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- Thread starter lovingboy
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lovingboy said:
A little adultery is OK?
The occasional murder?
Infrequent lying?
Incest, now and again?
Theft, once in a blue moon?
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JesusWasn'tWhite
Well-Known Member
I don't think that passage is saying that God thinks everything is permissable, if not in excess... it seems as though the passage is saying that someone can do anything (like, has the ability to do somethign), but not everything that person will do is profitable to the body or spirit. Then Paul says he will not be mastered by anything. Then it says that God will *destroy the food for the stomach (the thing that is fulfilling the desires) and the stomach for the food (the thing that is being fulfilled by the desires).
Where in there does it say anything about excessive conduct?
Paul says he won't be mastered by anything... but that's not a new theme. It's talked about in other places too, about not being a slave to the body, or being only a slave for Christ.
Mutual masturbation is a cheap simulation for sex.
Where in there does it say anything about excessive conduct?
Paul says he won't be mastered by anything... but that's not a new theme. It's talked about in other places too, about not being a slave to the body, or being only a slave for Christ.
Mutual masturbation is a cheap simulation for sex.
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Sorry, there is a difference. But still, he has already said that he is intending to follow his gf's wishes. I just thought there was no need to tell him.Inperfected said:
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Viaken
Member
Going by your reply, it seems you feel I was judging you, or trying to say you are trying to justify your actions, but that wasn't my intent at all. I did want you to think about your motives in wanting this knowledge, but I was earnest in my questions. I wish to understand your position. So far, all I've seen is "The Bible doesn't expressly forbid it and I didn't feel it was sexual, so I think it's alright." and I don't understand how you see it as nonsexual. Do you define sex as just intercourse? Then what's oral sex? (and why is it called sex if it isn't?)
Is there any way you can clarify your position for me?
Is there any way you can clarify your position for me?
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SoC
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*having only skimmed all the posts*
Whether or not you'll admit it, you are trying to justify your actions. You are not seeking knowledge, but approval from an online forum. If you were only seeking knowledge, you would not be defending your actions.
If you really want knowledge of what the Bible says about this, try opening it up and studying it. And don't rely on your own understanding of it, take what you find to your pastor and/or your parents and/or an elder in the church. See what they have to say about it. And foremost, pray about it. You keep saying you just want knowledge, but you spend half your time defending your actions, and the other half shooting down the advice and scripture given to you. Stop doing that and actually take the advice and scripture and pray about them. Think hard on them.
The Bible calls us to have not even a hint of sexual immorality. Can you honestly say that mutual masturbation, lustful or not (though I can't see how it can not be lustful), is not sexually immoral? It's bascially sex with different parts of the body than normal. How is that not immoral?
*exits thread*
Whether or not you'll admit it, you are trying to justify your actions. You are not seeking knowledge, but approval from an online forum. If you were only seeking knowledge, you would not be defending your actions.
If you really want knowledge of what the Bible says about this, try opening it up and studying it. And don't rely on your own understanding of it, take what you find to your pastor and/or your parents and/or an elder in the church. See what they have to say about it. And foremost, pray about it. You keep saying you just want knowledge, but you spend half your time defending your actions, and the other half shooting down the advice and scripture given to you. Stop doing that and actually take the advice and scripture and pray about them. Think hard on them.
The Bible calls us to have not even a hint of sexual immorality. Can you honestly say that mutual masturbation, lustful or not (though I can't see how it can not be lustful), is not sexually immoral? It's bascially sex with different parts of the body than normal. How is that not immoral?
*exits thread*
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JulySheMustFly
Legend
There is alot not specifically spoken of in the Bible. Those areas are defined differently by everyone. In your case your gf defines them differently. You say you weren't think of sex etc. but she may have. It is very possible that she felt it was a dangerous door to open for her. If that is the case then it doesn't matter what the Biblical position is on it because he decision is what should be honored. You said you would honor her decision end of story.
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eatenbylocusts
Senior Veteran
lovingboy- As this topic isn't addressed specifically in the Bible you are only going to get opinions, so I will offer mine. I grew up in the church. The only thing I ever heard from my parents and church was "no sex until marriage". I had no youth group during the years I needed it. My only boundary was no intercourse. I kissed lots of guys at dance clubs after drinking and felt twinges of guilt. My lack of appropriate boundaries and dating non-christians led me into some dangerous situations that I regret.
I've been dating now for about 2.5 years and I have some new boundaries based on past experience. I don't kiss on first dates. I've only kissed one man in the last 7 years. Intimate touching, if it occurs, would only happen after a formal engagement. I say if, because if either of us were convicted otherwise then it should just wait until marriage. I also picture a short engagement.
The problem with the touching is that it can become the focus of the relationship and get in the way of getting to know each other. There is the chance that once the clothes are out of the way it becomes that much easier to actually have intercourse, especially when one or both do not have the strong conviction of waiting for marriage.
I offer my opinion as a single person who has struggled in this area. After being married and then not even being kissed for 7 years I got carried away with the wonderful kissing of my bf who had just been a friend for quite a while. He talked about marriage, but now we're not even exclusively dating. It is so hard to go back to a less intimate relationship and not feel rejected.
Isn't it better to live without a lot of regrets? The kind of touching you're talking about can complicate relationships that are already complicated. I wish we had not gone there.
I've been dating now for about 2.5 years and I have some new boundaries based on past experience. I don't kiss on first dates. I've only kissed one man in the last 7 years. Intimate touching, if it occurs, would only happen after a formal engagement. I say if, because if either of us were convicted otherwise then it should just wait until marriage. I also picture a short engagement.
The problem with the touching is that it can become the focus of the relationship and get in the way of getting to know each other. There is the chance that once the clothes are out of the way it becomes that much easier to actually have intercourse, especially when one or both do not have the strong conviction of waiting for marriage.
I offer my opinion as a single person who has struggled in this area. After being married and then not even being kissed for 7 years I got carried away with the wonderful kissing of my bf who had just been a friend for quite a while. He talked about marriage, but now we're not even exclusively dating. It is so hard to go back to a less intimate relationship and not feel rejected.
Isn't it better to live without a lot of regrets? The kind of touching you're talking about can complicate relationships that are already complicated. I wish we had not gone there.
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Viaken said:
From my view I am not going to do it. I actually do believe in purity and do not condonce premarital sex. Now on the other hand, you mentioned how oral sex has the word sex in it, and I do agree, but where in the word "masturbation" is sex involved? that's exactly where my argument lies, is mutual masturbation considered sex? and why or why not? (this is taking into accoutn the variables alrewady discussed: loving relationship, no lust, no sex, no selfishness involved)
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bliz said:
What I meant to say is that Go dallows anythign which he has not forbidden, and that we as human beings are allowed to make our own choices and decisions based on our own personal morals and values. Which would further clarify the use of the 10 commandmends as things that God forbids.
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lovingboy said:
How can you not have lost during mutual masturbation?
You must not be very attracted to your girlfriend...
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wannabsuprman said:
I think you meant lust. But I agree with both of you. "Mutual masturbation" would be fine if you did not lust, but I do not see how that is possible. I personally do not see the pleasure in being the one performing the act, but I am not a guy and you all seem to think that there would defintely be lust, so I'll just take you for your word. But being a woman, I can see the difficulty in the situation from a different angle. Even if you did not lust, and even if your gf agreed to this, I see no way that she would not be having a loud of sinful thoughts.
So I think that the act is wrong, not because of what you feel, but because of what the recipient feels. When considering this, I do not think there is any way for it to be moral.
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I am only trying to see the reason and understaning behind such actions, I really do not know how many times I have to explain that my decision has nothing to do with the information obtained from this discussion. I have tried looking at the Bible (had you read the posts more carefully you would know this), and I have also asked my parentss' points of view and have still gotten controversial oppinions, as one of my parents doe snot see any harm caused by it while the other does. Please stop trying to make me sound like some sort of liberal nut that all he wants is to have sex or touch with his girlfriend because this is really not even the case, and just try seeing the facts for what they are, instead of thinking that i am looking for support based on some information obtained from a forum.SoC said:
It is part of my nature to be curious and obtain more knowledge, I am by no means trying to justify my behavior or try to change anyones oppinion, but only to understand for the sake of not being ignorant.
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tryinghard said:
Once again, I am not looking for anyone to solve any of my problems, but only to have a better understanding of Christianity. I once again will say that I do not believe in premaritasl sex and have decided to not have these kinds of behaviors, but I would still like to know just for the sake of knowledge.
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eatenbylocusts said:
Thank you for actually listening and being objective, while providing useful insights. This is exactly what I would like this discussion to be like, instead of a free for all bash.
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wannabsuprman said:
That would be one of the things which I do not understand, as I have been in a couple of relationships, and yes, I admit that i have lusted over them, but when i look at my current girlfriend I get a completely different feeling, I just want her to be happy, because just seeing her smile lights up my heart. I know thatt it might be difficult to understand, but I do not consider myself to lust over her, unless making her happy could be considered to be lustful.
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lovingboy said:
n 1: activities associated with sexual intercourse
You can't have asexual intercourse. Bro, here's the bottom line. If you're really ignorant enough to think that mutual masturbation (so you're putting something besides your genitals together) is not sexual, then that's your problem.
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lovingboy said:
All this emotional jargon is nice, but you are really completely avoiding the point.
How can you mutually touch if you're not lusting after her? Obviously a certain body function has to be put into effect...
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wannabsuprman said:
Can we please stop bashing? How many times must I make it clear that i do not want a bash fest where you are getting to the point of insulting others. I did not specify that I saw it as something not sexual, I actualy do see it as something sexual, as I do kissing and sex among others. But that's not the question, the question is: Is it considered sex, masturbation, neither? and how does that all fir in to Christianity.
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