Here's the pattern....

[JacktheCatholic]

Ekklesia = assembly. So, 2 or 3 are the smallest possible assembly.
It is an assembly in the name of Christ, then He promised He would be there.

I agree it's not just anywhere where 2 or 3 christians meet. It needs to be an assembly "in His name". Nor is it confined to any building or organization: no word of that.

Help my recallection if you could.

Doesn't scripture speak of churches that claim to be Christian but which we are warned against?

 

[holdon]

Irenaeus who was taught by Polycarp who was taught by the Apsotle John wrote:



Irenaeus


"As I said before, the Church, having received this preaching and this faith, although she is disseminated throughout the whole world, yet guarded it, as if she occupied but one house. She likewise believes these things just as if she had but one soul and one and the same heart; and harmoniously she proclaims them and teaches them and hands them down, as if she possessed but one mouth. For, while the languages of the world are diverse, nevertheless, the authority of the tradition is one and the same" (Against Heresies 1:10:2 [A.D. 189]).

"That is why it is surely necessary to avoid them [heretics], while cherishing with the utmost diligence the things pertaining to the Church, and to lay hold of the tradition of truth. . . . What if the apostles had not in fact left writings to us? Would it not be necessary to follow the order of tradition, which was handed down to those to whom they entrusted the churches?" (ibid., 3:4:1).

...

"It is possible, then, for everyone in every church, who may wish to know the truth, to contemplate the tradition of the apostles which has been made known throughout the whole world. And we are in a position to enumerate those who were instituted bishops by the apostles and their successors to our own times—men who neither knew nor taught anything like these heretics rave about.

"But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the successions of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles.

"With this church, because of its superior origin, all churches must agree—that is, all the faithful in the whole world—and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition" (ibid., 3:3:1–2).

Hence the early departure from the truth.....

 

[holdon]

Help my recallection if you could.

Doesn't scripture speak of churches that claim to be Christian but which we are warned against?

Eh, dunno...

 

[ScottBot]

Help my recallection if you could.

Doesn't scripture speak of churches that claim to be Christian but which we are warned against?

Yes, it tells us clearly that the Catholic Church is the harlot of babylon and that the Pope is the man of inequity and that we are to "come out of her, my people".

Sheesh, don't your bible say that? (if you even know what a bible is, you silly papist.)

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Hence the early departure from the truth.....

LOL!!!

So Jesus could not beuild a church to last past John the Apostle and it was not until the last hundred years that Jesus church has resurfaced?

OK...

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Eh, dunno...

Come on Holdon... you say that the church departed from the truth from a writing of someone taught within one generation of Peter himself and yet you do not know scripture well enough to show me what I ask for?

 

[holdon]

LOL!!!

So Jesus could not beuild a church to last past John the Apostle and it was not until the last hundred years that Jesus church has resurfaced?

OK...

Jesus' Church still stands. Gates of Hell etc.. you know.

 

[holdon]

Come on Holdon... you say that the church departed from the truth from a writing of someone taught within one generation of Peter himself and yet you do not know scripture well enough to show me what I ask for?

No.

 

[ScottBot]

Jesus' Church still stands. Gates of Hell etc.. you know.

You're doggon right it does.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

No.

I think this is what I referring to.


[bible]2 john 1:7-13[/bible]

So when I quote Irenaeus who was taught in the first generation of the Apsotles and in full accord with the Apostles teachings I think it proof of the correct way to understand church and to avoid being deceived.

 

[Catholic Christian]

Jesus' Church still stands. Gates of Hell etc.. you know.

Hey, you're right. Lookie:

 

[Trento]

Hence the early departure from the truth.....

If that is the case then Jesus Christ lied when He said...

"I am with you ALL days, even until the end of the world."
Matthew 28:20

"...and the gates of hell shall NOT prevail against it."
Matthew 16:18

"...and I will ask the Father and He will give you another Advocate to dwell with you forever, the Spirit of Truth..."
John 14:16-17

"I will not leave you orphans."
John 14:18

 

[holdon]

I think this is what I referring to.


[bible]2 john 1:7-13[/bible]

So when I quote Irenaeus who was taught in the first generation of the Apsotles and in full accord with the Apostles teachings I think it proof of the correct way to understand church and to avoid being deceived.

You think?? You're not sure? Nor am I. This text doesn't refer to churches, but individuals. And this very text pleads against the Catholic position of ongoing developments in doctrine:

"Whosoever goes forward and abides not in the doctrine of the Christ has not God."

And that's exactly what has happened: people going "forward", that is adding to, developing new stuff.

Trust me: the 27 books are wholly sufficient....

 

[E.C.]

Hey, you're right. Lookie:

Right idea, wrong location.

 

[holdon]

If that is the case then Jesus Christ lied when He said...

"I am with you ALL days, even until the end of the world."
Matthew 28:20

"...and the gates of hell shall NOT prevail against it."
Matthew 16:18

"...and I will ask the Father and He will give you another Advocate to dwell with you forever, the Spirit of Truth..."
John 14:16-17

"I will not leave you orphans."
John 14:18

Christ is with those who are faithful. Not just because some arrogate themselves to be the Church or whatever:

for what participation is there between righteousness and lawlessness? or what fellowship of light with darkness?
6:15 and what consent of Christ with Beliar, or what part for a believer along with an unbeliever? 6:16 and what agreement of God's temple with idols? for ye are the living God's temple; according as God has said, I will dwell among them, and walk among them; and I will be their God, and they shall be to me a people. 6:17 Wherefore come out from the midst of them, and be separated, saith the Lord, and touch not what is unclean, and I will receive you; 6:18 and I will be to you for a Father, and ye shall be to me for sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
Now, what has Rome ever separated herself from? Augustine as you yourself said, wanted this mixture of believers and unbelievers contrary to this Scripture...

 

[simonthezealot]

So when I quote Irenaeus who was taught in the first generation of the Apsotles and in full accord with the Apostles teachings I think it proof of the correct way to understand church and to avoid being deceived.

Jack in theory then should you (your church) accept all of Ireneaus teachings then? because you/they sure miss on a butt load of them.

 

[Catholic Christian]

Christ is with those who are faithful.....

That's me

 

[holdon]

That's me

I do think that there are true christians in the Roman Catholic Church.

However, what did you ever separate from?
Wherefore come out from the midst of them, and be separated, saith the Lord, and touch not what is unclean, and I will receive you;

 

[Catholic Christian]

I do think that there are true christians in the Roman Catholic Church......

About as many as in any other church (proportionally speaking, of course)

 

[E.C.]

Fogive me, holdon; when I saw this:

I do think that there are true christians in the Roman Catholic Church.

I read it incorrectly and thought it read "I do not think..."