "religous" about secularism

there are secularists out there that have there heads so far up they're rumps that they want to get rid of all mentions of religion from life

like that annoying guy in the US who filed a suit to get undergod out of the pledge and also, same guy, who filed to get god off of the currency

in some countries (france) there are a lot of these annoying people (no offense but it's true)

ps.
(yes there are alos a lot of annoying people on the other side of the equation as well but that is irrelevant to the op of this thread)
 
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mo.mentum

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mala said:
i would assume that by that he meant some people are you might say "religous" about secularism

there are secularists out there that have there heads so far up they're rumps that they want to get rid of all mentions of religion from life

like that annoying guy in the US who filed a suit to get undergod out of the pledge and also, same guy, who filed to get god off of the currency

in some countries (france) there are a lot of these annoying people (no offense but it's true)

ps.
(yes there are alos a lot of annoying people on the other side of the equation as well but that is irrelevant to the op of this thread)
Thanx for answering ! i was gonna say that heheh
 
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