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brnagain

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This is my third post. I guess I should have posted here first!

My husband and I visited our first SDA church today and really felt at home.

Now we need to learn more about Seventh Day Adventists. I went into Adventist today website and printed out the article "Progressive and Traditional Aventists Examined" as was mentioned elsewhere on this board. Also, I need to learn about the tradition of "sabbath Saturday."

Well, pleased to meet you all!
 
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OntheDL

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This is my third post. I guess I should have posted here first!

My husband and I visited our first SDA church today and really felt at home.

Now we need to learn more about Seventh Day Adventists. I went into Adventist today website and printed out the article "Progressive and Traditional Aventists Examined" as was mentioned elsewhere on this board. Also, I need to learn about the tradition of "sabbath Saturday."

Well, pleased to meet you all!

Hi welcome!

Enjoy your stay here. We'll do our best to explain what we believe in biblical perspectives.

God bless!
 
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Jon0388g

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This is my third post. I guess I should have posted here first!

My husband and I visited our first SDA church today and really felt at home.

Now we need to learn more about Seventh Day Adventists. I went into Adventist today website and printed out the article "Progressive and Traditional Aventists Examined" as was mentioned elsewhere on this board. Also, I need to learn about the tradition of "sabbath Saturday."

Well, pleased to meet you all!

Hi! I'm new to the forum myself, but not the church. It seems like there are a lot of knowledgeable, friendly people here, and I'm sure they'll be happy to answer all of your questions! I'm glad you enjoyed your visit to an SDA church.

Hi Brnagain and Kimmik,

Glad to have you both with us!

Jon:)
 
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brnagain

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Hi everyone,

Laine, to be honest, after the pastor at the last church I was regularly attending starting making fun of vegetarians (which I am) during sermon, and I truly mean the way he did it was sarcastic and not just joking, I asked myself if there were any churches around where vegetarianism could be an acceptable practice and not just thought of as New Age craziness.

So my research led me to Seventh Day Adventists. It may be a shallow reason, but what I didn't bargain for in the process was the whole wonderful package that came with it.

I might add that the pastor of my old church (considered a somewhat "mega" church in my area) was suspended and has since returned, more mellow and accepting of a lot of things I'm sure, but still it was a total turn-off to me.
 
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TrustAndObey

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Hi everyone,

Laine, to be honest, after the pastor at the last church I was regularly attending starting making fun of vegetarians (which I am) during sermon, and I truly mean the way he did it was sarcastic and not just joking, I asked myself if there were any churches around where vegetarianism could be an acceptable practice and not just thought of as New Age craziness.

So my research led me to Seventh Day Adventists. It may be a shallow reason, but what I didn't bargain for in the process was the whole wonderful package that came with it.

God uses reasons that He knows we'll listen to as an individual, amen? That same sermon may not have affected another person in that congregation, and they may have even agreed with what the pastor said, but God knew it would affect you.

Brnagain said:
I might add that the pastor of my old church (considered a somewhat "mega" church in my area) was suspended and has since returned, more mellow and accepting of a lot of things I'm sure, but still it was a total turn-off to me.

There's a church in my area that has a McDonald's in it. There's lots of mega churches popping up around here because Wal-Mart money abounds. There's even a church here that you have to pay to get in. I'm not kidding.

My entire family was marched out of the Baptist church when I was about 11 because the pastor said that tithing 10% was money we should pay from our incomes BEFORE taxes.

That was enough for my mom, let me tell you. He hit her where it hurts...with money. I grew up poor and our pastor....wasn't. He drove a fancy car, had a nice home, etc.

We never set foot in there again. Not only because mom felt that our "increase" to tithe from was of money we actually RECEIVED, but because there was a lot of hypocrisy in my childhood church.

The biggest reason my mom marched us out of there that day was because the pastor said "I want my congregation to know........" (that's when he said everyone needed to tithe more).

He called it "his" congregation, not God's.

That went all over my mom.

Others there just started paying more or whatever, but God used that sermon to get to my mom for sure.
 
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TrustAndObey

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Regarding sabbath, yes can you please educate me about Saturday sabbath. Why do SDA hold sabbath on Saturday when all other churches consider Sunday?

Also, is it considered a practice or the law? This last question is very important to me. Thanks in advance for anyone's help!

It's the law of love. The Sabbath commandment is the blessing commandment.

And Brnagain, PLEASE feel free to ask me further questions if you don't agree with something I say. I've only been Adventist for 2 1/2 years so I do know the arguments against Sabbath....I used them all myself.

When I read the bible I wasn't any religion, but I came to an understanding of Sabbath that I hadn't been asked to even consider before. That led me to the Adventist church as well.

What happens to us when we die (the biblical account of that subject) and the Sabbath made me choose the Adventist church. Like you, I wasn't expecting all the bonuses that come with it! :)

What we call Saturday is the seventh day of the week. The fourth commandment says to keep the Sabbath (seventh) day holy. God blessed and sanctified the seventh day. Nowhere in scripture is Sunday (the first day) ever blessed or substituted for the Lord's Day.

Christ, our example, went into the synagogue to read (teach) on the Sabbath. He also had to fight with the Pharisees and rebuked them several times for accusing Him of "breaking" that commandment. In other words, it was important to Him and it's important to us to follow His example of obedience.

Adventists don't try to keep the commandments as a way to earn our salvation, because we know that just won't happen. We keep them in order to show God that we love Him BACK.

1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

I'm a rule-breaker, and have been my whole life, but there were verses in scripture that I just couldn't ignore when I was reading it. Trust me, I grew up being told we were under grace and could do anything we wanted, and that's why Christ died.

To use one of my friend's classic lines "Christ did not die so we could party like it's 1999!"

Scripture says to knowingly go and break a commandment is crucifying Christ all over again. Now that's sad and a mental image I always think of when I'm tempted.

But I do break the commandments sometimes. I'm a horrible sinner. However, I know that I can confess my transgressions and He will forgive me (even though sometimes it doesn't always FEEL like I'm forgiven, I know I am).

I heard this verse a brazilian (ha) times when I was growing up:

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

They stopped there though, and never quoted the very next one:

15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Sin is the transgression of the law. Being under grace doesn't mean you can break the law or that the law was done away with. Grace doesn't negate the law.

Back to the Sabbath...it is a sign between God and His people that we know He's the Creator. Israel used to be His chosen people, but we have been drafted in. We are His people.

The Pharisees accused Christ of breaking the Sabbath commandment and He answered and said "it is lawful to do well on the Sabbath".

So while most of Christianity agrees with the Pharisees on this subject, we have to always look to Christ for the answer here. We can't break the law and be lawful at the same time. He never sinned.

I'm not sure how in depth you're wanting me to go Brnagain, and I don't want to overwhelm you with stuff either. I just wanted you to know, from my perspective, what really magnified the Sabbath for me personally when I read the bible.

I saw Christ rebuking the Pharisees for putting unbiblical restrictions on God's holy day, and I thought "hey, why is He fighting so much for something that gets nailed to the cross just a short time later?" It didn't make sense. It didn't make sense because the Sabbath wasn't nailed to the cross.

Sabbath really is a blessing, and a blessing that I don't deserve, but I definitely NEED. I have grown so much in my relationship with God since I started obeying that command in my life.

The whole world wonders after the beast. For everything God has, satan has a counterfeit. The only day God blessed and commanded us to set aside is the seventh day.

I can get into more detail if you want. I just don't want to make you sorry you asked!!! :)
 
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brnagain

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I just can't thank you enough for your answer. My husband and I read it together. Yes, PLEASE go into depth and give more information if you can.

We have really been conditioned to believe Sunday is holy day. And I should know better. I was born a Jew (though never religious) and Saturday was Sabbath day, but not being a true person of faith, it was just another day to me.

In the mid 90's I accepted Christ as Lord as Savior, consider myself Christian (no Jews for Jesus for me - either you're Christian or you're not!, although I respect my heritage)...and I never looked back.

So you see, I've been conditioned by the churches I've attended to believe Sunday is Holy day.

I really need to get into the Bible and start reading about this. I'm ashamed I haven't already!

Thank you so much for your answer. It is so helpful to us, and yes, please don't hesitate to post more information if you have time to do so.

Thank you again! We are leaving for Bible Study and Church soon...on a SATURDAY! Who would've thunk?
 
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TrustAndObey

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I just can't thank you enough for your answer. My husband and I read it together. Yes, PLEASE go into depth and give more information if you can.

We have really been conditioned to believe Sunday is holy day. And I should know better. I was born a Jew (though never religious) and Saturday was Sabbath day, but not being a true person of faith, it was just another day to me.

In the mid 90's I accepted Christ as Lord as Savior, consider myself Christian (no Jews for Jesus for me - either you're Christian or you're not!, although I respect my heritage)...and I never looked back.

So you see, I've been conditioned by the churches I've attended to believe Sunday is Holy day.

I really need to get into the Bible and start reading about this. I'm ashamed I haven't already!

Thank you so much for your answer. It is so helpful to us, and yes, please don't hesitate to post more information if you have time to do so.

Thank you again! We are leaving for Bible Study and Church soon...on a SATURDAY! Who would've thunk?

Hi again (and HI Brnagain's hubby too!), I'm glad that you want to know more. Once we get a small drink of truth, it seems like we just can't get enough knowledge as Christians, amen?!

My last post was just kind of to let you know that we aren't trying to earn our salvation. That cannot be done. Scripture does give us a very good picture of why we should obey God though, and that's what Adventists try to do.

But hallelujah, I wholeheartedly agree with you, pick up the bible and study it for yourself! It's fascinating stuff for sure and you will NEVER regret that decision, I promise!

I'm almost jealous Brnagain, because there's nothing in the world that can replace what it's like when the Holy Spirit guides you through scripture and your eyes are opened up to a whole new world for the first time. It's life-altering. From there your thirst is just going to get more intense.

Before I say anything else, I'm going to say a prayer that I say the right things and that the Holy Spirit guides me as I speak with you.

The first thing that struck me when I read the bible for myself was that Noah took more than two of each animal onto the ark. He took more of the "clean" animals than the unclean and I was totally puzzled by what a CLEAN animal was. In my mind, I was thinking of cats or other animals that bathe constantly. HA!!!

We don't get to know what the clean and unclean animals are until Leviticus 11, but Noah knew way back in Genesis.

Which brings me to my next point. Noah talked directly with God and so did Abraham.

What you'll hear from the bulk of Christianity is that the Sabbath was instituted and given to the Jews and that it was never a command before Mt. Sinai.

That's just simply not true.

God blessed and sanctified the seventh day at creation. Long before a Jew even existed, the seventh day was holy.

Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it He had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Abraham obeyed God's commandments before Moses ever went up on Mt. Sinai.

Genesis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

The word "statutes" is never mentioned in scripture before that verse. In fact, laws and commandments of God aren't mentioned before that verse either, but we know Abraham obeyed them all.

Obviously there are things that Abraham and Noah had FIRSTHAND knowledge of from speaking with God, that we just don't know about because they aren't in scripture. But we still know they existed.

In fact, in Exodus 16 God instructs Moses to tell the children of Israel (after being rescued from Egypt) that they must keep the seventh day holy. That was before Mt. Sinai. Then God says:

Exodus 16:8 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?

Again, Moses hasn't even gone up to Mt. Sinai at that point to get the laws written on stone, but we know they existed before that and that certain people knew about them.

In Exodus 20 you'll read the account of Moses going up to Mt. Sinai.

Here's when we get to hear the command:

Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

10 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Why is the Sabbath day important to God's people?

It's a sign between God and His people that we know He's our Creator and Lord.

Exodus 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

Modern-day Christianity tries to tell us that the Lord is speaking only to the children of Israel, but we learn in the New Testament that we are drafted in and are heirs to the promise. We are the seed of Abraham, God's chosen people.

I'm glad that you aren't ashamed of your heritage! You shouldn't be. We are all spiritual Israel.

And don't let people tell you that Israel is a country either.....Genesis 32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

Jacob became Israel after he wrestled with God all night. It's a person, not a country.

And you brought up a very good point earlier that I wanted to comment on. You mentioned that you were born a Jew but you are now a Christian. Amen!!!

Most modern-day teachings say that Jesus kept the Sabbath only because He was a Jew.

If you ask them what/who a Christian is, they'll tell you that it's anyone that accepts Christ as their Lord and Savior (amen, true). That definition definitely fits Mary, Christ's mother, right?

She accepted Christ as the promised Messiah (how could she NOT?) and followed Him.

So consider this verse:

Luke 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

Christ had already died on the cross. He was in the tomb, dead.

If the Sabbath had been nailed to the cross, why would Mary (a CHRISTIAN at this point just like you are now, even though born Jewish) continue to keep it?

Paul keeps the Sabbath throughout the book of Acts, Hebrews 4 discusses how there remains a Sabbath for the people of God, etc.

You'll hear the Sabbath isn't part of the new covenant. That really isn't true either.

The new covenant is God writing His laws on our HEARTS. The laws didn't go anywhere.

It's really an obvious thing that God's people, us, are to keep the Sabbath commandment....but satan's counterfeit is Sunday.

I'm going to go ahead and post this since it's getting long and I'll go into a little more detail about Sunday in my next post, okay?
 
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Jon0388g

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I'm almost jealous Brnagain, because there's nothing in the world that can replace what it's like when the Holy Spirit guides you through scripture and your eyes are opened up to a whole new world for the first time. It's life-altering. From there your thirst is just going to get more intense.

Same here brnagain! I was blessed to be born into the SDA church, but for me growing up in it, I was sort of "numb" to what was going on around me. Week in week out I didn't really pay any attention in church, the Sabbath was just the norm, etc etc. But we moved churches at a certain point in my life, and a new Pastor. This man practically opened my eyes, and changed my life!


I hope you don't mind me jumping in to post just a few comments in addition to TrustandObey (who is doing a fine job as usual:) ) since this topic is practically "new" to me aswell, and I absolutely love my Sabbath!!


Have you ever wondered why the Sabbath commandment begins with the word "Remember...."? Yet the whole world has forgotten!!

The Sabbath commandment is the peculiar command of the ten. It is the one most people have an issue with. The Ten Commandments are just an explicit version of the Royal Law; Love to God (the first four) and Love to man (the last six). God's whole government is based on love. Everyone has no problems at all with thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt honour thy mother and father, etc etc, but, when we get to the fourth - - - - - the red lights come on, and we often hear "But that command was done away with!" Lol!

That is why God calls the Sabbath a "sign." It is a sign to the world and to the heavens who are truly obedient to God's law. As TrustandObey quoted, if we love God, we will keep His commmandments. The Sabbath command is the one of the ten that truly tests who we obey.


We read in Isaiah 58:13-14:

"If because of the Sabbath, you turn your foot from doing your own pleasure on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy day of the Lord honourable, and honour it, desisting from your own ways, from seeking your own pleasure and speaking your own word, then you will take delight in the Lord, and I will make you ride on the heights of the earth; and I will feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father, for the mouth of the Lord has spoken."

People often call the Sabbath a burden, an unnecessary trouble that Christ has done away with. I quote this verse when that is said. The Sabbath is supposed to be our delight! After six days of tiresome work throughout the week, what better way to end it then to rest with our Creator who sanctifies us?

Also, another favourite verse of mine is found again in Isaiah:

" "For just as the new heavens and the new earth which I make will endure before Me," declares the Lord, "So your offspring and your name will endure. And it shall be from new moon to new moon, from Sabbath to Sabbath, all mankind will come to bow down before Me," says the Lord." Isaiah 66:22-23

God Himself states that we will all come to bow before Him, Sabbath after Sabbath, in heaven! How awesome will that be?!



It gets even more beautiful than that, and a lot more exciting. TrustandObey I think is about to post on Sunday-observance, the seal of the Sabbath, etc which is going to blow you away. I pray that God is with you and guiding you on your journey!


Jon
 
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TrustAndObey

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Okay, on to Sunday......

What most Christians will tell you is that they go to church on Sunday because Christ rose from the grave on a Sunday.

That's it, that's your explanation.

It's backtracking though. If satan had changed the counterfeit day to Friday, they'd say they go to church on Fridays because Christ died for us on a Friday (which would make a lot more sense than their explanation about Sunday).

I never negate the fact that Christ did rise on a Sunday, but that didn't make the DAY holy. The resurrection itself was a miracle and holy, but that doesn't really have anything to do with the day it happened on.

So the big explanation is that Sunday of every week is a kind of "mini" Easter.

Nowhere in scripture will you find where God blessed the 1st day or where the seventh day somehow became UNholy.

Another argument is that the Sabbath was nailed to the cross.

Here's where they get that idea:

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

I could go on for days about those verses (ask anyone here....HA).

First of all, I'll just point out the obvious. If the Sabbath was nailed to the cross, so was food and drink.

The verses are saying not to let another MAN judge you for those things. Corporal punishment (stoning each other) was nailed to the cross, not God's commandment. Jesus is our Judge....we are not each other's judges anymore.

God's commandments are in the ark of the covenant in heaven and He didn't chisel out a big scratch mark through just one.
egad.gif


But more importantly, the "handwriting of ordinances which were against us" is not referring to God's commandments written on stone.

There were different sets of laws given in scripture, and some were added because of transgressions. As I mentioned earlier, transgression is breaking the law, so there were laws way before the ones added later. They had to be broken before the new ones could be added.

Here is every verse in scripture concerning Sunday:

Mat 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

Mar 16:2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.

Mar 16:9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

Luke 24:1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.

John 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

John 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

1 Corinthians 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

That's all of them.

Not one of those says that the first day is holy in any way.

In fact, the first 6 I posted are talking about it being the day He rose from the grave and that's the only reason it's mentioned.

The last two are where people add a little more than what the verses actually say.

For instance, Acts 20:7 says the disciples came together to break bread, so I've heard other Christians say that HAS to be talking about communion at church. In reality, scripture says they broke bread every single day. It's talking about eating....not communion.

1 Corinthians 16:2 is talking about gathering food together because there was a famine in the land. So they were WORKING on that day.

I can't go into exact specifics here (it's against the rules) but a certain church decided that they had the authority to say that Sunday is holy. That's the REAL reason so many denominations follow the counterfeit, then they scramble to figure out WHY they believe it by twisting those verses I just gave you.

That's why, my sister, I really am encouraging you to pick up the bible. We go around (myself included) expecting our religious leaders to tell us the truth, but it's right there in front of us in His Word. Don't take anyone's word for it, including mine, seriously read it for yourself.

Sunday is a counterfeit for God's true holy day.

Oh....and you'll also hear people refer to Sunday as the Lord's Day.

This one is funny because there's only one verse that mentions the Lord's Day.

Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

Does that verse mention what day of the WEEK it was? John the Revelator was a Jew (well, Christian by that point) so the Lord's day would be the Sabbath.

So there you have it. Sunday isn't holy, the whole world wonders after the beast, and a huge percentage of Christians haven't read the bible themselves and just rely on others to tell them what it says. They don't have a clue why they go to church on Sunday and work on Saturdays.

Hsa 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
 
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TrustAndObey

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I just noticed I sound a little sarcastic in some of the things I said up there. I sure didn't mean to.

I just remember using some of those same arguments when I was a Sunday keeper, so I guess I'm scoffing at my own ignorance for witnessing to those things when I hadn't read the bible myself and really didn't have a clue what I was talking about.

But in all honesty, my childhood church taught that we SHOULD obey the Sabbath. They just told me that SUNDAY was the seventh day.
 
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tinkerbell

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Hey guys - thanks for all your great comments. I thought I'd jump in here too. You all are doing a wonderful job!

First of all I want to say welcome to brnagain! It's good to have you on the sight and I pray that God will be with you as you seek to find a new church.

I don't know if this is the kind of information you're looking for, but I pulled the official Seventh-Day Adventist Statement of the General Conference website. There are lots of verses listed below the statement that you might want to check into.

Also I'm willing to answer any questions as well. While I don't claim to know all there is to know about Adventisim I grew up in the Adventist church, so I do know a few things :) I hope this helps!

20. Sabbath:
The beneficent Creator, after the six days of Creation, rested on the seventh day and instituted the Sabbath for all people as a memorial of Creation. The fourth commandment of God's unchangeable law requires the observance of this seventh-day Sabbath as the day of rest, worship, and ministry in harmony with the teaching and practice of Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath. The Sabbath is a day of delightful communion with God and one another. It is a symbol of our redemption in Christ, a sign of our sanctification, a token of our allegiance, and a foretaste of our eternal future in God's kingdom. The Sabbath is God's perpetual sign of His eternal covenant between Him and His people. Joyful observance of this holy time from evening to evening, sunset to sunset, is a celebration of God's creative and redemptive acts. (Gen. 2:1-3; Ex. 20:8-11; Luke 4:16; Isa. 56:5, 6; 58:13, 14; Matt. 12:1-12; Ex. 31:13-17; Eze. 20:12, 20; Deut. 5:12-15; Heb. 4:1-11; Lev. 23:32; Mark 1:32.)

*Tink*
 
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