High IQ Christians

[timf]

I joined Mensa over 40 years ago. Over the years I have also hosted a SIG (special interest group in Mensa) for bible study in the town that I lived in. I rejoined Mensa last year and found that the group in general was much less tolerant of Christianity.

I suspect that as colleges transitioned into temples of the religion of secularism (the worship of man in general and self in particular), their influence would be disproportionately applied to those with higher IQs. I suspect a change over the years in the collegiate environment such that a Christian would first become cautious about declaring his faith until there was pressure to publicly renounce it. I saw one student with a T shirt declaring “Recovering Christian”.

Charles Murray (the guy who wrote The Bell Curve about IQ) observed that at the start of the 20th century IQ was fairly randomly distributed. Farmers, factory workers, shop keepers, and housewives all had fair representation. By the end of the century the economy had changed such that there were incentives for those with high IQs to be drawn to college.

I would like to think that many with a high IQ may have resisted the collegiate call to abandon their Christian faith and may even have grown in it. I thought to start this thread to see if there was enough interest to sustain it.

Subjects that might be worth exploring;

The difference between wisdom and intelligence
Aspergers and high IQ
Are faith and a high IQ mutually exclusive
Does IQ cause difficulty in a denominational world
Does IQ mean having answers or questions
How does Christian faith moderate or influence IQ

However, subjects do not have to be limited to IQ.

 

[Norbert L]

High IQ is equal opportunity considering some serial killers also score at that level. IQ does not equal being right in ones mind.

 

[Petros2015]

The difference between wisdom and intelligence
Aspergers and high IQ
Are faith and a high IQ mutually exclusive
Does IQ cause difficulty in a denominational world
Does IQ mean having answers or questions
How does Christian faith moderate or influence IQ

Hmm... well wisdom I think is to seek the will of God and then to do it. (or at least, to avoid doing the exact opposite as much as possible). Wisdom tends to involve humility. And the beginning of wisdom we are told is "the fear of God"

Intelligence is generally seen as problem solving ability or perhaps the ability to see relationships between concepts, to learn quickly and then to apply what is learned towards a goal. It can be applied toward whatever will one wishes. It can often be a source of pride - "I'm intelligent, smart, you are not, therefore I am correct." But, it does not need to be. Humans like to use ANYTHING as a source of pride anyway (physical prowess, attractiveness whatever). And if they can't find something legitimate they'll use the LACK of it for the source: "Proud to be stupid!"

Wisdom paired with Intelligence and humility would be a particularly powerful combination/force for good. The difference between Intelligence and Wisdom I think is that Wisdom represents what I would consider "Sanity".

Intelligence with no wisdom could be potentially lethal (either deliberately or accidentally) - as could just raw physical strength; doesn't need to be. Intelligence and ego are not equivalent. But if the slider bar for humility and empathy are taken to 0% and there is enough intelligence (or physical force) present for planning or "unrestrained creativity"... I've heard of Ego expressed as Edging God Out.

Well, "nature abhors a vacuum"

 

[Petros2015]

"How smart do you think you are, on a scale of 1 to Me?" ~Ego

 

[bèlla]

IQ without wisdom is meaningless. The mind perceives much and the majority is demonic. Without wisdom anchored in God we're clueless.

~bella

 

[Petros2015]

Does IQ cause difficulty in a denominational world

Only when the denominator is 0

 

[Petros2015]

I rejoined Mensa last year and found that the group in general was much less tolerant of Christianity.

You mean... Mensa members don't suffer Flat Earthers, global conspiracists and Anti-Vax because it's the Mark of the Beast(tm)? They don't get taken in by Q-Anon because clearly PersonX is fighting a shadowy cabal of satan-worshipping pizza-ordering pedophiles? You mean they recognize and don't get taken in and manipulated by GIGANTICALLY OBVIOUS con-artists?

I can't imagine why...

Christianity needs to make itself known for something else.
Discernment, compassion, humility, repentance, a love of truth, a rejection of hypocrisy...
Those were the things I expected.
Those are the things that are expected of me.
Those are the things that have always been expected.

Micah 6:8

He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.
And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God.

IQ is not incompatible with faith; they go perfectly well together.

So does idiocy.

 

[Blade]

We know things like.. I want that new car.. I claim it in Jesus name its mine!" yeah silly. OH but here in this case.. I guessing it WORKS.. so that "High IQ Christians" praise GOD.. hello its me! Claim that one hello! HAHA

 

[Hazelelponi]

I joined Mensa over 40 years ago. Over the years I have also hosted a SIG (special interest group in Mensa) for bible study in the town that I lived in. I rejoined Mensa last year and found that the group in general was much less tolerant of Christianity.

I suspect that as colleges transitioned into temples of the religion of secularism (the worship of man in general and self in particular), their influence would be disproportionately applied to those with higher IQs. I suspect a change over the years in the collegiate environment such that a Christian would first become cautious about declaring his faith until there was pressure to publicly renounce it. I saw one student with a T shirt declaring “Recovering Christian”.

Charles Murray (the guy who wrote The Bell Curve about IQ) observed that at the start of the 20th century IQ was fairly randomly distributed. Farmers, factory workers, shop keepers, and housewives all had fair representation. By the end of the century the economy had changed such that there were incentives for those with high IQs to be drawn to college.

I would like to think that many with a high IQ may have resisted the collegiate call to abandon their Christian faith and may even have grown in it. I thought to start this thread to see if there was enough interest to sustain it.

Subjects that might be worth exploring;

The difference between wisdom and intelligence
Aspergers and high IQ
Are faith and a high IQ mutually exclusive
Does IQ cause difficulty in a denominational world
Does IQ mean having answers or questions
How does Christian faith moderate or influence IQ

However, subjects do not have to be limited to IQ.

I would think in general there may not be a lot of interest titled that way. An expectation for a group more lacking in humility is one glaring reason.

For instance, I opened the thread just to see what it was about, only to find posts looking down on those perceived as holding a lesser intelligence, which is why I personally wouldn't be interested in such a group. There's enough people who look down their noses at others in life, don't need a church group joining that crowd....

"Do you see a person wise in their own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for them." Proverbs 26:12, Isaiah 5:21

I think wisdom is different than intelligence, an ignorant man can be wise, but wisdom is often more difficult for those of higher intelligence.

Sometimes intelligence is a barrier to faith, certainly something that must be overcome, as the Bible says:

1 Corinthians 1:18-19 "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”

When you know so much so easily, faith in Christ is confusingly simple. I would say intelligence hindered me.

Then when I finally understood the Gospel message, I found it just crazy simple... lol. I find it amazing that it took God Himself to open my eyes, but God made it that way, likely so no one could boast in anything but God. Certainly not me.

 

[topher694]

Christianity needs to make itself known for something else.

Christians at large are NOT known for such things. Only a vocal group of haters try to make it seem that way. You should stop helping them.

 

[Palmfever]

I’ve never found aptitude to provide adequate protection against self service, pride, greed, emotional infantilism, or just plain stupid. I’ve also had opportunity to run across an ample supply of educated fools. Wisdom is the proper application of knowledge. Depending on who we read we can find between 3 and 9 types of genius. What some may not be interested in, in school doesn’t necessarily determine a lack of aptitude. Some are social geniuses, music, etc. Aptitude is a tool, a gift, as is speed. We run into ditches when we presume credit for the gifts of God.

 

[timf]

I didn’t expect to encounter the negative reactions to this “club” when I made the post. I did cite my observation that I thought Satan’s course for the world seemed to divert a substantial percentage of people with high IQs away from Christianity through the influence of colleges. I don’t remember saying I thought people with a high IQ were “better”.

If a person who is 6‘3“ tall says he is 6‘ 3“ tall is he bragging or think he is better than others. I am 6‘ 3“ and once had a guy work for me that was 5‘ 4“. It always seemed that when we were in the file room I was looking through a drawer on the bottom and he was looking through a drawer on the top. We would often just look at each other and shake our heads.

IQ, like height, is biologically derived. Wisdom is available to any who ask in faith (James 1). Foolishness (the lack of wisdom) is condemned. The lack of intelligence is not condemned. The bible translates the Greek word idiotes as “unlearned” (1 Cor 14:23). It originally meant one who did not participate in the activity of the polis (city) because he was selfish and more interested in his own affairs. (The word idiosyncratic) still carries this individual component.

Over time the lack of participation was attributed to a lesser ability and subsequently came to be used of a common soldier rather than an officer or of a commoner as opposed to a magistrate.

I had hoped that by creating this “club” I might draw out others to share their observations and in the process provide many of us the opportunity to benefit from their observations, speculations, and even inquires. I would think with a ratio of lurker to poster of 100:1 that there is a lot of untapped value in those who might be enticed to share their thoughts and observations.

However comparisons to serial killers, accusations of lacking in humility, and other similar facile comments may be typical of Internet trolls but hardly typify the loving fellowship that is supposed to identify Christians. Falling short of even civility, such pollution of a social environment would drive away the very people I was desiring to draw out.

Considering that Paul rebuked the Corinthians for taking their disputes to be settled by unbelievers and asked if there were none with wisdom among themselves, it would seem that it is not uncommon for Christians to be oblivious to the benefits that could be obtained by recognizing that which could be of value.

If it turns out that this “club” cannot be used by those whose insights would have value, I will probably ask the moderators to delete it. However, if there are those who might have otherwise been inclined to share their thoughts, I would be more than happy to get a PM so that such a person would not have to risk a public harangue.

 

[Palmfever]

I don’t know that any here denounced intelligence. As you stated, it is a gift. Some genetic characteristics are beneficial to both the individual and society as a whole. Without those who inherently aspire to discover and improve the human condition society would falter.

“I suspect that as colleges transitioned into temples of the religion of secularism (the worship of man in general and self in particular), their influence would be disproportionately applied to those with higher Iqs.” And sandboxes of political activism.

“Are faith and a high IQ mutually exclusive?” No.

Caution flags tend to flutter in the winds when Christians are constantly bombarded in this politically charged environment with accusations of ignorance, intolerance, bigotry by the truly ignorant, those who have eyes which do not see, ears that do not hear. While scripture may state, “There are not many wise among you,” I believe you will find herein an ample supply of thoughtful and intelligent believers, and a few vociferous fools. “The fool has said in his heart, there is no God.”

Though you may not need my blessing, if I read you correctly, you are a man of faith with an above average IQ. If so God bless you and carry on. It is Him we live for and in, not the perceptions of men.


1 Thes, 4:11 “… make it your ambition to lead a quiet life: You should mind your own business and work with your hands, just as we told you…”

 

[LeGato]

I joined Mensa over 40 years ago. Over the years I have also hosted a SIG (special interest group in Mensa) for bible study in the town that I lived in. I rejoined Mensa last year and found that the group in general was much less tolerant of Christianity.

I suspect that as colleges transitioned into temples of the religion of secularism (the worship of man in general and self in particular), their influence would be disproportionately applied to those with higher IQs. I suspect a change over the years in the collegiate environment such that a Christian would first become cautious about declaring his faith until there was pressure to publicly renounce it. I saw one student with a T shirt declaring “Recovering Christian”.

Charles Murray (the guy who wrote The Bell Curve about IQ) observed that at the start of the 20th century IQ was fairly randomly distributed. Farmers, factory workers, shop keepers, and housewives all had fair representation. By the end of the century the economy had changed such that there were incentives for those with high IQs to be drawn to college.

I would like to think that many with a high IQ may have resisted the collegiate call to abandon their Christian faith and may even have grown in it. I thought to start this thread to see if there was enough interest to sustain it.

Subjects that might be worth exploring;

The difference between wisdom and intelligence
Aspergers and high IQ
Are faith and a high IQ mutually exclusive
Does IQ cause difficulty in a denominational world
Does IQ mean having answers or questions
How does Christian faith moderate or influence IQ

However, subjects do not have to be limited to IQ.

138 here, I could have joined Mensa, but who cares. I'm an idiot in all sorts of other ways.

 

[timf]

I always thought of this image when considering the name "The Cat" (To Catch a Thief - 1955)

I had found Mensa (40 years ago) to be a useful way for those of us who did not risk social skill development during adolescence to do so during our 20s and 30s.

My recent experience was to have found the group taking a radical political and social turn that I suspect keeps away many who could have benefited as I did.

I suspect that having a neurology that manifests as high IQ also is found with the variant that produces Aspergers or what is now called high functioning Autism Spectrum Disorder.

Just as being exceptionally tall or short has problems associated with it, the neurology that produces a high IQ can be sometimes difficult especially for younger people.

Having what can at times seem and avalanche of sensory data and processing tasks often places a person in a mode of "manual control" of their life. This can cause problems in social interaction such as being able to respond reflexively may not be an option.

Sometimes girls will have selective mutism because they are unable to be certain of what an appropriate response would be.

It was not my intention to address the subject of high IQ difficulties. I would be curious if you had turned your attention to questions of doctrine. I was raised in the LCMS. I now house church.

I try to avoid doctrinal discussions that have a high emotional content. I prefer being able to discuss doctrine in a way that examines how a particular point can be supported or refuted biblically and dispassionately.

 

[LeGato]

I would think in general there may not be a lot of interest titled that way. An expectation for a group more lacking in humility is one glaring reason.

For instance, I opened the thread just to see what it was about, only to find posts looking down on those perceived as holding a lesser intelligence, which is why I personally wouldn't be interested in such a group. There's enough people who look down their noses at others in life, don't need a church group joining that crowd....

"Do you see a person wise in their own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for them." Proverbs 26:12, Isaiah 5:21

I think wisdom is different than intelligence, an ignorant man can be wise, but wisdom is often more difficult for those of higher intelligence.

Sometimes intelligence is a barrier to faith, certainly something that must be overcome, as the Bible says:

1 Corinthians 1:18-19 "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”

When you know so much so easily, faith in Christ is confusingly simple. I would say intelligence hindered me.

Then when I finally understood the Gospel message, I found it just crazy simple... lol. I find it amazing that it took God Himself to open my eyes, but God made it that way, likely so no one could boast in anything but God. Certainly not me.

For instance, I opened the thread just to see what it was about, only to find posts looking down on those perceived as holding a lesser intelligence,

Which posts? That is not the impression that I got..

 

[LeGato]

I didn’t expect to encounter the negative reactions to this “club” when I made the post. I did cite my observation that I thought Satan’s course for the world seemed to divert a substantial percentage of people with high IQs away from Christianity through the influence of colleges. I don’t remember saying I thought people with a high IQ were “better”.

If a person who is 6‘3“ tall says he is 6‘ 3“ tall is he bragging or think he is better than others. I am 6‘ 3“ and once had a guy work for me that was 5‘ 4“. It always seemed that when we were in the file room I was looking through a drawer on the bottom and he was looking through a drawer on the top. We would often just look at each other and shake our heads.

IQ, like height, is biologically derived. Wisdom is available to any who ask in faith (James 1). Foolishness (the lack of wisdom) is condemned. The lack of intelligence is not condemned. The bible translates the Greek word idiotes as “unlearned” (1 Cor 14:23). It originally meant one who did not participate in the activity of the polis (city) because he was selfish and more interested in his own affairs. (The word idiosyncratic) still carries this individual component.

Over time the lack of participation was attributed to a lesser ability and subsequently came to be used of a common soldier rather than an officer or of a commoner as opposed to a magistrate.

I had hoped that by creating this “club” I might draw out others to share their observations and in the process provide many of us the opportunity to benefit from their observations, speculations, and even inquires. I would think with a ratio of lurker to poster of 100:1 that there is a lot of untapped value in those who might be enticed to share their thoughts and observations.

However comparisons to serial killers, accusations of lacking in humility, and other similar facile comments may be typical of Internet trolls but hardly typify the loving fellowship that is supposed to identify Christians. Falling short of even civility, such pollution of a social environment would drive away the very people I was desiring to draw out.

Considering that Paul rebuked the Corinthians for taking their disputes to be settled by unbelievers and asked if there were none with wisdom among themselves, it would seem that it is not uncommon for Christians to be oblivious to the benefits that could be obtained by recognizing that which could be of value.

If it turns out that this “club” cannot be used by those whose insights would have value, I will probably ask the moderators to delete it. However, if there are those who might have otherwise been inclined to share their thoughts, I would be more than happy to get a PM so that such a person would not have to risk a public harangue.

Keep the club. Nothing in the Bible that states we have to revel in being simple, or stupid. This thread could become a place of gratefulness to God for His gifts of intelligence.

 

[klutedavid]

I joined Mensa over 40 years ago. Over the years I have also hosted a SIG (special interest group in Mensa) for bible study in the town that I lived in. I rejoined Mensa last year and found that the group in general was much less tolerant of Christianity.

I suspect that as colleges transitioned into temples of the religion of secularism (the worship of man in general and self in particular), their influence would be disproportionately applied to those with higher IQs. I suspect a change over the years in the collegiate environment such that a Christian would first become cautious about declaring his faith until there was pressure to publicly renounce it. I saw one student with a T shirt declaring “Recovering Christian”.

Charles Murray (the guy who wrote The Bell Curve about IQ) observed that at the start of the 20th century IQ was fairly randomly distributed. Farmers, factory workers, shop keepers, and housewives all had fair representation. By the end of the century the economy had changed such that there were incentives for those with high IQs to be drawn to college.

I would like to think that many with a high IQ may have resisted the collegiate call to abandon their Christian faith and may even have grown in it. I thought to start this thread to see if there was enough interest to sustain it.

Subjects that might be worth exploring;

The difference between wisdom and intelligence
Aspergers and high IQ
Are faith and a high IQ mutually exclusive
Does IQ cause difficulty in a denominational world
Does IQ mean having answers or questions
How does Christian faith moderate or influence IQ

However, subjects do not have to be limited to IQ.

Too many big words. Me go elsewhere.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I joined Mensa over 40 years ago. Over the years I have also hosted a SIG (special interest group in Mensa) for bible study in the town that I lived in. I rejoined Mensa last year and found that the group in general was much less tolerant of Christianity.

I suspect that as colleges transitioned into temples of the religion of secularism (the worship of man in general and self in particular), their influence would be disproportionately applied to those with higher IQs. I suspect a change over the years in the collegiate environment such that a Christian would first become cautious about declaring his faith until there was pressure to publicly renounce it. I saw one student with a T shirt declaring “Recovering Christian”.

Charles Murray (the guy who wrote The Bell Curve about IQ) observed that at the start of the 20th century IQ was fairly randomly distributed. Farmers, factory workers, shop keepers, and housewives all had fair representation. By the end of the century the economy had changed such that there were incentives for those with high IQs to be drawn to college.

I would like to think that many with a high IQ may have resisted the collegiate call to abandon their Christian faith and may even have grown in it. I thought to start this thread to see if there was enough interest to sustain it.

Subjects that might be worth exploring;

The difference between wisdom and intelligence
Aspergers and high IQ
Are faith and a high IQ mutually exclusive
Does IQ cause difficulty in a denominational world
Does IQ mean having answers or questions
How does Christian faith moderate or influence IQ

However, subjects do not have to be limited to IQ.

When I was a teenager, I took a battery of tests given by a researcher who was studying the intersection between IQ and student development.

After the test results came in, he reported to me that among his test subjects, I was one 60.

And I just thought "Ka-Ching"!!

 

[LeGato]

When I was a teenager, I took a battery of tests given by a researcher who was studying the intersection between IQ and student development.

After the test results came in, he reported to me that among his test subjects, I was one 60.

And I just thought "Ka-Ching"!!

160? Surprised you aren't crazy...