hi! new here - and i need some help

[BenTsion]

Feus,
Shalom alecheim!
I believe you answered your own (rethorical) questions: you apologized for letting it off on us (no need to apologize, btw) - you see, you feel that you can do it here because we are all bound in the love of Yeshua, like one big family. Where else will you find complete strangers who will worry about you and pray for you if not inside Yeshua's church?

As for the 'why' a gentile should keep the law, there are two answers: santification, meaning getting a closer relationship to G-d. The Torah reflects G-d's character so following it is like following Yeshua`s footsteps. I think Rabbi Cohen has already done a great job illustrating that point, so I'm going to focus on the second point: QUALITY OF LIFE!

Please allow me to examplify:
What benefit is there in not eating the foods forbidden in Lev. 11? Well, let me tell you that Brazilians are avid pork and shrimp-eaters. I never liked shrimp, but I ate pork every day (before I restored my jewish roots), plus some other stuff G-d said not to. I had constant stomachaches that were really painful. I had them at least once a week! After setting my eating habits straight, I have not had ONE SINGLE stomachache anymore!

What benefit is there in keeping the Shabat? Well, before that, I was constantly stressed out! I suffered from depression and had very little physical energy. After I started keeping the Shabat, my stress levels decreased greatly, and I feel like I have more energy (both physical and spiritual - I say spiritual because dedicating an entire day just to be in His presence can do wonders to our relationship with Him).

What benefit is there in tithing? The times in which I wasn't faithful in my tithing were times of great financial struggle. But when I tithed, G-d blessed me at all times! If I wanted to buy a new shirt, I'd walk into the store the very day they were having a sale discount. Or I'd be given more time to pay a debt I owed, or my dad would give me some money to help me somehow. I can testify that those 90% were worth a lot more than the 100%. Why? G-d is faithful to His word!

I see many evangelicals here in Brazil going for those prosperity-oriented mega-pentecostal no-scripture-at-all-just-feelings kind of churches looking for financial miracles, healings, peace-of-mind, restoration of relationships, etc. If only they would turn to the Torah (and other scripture), they could find solution to most of their problems! But then again, that's not as popular as the emotion-oriented services.

In His Grace,
Ben Tsion

 

[feus]

Before, I go on to say anything further, I just want to thank you both for having patience with me. And yes, my day has improved, and not a little by your replies.

Rabbi Cohen, thank you for explaining the Noahide law to me (in whatever depth). I sort of realized that they are, in a sense, generalizations of the Torah, but surely there is some difference? Not saying you weren't saying that, but I mean, the Noahide laws can be followed without following all the laws in the Torah [which are applicable today] because they are generalizations. Is this making sense? You yourself said that one can be a Gentile and follow the Noahide laws and yet could not remain a Gentile and observe the Torah.

BenTsion, thank you for sharing.

Where else will you find complete strangers who will worry about you and pray for you if not inside Yeshua's church?

Haha! I know, and I'm very grateful for it.

And thanks both again for your encouraging messages. My day is going better now, yes, which I think I already mentioned. I understand what you are saying about the Torah - it can bring you closer to Him (which is definitely one of my main goals in life, I hope), and it can give you a better quality of life (or, if not always improve your life in terms of the world - think Job - give you a better outlook, or better resilience, or...you know). But you see, it's just, it's kinda hard when if you do this, all your family and friends will think you're crazy, and, perhaps, not really want to be your friends anymore. My friend Kate, who I mentioned - well, a rift has already grown between us simply because I am - was - I don't know - a Christian. And Nicole, another major friend of mine, well, her family is very Catholic so she resents all of Christianity (and Catholicism), I think, and so whenever we get into 'religious' situations, she always...pulls away, and she avoids me at school now. I don't know. I hope I'm not complaining, or gossiping (I don't think it is, really, since you don't even know them). I'm just...looking for guidance, I suppose. Which you have already supplied in generous heapings, btw

Well, I think I've gone and rambled enough in this post, so I'm going to finish it right here.

Or...perhaps not. DaTsar - questions for you coming up soon in another post. ^^

-feus

 

[feus]

DaTsar - hmm, I'm wondering if we should make a new thread for this?

Anyway, I've read the first bit of this (http://www.christianforums.com/t58735) and I'm slightly confused on the third resurrection. I had a sort of inkling there would be two, but I've never heard of a third before. So, according to you, there is the first (have a few questions on this, btw) where those who understand Him will rise and live for a thousand years (is this part the Kingdom of God, btw?), a second where those who have never heard of Him/didn't understand will have a chance, and a third where those who once knew Him but rejected Him will have a second chance? Oh! Wait! Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit - this is where the third resurrection comes in? But if they are never to be forgiven, does this mean that they just are resurrected and then die for good?

Also, I have some doubts about the Lazarus story. Yeshua used convential Jewish belief to bring a point across? I can't say that this story was a lie, because if I said that, I'd have to say all the parables are because none of them strictly happened, but...wouldn't it be rather...deceptive of him to use this story, if indeed this sort of thing wouldn't have happened? I mean, doesn't his using this story sort of confirm the Jewish belief at the time? Or am I being too literal?

And about Sheol and Gehanna - so, Sheol is basically the graveyard, where people are 'sleeping'? So, rather than a righteous person going straight to the pearly gates when they die, they go to Sheol like any other person, and are resurrected on Judgment Day? And Gehanna is like the soul-incinerator?

Oh, and about the first (and this is slightly off topic) - why, exactly, would a person be chosen to be among the firstfruits? Are you getting my question here? I mean, is this just Christians? (well, not all of them obviously, but you know) Or is it slightly more...open?


Hmm, those are my questions so far. I am sure I will continue to have more.

-feus

 

[Achichem]

G-d said not to. I had constant stomachaches that were really painful. I had them at least once a week! After setting my eating habits straight, I have not had ONE SINGLE stomachache anymore!

Same with me except my was shrimp,Crab and pork.
G-d is so wonderful!

 

[Achichem]

And Nicole, another major friend of mine, well, her family is very Catholic so she resents all of Christianity (and Catholicism), I think, and so whenever we get into 'religious' situations, she always...pulls away, and she avoids me at school now.

Well, I had this with my whole family (larger) who I was quite close to as well I got dis-connected from many of my old catholic friends. Lucky G-d blessed me by let my mother to see His wonderful ways, so I would not have to be completely without my old fellowship.
I do not know if it ever goes away, but a way seems to come up…so don’t worry yourself too much…Praying for ya…

I'm slightly confused on the third resurrection.

I know I copy that part, as I can not find too many people dealing with that part, the point I was trying by coping that to emphasis is that there are three classes, not that there are three resurrections, that certainly could be three and my church seem too think so, but the fact of the matter is that G-d is very vague on the subject, probably cause that not very important. I would suggest to you, as my self-do, understand the basic premise of what is going to happen, rather then what exactly is going to happen. That section does do a good job of illustrating section where the bible does tell us about the time so do be aware of that.
Anyways…
So just realise….
-The soul is not eternal after this death
-The punishment is second death
-The bible hints that all will get a chance (not a second chance)

where those who understand Him will rise and live for a thousand years (is this part the Kingdom of God, btw?),

Here on earth under messiah Yeshua rule, revelation then say G-d come down to earth(heaven on earth) and in that time only are the true…and something big happens to them. To fit all the people apparently, the sea and mountains are going away.

But if they are never to be forgiven, does this mean that they just are resurrected and then die for good?

G-d judges us all at one time, that is why they must die and then be brought back to life.
Also they were forgiven and then did something to cancel out the forgiveness.

Also, I have some doubts about the Lazarus story. Yeshua used conventional Jewish belief to bring a point across? I can't say that this story was a lie, because if I said that, I'd have to say all the parables are because none of them strictly happened, but...wouldn't it be rather...deceptive of him to use this story, if indeed this sort of thing wouldn't have happened? I mean, doesn't his using this story sort of confirm the Jewish belief at the time? Or am I being too literal?

Frankly I just don’t think the pagan theory could be right,
But here is a article on the subject maybe it can help

When we look at this account in light of other scriptures and in its historical context, it becomes apparent that this is an allegory, a familiar story of the age that Jesus used to point out a spiritual lesson to those who knew the law but did not keep it. It was never intended to be understood literally.
The Victor Bible Background Commentary, New Testament, in discussing this passage, explains that Jesus used contemporary Jewish thought about the afterlife to point out a spiritual lesson:
"Not only was Hades thought to be divided into two compartments, popular belief held that conversations could be held between persons in Gan Eden [the abode of the righteous] and Gehinnom [the abode of the unrighteous]. Jewish writings also picture the first as a verdant land with sweet waters welling up from numerous springs, while Gehinnom is not only a parched land, but the waters of the river that separated it from Gan Eden recede whenever the desperately thirsty wicked kneel and try to drink.
"... In Christ's story God was the beggar's only source of help, for the rich man was certainly not going to do a single thing for him! ... It is important to see this parable of Jesus as a continuation of His conflict with the Pharisees over riches. Christ had said, 'You cannot serve God and Money' (16:13). When the Pharisees sneered, Jesus responded, 'What is highly valued among men is detestable in God's sight' (16:15).
"There's no doubt that the Pharisees remained unconvinced ... And so Christ told a story intended to underline the importance of what He had just said.
"During this life the wealthy man would surely have been featured on the 1980s TV program, 'Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous.' The cameras would have focused on his marble mansion with its decorative wrought iron gates ... and the fabulous feasts he held for his important friends.
"As the TV equipment was taken into the rich man's home, a cameraman might have stumbled over the dying beggar, destitute and abandoned just outside the rich man's house ... Surely he was beneath the notice of the homeowner, who never gave a thought to the starving man just outside, though all Lazarus yearned for was just a crumb from the overladen tables ...
"But then, Jesus says, both men died. And suddenly their situations are reversed! Lazarus is by 'Abraham's side,' a phrase which pictures him reclining in the place of honor at a banquet that symbolizes eternal blessedness. But the rich man finds himself in torment, separated from the place of blessing by a 'great chasm' (16:26). Even though he begs for just one drop of water, Abraham sadly shakes his head. No relief is possible-or appropriate!
"... The rich man had received his good things, and had used them selfishly for his benefit alone ... This rich man's indifference to Lazarus showed how far his heart was from God and how far his path had strayed from God's ways. They were his riches, and he would use them only for himself ...
"And so Jesus' first point is driven home. You Pharisees simply cannot love God and Money. Love for Money is detestable to God, for you will surely be driven to make choices
in life which are hateful to Him ...
"But Jesus does not stop here. He portrays the rich man as appealing to Abraham to send Lazarus to warn his brothers, who live as selfishly as he did. Again Abraham refuses. They have 'Moses and the Prophets' (16:31), that is, the Scriptures. If they do not heed the Scriptures they will not respond should one come back from the dead ...
"In essence then Christ makes a stunning charge: the hardness and unwillingness of the Pharisees and teachers of the Law to Jesus' words reflect a hardness to the Word of
God itself, which these men pretend to honor ...
"This entire chapter calls us to realize that if we take this reality seriously, it will affect the way we view and use money, and the way we respond to the poor and the oppressed" (Lawrence Richards, QuickVerse software, 1992-1998).

In any cause it still doesn’t support heaven or hell...as I said this is too important, so I wouldn’t worry if you disagree, I even changed some of my opinions since writing the post, it is just important to be informed and versed, that you might not be charmed in to following ideas which lead people astray. That all…

And about Sheol and Gehanna - so, Sheol is basically the graveyard, where people are 'sleeping'? So, rather than a righteous person going straight to the pearly gates when they die, they go to Sheol like any other person, and are resurrected on Judgment Day? And Gehanna is like the soul-incinerator?

Yes, both metaphors one latterly being a dump the other for a place of great distance under(away from) the earth…but please note that ‘sleep’ is a metaphor, they are in fact dead, only remembered by G-d

Oh, and about the first (and this is slightly off topic) - why, exactly, would a person be chosen to be among the firstfruits? Are you getting my question here? I mean, is this just Christians? (well, not all of them obviously, but you know) Or is it slightly more...open?

I do not know to tell you the truth? Some I do know are David, Abraham, Job…and other contained in scriptures. but, other then that I just do not know?

Hmm, those are my questions so far. I am sure I will continue to have more

Don’t waste too much time, as I said G-d doesn’t put too much emphasis on this…he only tells us to know what is surly not, not so much what is…so be on the guard not the offensive.
If someone ever tells you must believe in heaven and hell…
I recommended if you don’t have scripture to say…
Do you believe in genesis? The they will say yes. Then ask then do not animals have the same souls as we do, are they to eternal? For as it is written…”Nephesh” is translated life in most bibles when in regards to animals, but that is the word for soul. Well “Chayah” is the word for life…


So know, that it is not us who elevate(ourselfs) to G-d, but G-d who is coming down to us.


Shalom,
Datsar,
Remember to focus on the life now, and be guarded from the deceiver and charming serpent.

 

[BenTsion]

Feus,
Shalom!

You yourself said that one can be a Gentile and follow the Noahide laws and yet could not remain a Gentile and observe the Torah.

You CAN observe the Torah and remain a Gentile. In fact, a Gentile doesn't need to become a Jew to become Messianic. I would only advocate conversion to Judaism if there is a higher goal here, such as moving to Israel and witnessing to other Jews. Besides that, what's wrong with being a Torah-observing Gentile (for the love of Yeshua, not for salvation)? Both Jew and Gentile are alike in the eyes of G-d.

But you see, it's just, it's kinda hard when if you do this, all your family and friends will think you're crazy, and, perhaps, not really want to be your friends anymore.

Ah! Welcome to the world of the followeres of Yeshua! Scripture said that we would be hated because of Him, but blessed are we when that happens! Feus, there's one thing Yeshua makes very clear to everyone who wants to follow Him (to this very day): the more you set your path straight before ADONAI, the more you meditate and feast upon His word, the more the Holy Spirit sanctifies you, the worse the persecution becomes. So, if persecution comes, it is a good sign, for the world persecuted the prophets, Yeshua, all the apostles long before you.

And about Sheol and Gehanna - so, Sheol is basically the graveyard, where people are 'sleeping'? So, rather than a righteous person going straight to the pearly gates when they die, they go to Sheol like any other person, and are resurrected on Judgment Day? And Gehanna is like the soul-incinerator?

Since no-one has ever come back to tell us what it is like on the other side , there are several different views on the whole Sheol, Gehenna and Paradise thing. Some say that when you die, you go to Sheol and stay there, unconscious, until the day of the resurrection. Most agree that Gehenna ('Hell') hasn't been inaugurated yet, and it is the final destination of those who oppose/do not accept/are indifferent to Yeshua, including Satan and his fallen angels.

I, however, tend to side more with the alternative view: no saint (meaning someone washed by the blood of the Lamb) goes to Sheol. They go to paradise, which can be seen as a wonderful waiting room, where they stay until the Messiah comes with His Bride to rule the Earth. Sheol would be only for those who didn't accept Him as their Lord and Savior. This view agrees with the other one as far as Gehenna is concerned.

There are probably several other views out there. I guess it all boils down to this: it's a very bad idea to die apart from Yeshua.

In the Messiah,
Ben Tsion

 

[feus]

DaTsar:

Well, I had this with my whole family (larger) who I was quite close to as well I got dis-connected from many of my old catholic friends. Lucky G-d blessed me by let my mother to see His wonderful ways, so I would not have to be completely without my old fellowship.
I do not know if it ever goes away, but a way seems to come up…so don’t worry yourself too much…Praying for ya…

I am glad for you (and your mother) that she saw ^^. And thank you.

I know I copy that part, as I can not find too many people dealing with that part, the point I was trying by coping that to emphasis is that there are three classes, not that there are three resurrections, that certainly could be three and my church seem too think so, but the fact of the matter is that G-d is very vague on the subject, probably cause that not very important. I would suggest to you, as my self-do, understand the basic premise of what is going to happen, rather then what exactly is going to happen.

Hmm, I had just never heard of a third resurrection before. btw, and this is sort of on the subject - I've always been curious - what exactly constitues blasphemy of the Holy Spirit?

On Lazarus:

Frankly I just don’t think the pagan theory could be right,

Yes, it seems that there is no real Scriptural support for that sort of heaven/hell. And in this story it is not to heaven and hell that Yeshua is referring, but to Sheol and the paradise BenTsion mentions in his post? I guess I'd never thought of it like that.

...as I said this is too important, so I wouldn’t worry if you disagree, I even changed some of my opinions since writing the post, it is just important to be informed and versed, that you might not be charmed in to following ideas which lead people astray. That all…

Yes, I know (thanks for the reminder, though, because sometimes the details eclipse the big picture). I am trying to begin to be slightly informed

Yes, both metaphors one latterly being a dump the other for a place of great distance under(away from) the earth…but please note that ‘sleep’ is a metaphor, they are in fact dead, only remembered by G-d

Well, but is it a bodily death, or are their souls actually dead at this point? If so, is there a difference between death of the soul in Sheol and death of the soul in Gehenna? Is the only difference that in Gehenna there will be no more resurrection? Just a small question.

If someone ever tells you must believe in heaven and hell…
I recommended if you don’t have scripture to say…
Do you believe in genesis? The they will say yes. Then ask then do not animals have the same souls as we do, are they to eternal? For as it is written…”Nephesh” is translated life in most bibles when in regards to animals, but that is the word for soul. Well “Chayah” is the word for life…

So know, that it is not us who elevate(ourselfs) to G-d, but G-d who is coming down to us.

Wait...I don't get it? Remember, I'm awfully slow...

BenTsion:

You CAN observe the Torah and remain a Gentile. In fact, a Gentile doesn't need to become a Jew to become Messianic. I would only advocate conversion to Judaism if there is a higher goal here, such as moving to Israel and witnessing to other Jews. Besides that, what's wrong with being a Torah-observing Gentile (for the love of Yeshua, not for salvation)? Both Jew and Gentile are alike in the eyes of G-d.

Well, I was referring to the bit in his post where he says Passover can't be celebrated by Gentiles...? Was I wrong there? Also, I do understand what you mean - there is certainly nothing wrong with Torah observance, as I have come to realize over the past few weeks.

I, however, tend to side more with the alternative view: no saint (meaning someone washed by the blood of the Lamb) goes to Sheol. They go to paradise, which can be seen as a wonderful waiting room, where they stay until the Messiah comes with His Bride to rule the Earth. Sheol would be only for those who didn't accept Him as their Lord and Savior. This view agrees with the other one as far as Gehenna is concerned.

Hmm. That's interesting to keep in mind. And I suppose it doesn't really make that much of a difference in the larger scheme of things!

There are probably several other views out there. I guess it all boils down to this: it's a very bad idea to die apart from Yeshua.

That's for sure - if you have the option of dying with him, anyway!

Thank you both for your insight and assistance! I can't stress enough how thankful I am for both.

-feus

 

[Achichem]

What exactly constitutes blasphemy of the Holy Spirit?
Well this is granted speculation, but it is my belief and understanding that the Holy Spirit of G-d is similar to a hand, so when he says His Spirit is within us, He is really saying He is working directly through us. So it is my belief that blasphemy is getting the Spirit, then always using your own spirit to override and misguide the actions of the Holy Spirit.

Of course there could also be many other things, the key thing is not to take as many people do the minimum requirements, for remember not everybody in the new kingdom is equal (in stature). Stay in the blood of cleanness, strive to be without sin, and be well to listen.

I am trying to begin to be slightly informed
Aren’t we all

Well, but is it a bodily death, or are their souls actually dead at this point? If so, is there a difference between death of the soul in Sheol and death of the soul in Gehenna? Is the only difference that in Gehenna there will be no more resurrection?
From my understanding I would say that are the same “physical” death, but you see the main difference is earthly death you remain in the memory of G-d, with Gehenna you are destroy and out of memory.So yes the only diffence is the resurrection

Of course, yeshua did say that only gehenna can only destroy your soul, of course soul also can also just mean life, and since in all raise, it all could just mean that.Anyways, I probably only serving to confuse you more, so just end by saying: I wouldn’t put any money on it being too different.

Resurrection is a great opportunity, and judging righteously is a very important part of G-d, and his Torah.

Wait...I don't get it?
I was explaining that if people want to say human soul are eternal, they then are saying animal soul are eternal, as God uses the same word for both. This is badly translated in most bible versions, but is the truth.

In the seocnd part was saying, G-d says He comign to us(revolation), why?Cause we can not go to him, right?he the peopel who avdcate with no faith an garenteed eternal soul they are really saying what I can not do in life I can do in death.

Keep in mind death is the result of sin, or sin (begets in itself) death...This logic is very ify.

 

[BenTsion]

Feus,
Shalom!

Yes, it seems that there is no real Scriptural support for that sort of heaven/hell. And in this story it is not to heaven and hell that Yeshua is referring, but to Sheol and the paradise BenTsion mentions in his post? I guess I'd never thought of it like that.

Do not forget that the story of the rich man and Lazarus was a parable, and must be understood as such. Yeshua was not trying to explain to us what happens in the afterlife. He was making a point about what really counts in His Kingdom. That parable certainly can't be used as a reference to our destinations.

If so, is there a difference between death of the soul in Sheol and death of the soul in Gehenna? Is the only difference that in Gehenna there will be no more resurrection?

Sort of... In Sheol, your body is dead but your spirit is not. Gehenna is the place of spiritual death. It will only be inaugurated at the Final Judgement.

Well, I was referring to the bit in his post where he says Passover can't be celebrated by Gentiles...?

By having been grafted into the olive tree of G-d, you are entitled to the SAME blessings that were once only for the jews. You can, and should, celebrate all the biblical feasts. They all point to Messiah, His earthly sacrifice, and His future coming. You should check out the Messianic interpretation of the meaning of the biblical feasts (within the perspective of Yeshua's second coming), it's too long to post here, but it's absolutely beautiful!

In the Messiah,
Ben Tsion

 

[feus]

DaTsar:

Well this is granted speculation, but it is my belief and understanding that the Holy Spirit of G-d is similar to a hand, so when he says His Spirit is within us, He is really saying He is working directly through us. So it is my belief that blasphemy is getting the Spirit, then always using your own spirit to override and misguide the actions of the Holy Spirit.

Sort of like...the two dogs? But, every time we ignore the Holy Spirit, does this mean we have committed an unforgivable sin? It's just, this has always been a point of curiosity for me, since for something to be unforgivable it must be pretty serious! But is what you are saying more like...rejecting the Spirit? I mean, because, I am sure there is a point in everyone's life where they suppress it just a bit (sometimes more).

But you are right - any absolute conclusion reached really is speculative. It seems to me that to reject the Spirit with full knowledge of what you are doing really seems the blasphemy. But of course, "it seems to me" isn't always necessarily true

I was explaining that if people want to say human soul are eternal, they then are saying animal soul are eternal, as God uses the same word for both. This is badly translated in most bible versions, but is the truth.

Ah! I see. I guess I have just never had it specifically argued to me that a soul exists forever, although hell certainly has.

In the seocnd part was saying, G-d says He comign to us(revolation), why?Cause we can not go to him, right?he the peopel who avdcate with no faith an garenteed eternal soul they are really saying what I can not do in life I can do in death.

Oh, ok, I get what you are saying. Took me a while, though.

BenTsion:

Do not forget that the story of the rich man and Lazarus was a parable, and must be understood as such. Yeshua was not trying to explain to us what happens in the afterlife. He was making a point about what really counts in His Kingdom. That parable certainly can't be used as a reference to our destinations.

Just like there won't really be nine bridesmaids? Understood


So souls don't die in Sheol? Does this mean the resurrections are only of the body, since something has to be dead to be resurrected, and since souls only die in Gehenna they won't be resurrected since that's the final destruction? I think that question made sense, in a roundabout sort of way. Also, if it is a bodily resurrection, does that mean we will be given "new" bodies, or that everyone will rear up out of their graves? I realize that this is probably a petty detail, but it's kind of interesting to think about. And I also realize it's unlikely the latter is strictly true.

By having been grafted into the olive tree of G-d, you are entitled to the SAME blessings that were once only for the jews.

Wait, isn't this changing the Law, though? Or are you saying that [believing] Gentiles are, in effect, Jews? Or, more that Jews and Gentiles are now equal...?

You can, and should, celebrate all the biblical feasts. They all point to Messiah, His earthly sacrifice, and His future coming. You should check out the Messianic interpretation of the meaning of the biblical feasts (within the perspective of Yeshua's second coming), it's too long to post here, but it's absolutely beautiful!

This is really an eye-opener! It's amazing how almost everyone I talk to thinks I'm an extreme fundamentalist or some such for saying that I don't really feel the need to celebrate Christmas. It's ironic how Christians place so much emphasis on something that originally had nothing to do with Yeshua, and yet neglect the holidays that were meant to be connected to him! Established by the Lord no less!

Also, I have a question on the Noahide laws for anyone who'd like to share - I've been reading up on these, but it seems there's no particular place in Scripture where they're actually given. Are they just a list of all commandments given to humankind in general? I think that's my only question on this.

-feus

 

[Achichem]

rejecting the Spirit? I mean, because, I am sure there is a point in everyone's life where they suppress it just a bit (sometimes more).

No, you can supress it, not feed it, just as you can comit sin, it a very specific type that like living in sin or liek youy said being aware and doing nothign with it....a hear of the spirt, not a doer of the spirit.
somthing like what satan did, have it and go against...that is what I am trying to say.

Ah! I see. I guess I have just never had it specifically argued to me that a soul exists forever, although hell certainly has.

It is funny how they do not even realize what they support when the bring forth such theorys...

 

[BenTsion]

Feus,
Shalom!

So souls don't die in Sheol?

Actually, Judaism tends to see the soul as a manifestation of the spirit in the body. Kinda like this: your spirit is electricity. Your body is like a light bulb. What happens when electricity goes through a light bulb: light (which would represent the soul).

I don't know exactly HOW spirits in Sheol are resurrected. I do know that us saints will receive a glorified body.

Wait, isn't this changing the Law, though?

Not at all! Read Romans 11 for clarification.

Also, I have a question on the Noahide laws for anyone who'd like to share - I've been reading up on these, but it seems there's no particular place in Scripture where they're actually given

The entire set of noahide laws are found nowhere in scripture. However, Acts 15 seems to allude to them. Anyway, if you bind together Acts 15 with what Yeshua taught you end up with the entire Noahide set of laws (not to mention the some additional real tough stuff like loving your enemies).

In Him,
Ben Tsion

 

[BenTsion]

What exactly constitutes blasphemy of the Holy Spirit?

Most Christian and Messianic scholars seem to agree that the unforgivable sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is an attitude, rather than a one time act.
What is Ruach HaKodesh (the Holy Spirit)'s main function: turning men's hearts to Yeshua. The unforgivable sin is when one RESISTS the regenerating work of Ruach HaKodesh, thus not attaining salvation.

In the Messiah,
Ben Tsion

 

[BenTsion]

Feus,
I've found an interesting article on the noahide laws:

hrubieszow.freeyellow.com/satanic.html

Hope it helps!

Ben Tsion

 

[feus]

No, you can supress it, not feed it, just as you can comit sin, it a very specific type that like living in sin or liek youy said being aware and doing nothign with it....a hear of the spirt, not a doer of the spirit.
somthing like what satan did, have it and go against...that is what I am trying to say.

Ah...yeah, because I mean, Satan was an angel and he rebelled knowing what he was doing (which was kind of stupid really). But are we talking about outright disobedience or just non-doing?

It is funny how they do not even realize what they support when the bring forth such theorys...

I know! Although, you know, I didn't realize it either! I will have to bring up the non-eternality (word? eternalness?) of the soul next time someone says: "Not believing in hell is just cowardice."


The light bulb-electricity thing a good analogy!...although it is rather a mystery: where does the electricity go when the bulb is crushed? I suppose that's just one of the things we don't really need to know


I did read Romans 11 - and it provided much clarification...in an I'm-still-thinking-about-it sort of way

Anyway, if you bind together Acts 15 with what Yeshua taught you end up with the entire Noahide set of laws (not to mention the some additional real tough stuff like loving your enemies).

lol! "real tough stuff" is an understatement... You talk about Yeshua and Acts, but the Noahide laws aren't an exclusively "christian" teaching, are they?

-feus

 

[feus]

Most Christian and Messianic scholars seem to agree that the unforgivable sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is an attitude, rather than a one time act.

Oh! That makes sense...

What is Ruach HaKodesh (the Holy Spirit)'s main function: turning men's hearts to Yeshua. The unforgivable sin is when one RESISTS the regenerating work of Ruach HaKodesh, thus not attaining salvation.

Oh! So really, blasphemy of the spirit is the actual ticket to Gehenna!

Oh and I went to that link...it was very interesting, to say the least. Not just about the Noahide laws really, but what was said about meat sold in grocery stores as well - I'm seriously thinking maybe vegetarianism is the way to go! Just to be on the safe side, really

-feus

 

[BenTsion]

You talk about Yeshua and Acts, but the Noahide laws aren't an exclusively "christian" teaching, are they?

Not at all! In fact, they are completely Jewish. HOWEVER, the main point of that article I referred to was that every one of the Noahide laws can be found in the NT.

I'm seriously thinking maybe vegetarianism is the way to go! Just to be on the safe side, really

I know this is a little off-topic, but I read at a medical magazine that there are certain substances which you only get from meat. Therefore, vegetarians aren't really as healthy as one would think.

Secret for good eating habits has already been disclosed: read the Torah! It is the 'instructions manual' that came from our Maker.

By the way, careful with the other articles on that site. They're quite heretical (and it distorts A LOT OF scripture) to say the very least. I didn't realize it until I actually read some of their other stuff. Still, they do make a good case for the scriptural-evidence of the Noahide laws.

In Him,
Ben Tsion

 

[feus]

I know this is a little off-topic, but I read at a medical magazine that there are certain substances which you only get from meat. Therefore, vegetarians aren't really as healthy as one would think.

Secret for good eating habits has already been disclosed: read the Torah! It is the 'instructions manual' that came from our Maker.

Hmm...yes, I've heard that often (there was a time when I wanted to be a vegetarian just because I loved animals). I see that the truth in it...but at the grocery store, should I walk up to the clerk and say: "Yes, hello, do you happen to know whether the animal that provided this meat was dead or alive at the time they started carving it up?"

Can you imagine? So what would one do with this?

Oh, and it wasn't off topic, as whatever topic we had seems to have disintegrated . btw (and this is even farther off topic), do you happen to know of any really good Christmas links (or books, even) - that discuss the origins of xmas traditions and customs? I have to write a story on it, you see, and the sites I've been to are either "xmas is pagan-evil!" or else they gloss over some of the more...um, objectionable details. I mean to say, I haven't found a happy medium, you know? Asking just in case...

-feus

 

[Achichem]

that discuss the origins of xmas traditions and customs? I have to write a story on it, you see, and the sites I've been to are either "xmas is pagan-evil!" or else they gloss over some of the more...um, objectionable details. I mean to say, I haven't found a happy medium, you know? Asking just in case...

-feus

Well I know you have probley looked at it at this booklet section already,as I refer you to them all the time,and they just talk about it paganness, but just in case.

Y-mas traditions:
http://www.ucg.org/booklets/HH/christmasuntoldstory.htm
the whole booklet: holidays or holy days:
http://www.ucg.org/booklets/HH/

It also quotes from some books, which may be better, if it does not cover it.

 

[BenTsion]

Feus,
It'd be kinda hard to carve a living ox, wouldn't it?
Can't say the same about chicken though. LOL

Anyway, I tend to think of this mitzvah as more related to the person PREPARING the food than the person eating. Do not forget that at that time people killed their own animals to eat. I guess the principle behind this mitzvah is that G-d doesn't want animals to suffer any acts of cruelty. If your local butcher dismembers living animals, then HE is the one who's going to answer to G-d about that. Of course we cannot condone such a brutality, but, my point is, if we start worrying about each and every little thing people do to food before it reaches our table, or to money before it reaches our pockets, and so on, then we'll end up going bananas.

I mean, what if the apple you're eating comes from an apple tree that's been fertilized by a bunch of corpses of little kids that were brutally murdered by a serial killer and buried near that very tree? You see what I mean? If we go down the paths of paranoia, there's no end to it.

In Messiah,
Ben Tsion