Hi I was wanting to know what SDA believed on the sabbath and eating meat.

[Jon0388g]

Polluting the body "temple" is not a sin?

No, it isn't, and the church does not teach that it is. You may believe so, however, and I don't question your freedom to believe it.

Hi AzA, are you sure about this?

"It is just as much sin to violate the laws of our being as to break one of the Ten Commandments, for we cannot do either without breaking God's law. We cannot love the Lord with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength while we are loving our appetites, our tastes, a great deal better than we love the Lord." Testimonies for the Church, Vol. 2 p70


"God has given you light and knowledge, which you have professed to believe came direct from Him, instructing you to deny appetite. You know that the use of swine's flesh is contrary to His express command, given not because He wished to especially show His authority, but because it would be injurious to those who should eat it. Its use would cause the blood to become impure, so that scrofula and other humors would corrupt the system, and the whole organism would suffer. Especially would the fine, sensitive nerves of the brain become enfeebled and so beclouded that sacred things would not be discerned, but be placed upon the low level with common things. Light showing that disease is caused by using this gross article of food has come just as soon as God's people could bear it. Have you heeded the light?" Testimonies for the Church, Vol. 2 p96




Jon

 

[AzA]

By saying this are you advocating alcohol in moderation?

No, I am not.

 

[Jim Larmore]

The Bible tells us in James 4:17 that if we know to do good and do it not then to him it is sin. This tells us that we can sin and go against God's will outside of the ten commandments. This means that if God is convicting you that you should not eat unclean meat and you still do then it becomes sin to you. The Bible also tells us that our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit and that we are not our own but belong to God the Creator. So it only makes sense that if our bodies are temples where God wants to dwell that we shouldn't even consider polluting it. It also says that those who destroy their bodies will be in danger of being destroyed by the God who made it in the first place.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[AzA]

I'm curious as to what it tells you?

I have distinguished between various classes of reason for doing or not doing X Y Z. It is a distinction the church and its public liberty organizations have consistently made since abolition and Prohibition, and still make today in several arenas.
That you have concluded that "smoking is ok" or that I have suggested that "smoking is ok" tells me that you do not understand what I have said or what the church's health ministries department, civil liberties groups, or president currently teach on this issue. Finding that one reason does not fit all cases is not the same as finding that no reasons fit any case.

 

[mva1985]

Thanks for the quotes Jon!!!

Hi AzA, are you sure about this?

"It is just as much sin to violate the laws of our being as to break one of the Ten Commandments, for we cannot do either without breaking God's law. We cannot love the Lord with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength while we are loving our appetites, our tastes, a great deal better than we love the Lord." Testimonies for the Church, Vol. 2 p70


"God has given you light and knowledge, which you have professed to believe came direct from Him, instructing you to deny appetite. You know that the use of swine's flesh is contrary to His express command, given not because He wished to especially show His authority, but because it would be injurious to those who should eat it. Its use would cause the blood to become impure, so that scrofula and other humors would corrupt the system, and the whole organism would suffer. Especially would the fine, sensitive nerves of the brain become enfeebled and so beclouded that sacred things would not be discerned, but be placed upon the low level with common things. Light showing that disease is caused by using this gross article of food has come just as soon as God's people could bear it. Have you heeded the light?" Testimonies for the Church, Vol. 2 p96




Jon

 

[mva1985]

+1

The Bible tells us in James 4:17 that if we know to do good and do it not then to him it is sin. This tells us that we can sin and go against God's will outside of the ten commandments. This means that if God is convicting you that you should not eat unclean meat and you still do then it becomes sin to you. The Bible also tells us that our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit and that we are not our own but belong to God the Creator. So it only makes sense that if our bodies are temples where God wants to dwell that we shouldn't even consider polluting it. It also says that those who destroy their bodies will be in danger of being destroyed by the God who made it in the first place.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[mva1985]

I've been an Adventist many years I can assure you I know what we teach on various health related issues. I just wanted to see what you believed.

I have distinguished between various classes of reason for doing or not doing X Y Z. It is a distinction the church and its public liberty organizations have consistently made since abolition and Prohibition, and still make today in several arenas.
That you have concluded that "smoking is ok" or that I have suggested that "smoking is ok" tells me that you do not understand what I have said or what the church's health ministries department, civil liberties groups, or president currently teach on this issue. Finding that one reason does not fit all cases is not the same as finding that no reasons fit any case.

 

[AzA]

At least two of you are now in the interesting position of implying that the GC Health Ministries Department teaches against the doctrines of the church and the laws of God, and that the GC president teaches young people to do likewise. I quoted from his office earlier, and he deferred to the Health Ministries Department in his responses. The church today distinguishes between sin and poor judgment, between spiritual defilement and physical defilement, and between occasion and custom.

One of the global studies I referred to yesterday was released in October 2007 by the World Cancer Research Fund as a comprehensive collection and comparison of recent diet and exercise research. The church, through Health Ministries, was satisfied enough to publicize it through the Adventist News Network, and it makes for valuable reading.

 

[TrustAndObey]

God gives a command and the world tries to think of ways to disobey Him.

A polluted body is a polluted mind. What we eat and drink does affect our thinking processes, it's proven fact.

 

[AzA]

"God gives a command and the world tries to think of ways to disobey Him."
Was that a general observation or a comment based on this discussion?

"A polluted body is a polluted mind. What we eat and drink does affect our thinking processes, it's proven fact."
I wonder what you processed from posts 6 and 11.

 

[HolyRevolution]

Poor eating choices aren’t always something that shows up right away. You’re 17 and I’m sure you are very healthy because your immune system is in top form, but as I mentioned before, cholesterol comes from animal products (only) and that catches up with you as you get older.

My diet consisted of bean dip and chips and Mountain Dew for many years as a youngster (that’s not ALL I ate, but it was a big majority). I’m paying for that now that I’m 30.

9.

It’s like smoking. Smoking rarely ever causes serious health problems for a person until they get older in years. That’s when a person’s immune system deteriorates and they are at greater risk to develop lung cancer, emphysema, etc.

Have you seen the commercials about birth control where they say women shouldn’t take them if they smoke, especially if they’re older than 35? After 35 women are at greater risk to develop blood clots from it and/or have strokes.



You have some great questions.

Romans 14 has a sister chapter and it’s 1 Corinthians 8. If you’ll look over that chapter you’ll see that Paul is referring to meat that has been offered to idols.

1 Cr 8:1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.

Now notice the same verbage as used in Romans 14, in verse 9 & 10 of 1Cr 8:

9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak. 10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;



That’s a great verse. Paul says those things are a shadow of what is to come (he said that after Christ’s first coming, death on the cross, resurrection and ascension so those things are a shadow of Christ’s SECOND coming).

We should not judge each other on food or drink. Jesus is our judge, and that’s what the next verses say. The body of Christ can judge us.

There was a time when we could stone each other for violations against those things, but as we know, that is no longer acceptable (thankfully!)

Obviously that doesn’t mean we can’t judge someone by their fruits and if a person drinks alcohol to the point of being drunk, that’s a pretty tough thing to hide. It doesn’t cover what is already discussed in scripture and that is that we should not become drunkards.



Like I said, Romans 14 is talking about the meat offered up to idols, but again we see that we shouldn’t judge each other either way. None of those verses say an already unclean meat was offered to idols. We already know which meats are the unclean ones from Lev 11.



I hope I helped explain it. If you have more questions, feel free to ask! Great questions.

What about the dream that Peter had?
Act 11:5-9


5I was in the city of Joppa praying: and in a trance I saw a vision, A certain vessel descend, as it had been a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came even to me:
6Upon the which when I had fastened mine eyes, I considered, and saw fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
7And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat.
8But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth. 9But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

Now I do not see how you can say that unclean meat is a sin. Because in these verses seems like God says we can eat ummm fourfooted beasts, wild beasts, creeping things, and fowls of the air..... so I would be very happy if you tell me how you interpret this scripture.

 

[HolyRevolution]

I have distinguished between various classes of reason for doing or not doing X Y Z. It is a distinction the church and its public liberty organizations have consistently made since abolition and Prohibition, and still make today in several arenas.
That you have concluded that "smoking is ok" or that I have suggested that "smoking is ok" tells me that you do not understand what I have said or what the church's health ministries department, civil liberties groups, or president currently teach on this issue. Finding that one reason does not fit all cases is not the same as finding that no reasons fit any case.

So if eating unclean meat is a "sin" then what about Peter dream?
Acts 11:5-9


5I was in the city of Joppa praying: and in a trance I saw a vision, A certain vessel descend, as it had been a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came even to me:
6Upon the which when I had fastened mine eyes, I considered, and saw fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
7And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat.
8But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth. 9But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

I would like your imput because seems like God said its ok to eat the unclean meat here.

 

[AzA]

So if eating unclean meat is a "sin" then what about Peter dream?
Acts 11:5-9


5I was in the city of Joppa praying: and in a trance I saw a vision, A certain vessel descend, as it had been a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came even to me:
6Upon the which when I had fastened mine eyes, I considered, and saw fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
7And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat.
8But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth. 9But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

I would like your imput because seems like God said its ok to eat the unclean meat here.

Not once in this thread have I told you that eating anything is a sin. Plenty of other people here seem to think so. The church's health department apparently doesn't.

The dream doesn't come to Peter just because. It is a purposeful dream, and Peter explains it to other believers himself as he understands it. Read the entire chapter of Acts 10 slowly, and then focus especially on verses 28, 34-36, and 44-48. Then look at Acts 11, listen to the Jews' accusation (11:2-3), and see their response and the difference it made to evangelism (11:15-21). Then compare it with Galatians 2 for what happened a little while later when Peter thought he could be slick.

The issue was human separation. Not menu-planning.

 

[mva1985]

A person must be convicted first about clean and unclean meats. Once the Holy Spirit convicts them (after pray and Bible study) if they continue on I believe it would be a sin.

We are not judged by the church's health department.

Not once in this thread have I told you that eating anything is a sin. Plenty of other people here seem to think so. The church's health department apparently doesn't.

The dream doesn't come to Peter just because. It is a purposeful dream, and Peter explains it to other believers himself as he understands it. Read the entire chapter of Acts 10 slowly, and then focus especially on verses 28, 34-36, and 44-48. Then look at Acts 11, listen to the Jews' accusation (11:2-3), and see their response and the difference it made to evangelism (11:15-21). Then compare it with Galatians 2 for what happened a little while later when Peter thought he could be slick.

The issue was human separation. Not menu-planning.

 

[HolyRevolution]

A person must be convicted first about clean and unclean meats. Once the Holy Spirit convicts them (after pray and Bible study) if they continue on I believe it would be a sin.

We are not judged by the church's health department.

But dude come on how is it a sin if.... did you not just read what I posted about Acts 11 and the dream of Peter? I mean it shows that you are able to eat clean and unclean if I am not mistaken.

 

[HolyRevolution]

Yo Aza I must have quoted the wrong person sorry about that.

 

[HolyRevolution]

The Bible tells us in James 4:17 that if we know to do good and do it not then to him it is sin. This tells us that we can sin and go against God's will outside of the ten commandments. This means that if God is convicting you that you should not eat unclean meat and you still do then it becomes sin to you. The Bible also tells us that our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit and that we are not our own but belong to God the Creator. So it only makes sense that if our bodies are temples where God wants to dwell that we shouldn't even consider polluting it. It also says that those who destroy their bodies will be in danger of being destroyed by the God who made it in the first place.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

Really Jim?
Because umm I believe it states in Acts in a dream that God gave to Peter that we could eat the fourlegged beasts, creeping things, fowls of the air, and I believe something else. If you would like me to give an exact reference I will put it on here for you.

 

[mva1985]

But dude come on how is it a sin if.... did you not just read what I posted about Acts 11 and the dream of Peter? I mean it shows that you are able to eat clean and unclean if I am not mistaken.

HR,

A careful study of that dream in its context reveals that it is NOT referring to food at all.

 

[HolyRevolution]

HR,

A careful study of that dream in its context reveals that it is NOT referring to food at all.

How can you say that when its talking about eating and shows the animals.....

Also please tell me what it does mean... if its not about eating.

 

[TrustAndObey]

What about the dream that Peter had?
Act 11:5-9


5I was in the city of Joppa praying: and in a trance I saw a vision, A certain vessel descend, as it had been a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came even to me:
6Upon the which when I had fastened mine eyes, I considered, and saw fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
7And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat.
8But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth. 9But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

Now I do not see how you can say that unclean meat is a sin. Because in these verses seems like God says we can eat ummm fourfooted beasts, wild beasts, creeping things, and fowls of the air..... so I would be very happy if you tell me how you interpret this scripture.

Keep reading little brother. The dream was symbolic that there is no unclean MAN. Peter was being told to tell the Gospel to Gentiles, not just Jews. (v 18)

It's clearer in Acts 10:

10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.

15 And the voice [spake] unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, [that] call not thou common.

16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.

17 Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,

(Peter knew it wasn't about food, obviously)

18 And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there.

19 While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.

20 Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them.

....44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

It was a time of transition and Gentiles were being accepted into the "chosen". God was telling Peter there is no unclean man, through a vision about meats we know are unclean.