Help???

[notmyown123]

I grew up in church, and am very thankful for it. It has enabled me to keep my faith no matter what I am facing. My question now is this. As I have gotten older, I have come to dislike the ideas of denominations... Now every time I try to read my Bible I am in fear that all of what I read is shaped around what I was taught in church. Obviously if there are this many different interpretations, not all of them can be right. So how can I read my Bible and know that what Im learning is from God, and not just from what ive been told my entire life? Thanks in advance

 

[ParsonJefferson]

I grew up in church, and am very thankful for it. It has enabled me to keep my faith no matter what I am facing. My question now is this. As I have gotten older, I have come to dislike the ideas of denominations... Now every time I try to read my Bible I am in fear that all of what I read is shaped around what I was taught in church. Obviously if there are this many different interpretations, not all of them can be right. So how can I read my Bible and know that what Im learning is from God, and not just from what ive been told my entire life? Thanks in advance

First of all, I'm not sure what you're so concerned about.

By denominational differences, we're not talking about differences like Hindu or Buddhist, etc.

I'd suggest you read the 4 Gospels. Then maybe re-read them. Become firmly established in knowing more about Jesus.

Expand your reading from there. An order I would suggest is: Paul's Letters, The General Epistles, The Book of Acts, Genesis & Exodus, Old Testament Poetry, Old Testament History, Revelation, and last - Old Testament Prophets.

My main reason for suggesting this order of reading is because of the increasing difficulty in interpreting these latter books mentioned.

 

[notmyown123]

Im afraid because I have no idea what to believe as truth... I came to light on how badly my ideals were shaped around my denominations belief... I came to light on the fact that I have never thought for myself. I have just sat in a pew and taken everything my preacher said up unto that point as complete truth. Now i know this was no ones fault but my own. But i will accept nothing less than to know that every lesson that I receive from the Bible to be absolute truth. I take blaspemy very seriously, and even consider many denominational practices to be borderline to this... I have much to fear I believe

 

[HeartLineToYou]

I think the best way to learn is reading the Bible yourself, praying that God will open your eyes and increase your understanding. Read verses over and over if you have to. Otherwise you are accepting another man's interpretation. If we don't do the research for ourselves, these teachings reach our subconscious mind and before we know it, we are passing them on to others.
I used to debate atheists in chat rooms and they were the ones that really put my knowledge to the test...oh yeah?...where does it say that?
After the damage has already been done, prayer is the only thing that will open our minds to the truth!

 

[Armistead]

Im afraid because I have no idea what to believe as truth... I came to light on how badly my ideals were shaped around my denominations belief... I came to light on the fact that I have never thought for myself. I have just sat in a pew and taken everything my preacher said up unto that point as complete truth. Now i know this was no ones fault but my own. But i will accept nothing less than to know that every lesson that I receive from the Bible to be absolute truth. I take blaspemy very seriously, and even consider many denominational practices to be borderline to this... I have much to fear I believe

The real truth will line up with your inner conscience that God gave you. I went through this same process as you. I basically put all my beliefs aside and tested them one by one, not based on my denomination. Yes, I used the bible, but also history, ect. I basically studied how most denominations came into being and why. It was mostly due to the greed of man for control of people.

There is one easy principle. Christ said that loving God and others fulfills all the law. Live by the law of love, not code of men. Simply, in your behavior ask yourself does this harm someone. If it does, then you need to change.
If all men lived by that, just think how the world would be.

Someone will control your mind, let it be youself. Too many have accepted at face value what they just happened to walk into. Of course each claims they are right and everyone else wrong. They are just being controlled. No one is all right or all wrong.

Keep an open mind and keep your mind your own.

 

[NHB_MMA]

This is why I have concluded I cannot call myself a Protestant.

 

[ebia]

I grew up in church, and am very thankful for it. It has enabled me to keep my faith no matter what I am facing. My question now is this. As I have gotten older, I have come to dislike the ideas of denominations... Now every time I try to read my Bible I am in fear that all of what I read is shaped around what I was taught in church. Obviously if there are this many different interpretations, not all of them can be right. So how can I read my Bible and know that what Im learning is from God, and not just from what ive been told my entire life? Thanks in advance

You can't entirely - it's not possible to read something entirely objectively.

Being aware of the problem is a help. Thinking critically is a help. Reading scholarly commentary from other traditions is a help.

 

[ContentInHim]

Pray before and after reading that the Holy Spirit would open the words up to you. I recommend reading straight through - Genesis to Revelation. It brings to the fore why we need a savior and then who he is!

 

[JWNEWMAN]

Im afraid because I have no idea what to believe as truth... I came to light on how badly my ideals were shaped around my denominations belief... I came to light on the fact that I have never thought for myself. I have just sat in a pew and taken everything my preacher said up unto that point as complete truth. Now i know this was no ones fault but my own. But i will accept nothing less than to know that every lesson that I receive from the Bible to be absolute truth. I take blaspemy very seriously, and even consider many denominational practices to be borderline to this... I have much to fear I believe

Trust God. He loves you, right? Then He wants you to understand. Trust in that truth and be willing to accept what He reveals to you as truth. God Loves You, he does not desire that we walk in fear. Fear is only useful to bring us back to God if we stray. Otherwise, if you are seeking God, He is pleased with you, I believe He always Loves us, even when we stray. However, it is His good purpose that we should walk in peace and the light of understanding. None of us has all the answers, but you can be assured God desires your peace of mind. Simply believe and confess to Him your trust that He himself by his Spirit will guide you ... Abide in that trust.

 

[billwald]

Most everyone hates the concept of denominations but we are stuck with it. The Dutch Reformed denominations would say the reason is that sin permiates all human activity including the Church and we must make the best of it.

 

[tapero]

I grew up in church, and am very thankful for it. It has enabled me to keep my faith no matter what I am facing. My question now is this. As I have gotten older, I have come to dislike the ideas of denominations... Now every time I try to read my Bible I am in fear that all of what I read is shaped around what I was taught in church. Obviously if there are this many different interpretations, not all of them can be right. So how can I read my Bible and know that what Im learning is from God, and not just from what ive been told my entire life? Thanks in advance

Im afraid because I have no idea what to believe as truth... I came to light on how badly my ideals were shaped around my denominations belief... I came to light on the fact that I have never thought for myself. I have just sat in a pew and taken everything my preacher said up unto that point as complete truth. Now i know this was no ones fault but my own. But i will accept nothing less than to know that every lesson that I receive from the Bible to be absolute truth. I take blaspemy very seriously, and even consider many denominational practices to be borderline to this... I have much to fear I believe

Hi, there comes in a point in many of our lives where we go from being fed to feeding ourselves. It can be many years after coming to Christ, and many people sit and listen and believe what they are taught without knowing for themselves and is common and is okay.

Generally it's the pastor who would tend to help people not to be that way, in other words, learn the word for yourself, don't trust what I say, look it up and verify it, etc.

Now, as to all the theology in your head, what you can do is as you read the bible, say, well, this is what i have known, but what does the bible say to this. And study, and come to your own conclusions.

It will be a very long time, as you will be reading the bible thru the glasses of what you have learned from the pulpit or others, so bear that in mind, and do know that you are okay, you are where your supposed to be with God, He loves you perfectly and it's okay, we all grow differerntly have had differnt opportunities or lack of in churches or other experiences and its okay.

But you will be reading thru those glasses. I would clearly start with the basics. Christ and salvation, and work up from there. Why do I believe Christ saved me, I mean that's how basic you can get to tear down things that were fed to you, which may be inaccurate even including teachings on Jesus, and you can build a firm solid foundation of your own, with God's help starting from why do i believe what I believe, first about Christ, and then onto other things.

So that is how you will shed what you've been told and how you will learn for yourself as you study, and God will help you. There are many complicated issues and really it's okay to leave them on the back burner and not to worry but to concentrate in places you desire to concentrate on.

As to blasphemy I don't know what you mean. The nt says not to blaspehme the Holy Spirit and that those who do so will not be forgiven.

I believe this was occuring during those times in the bible as we see a couple who lies to the Holy Spirit and die dead flat. That doesn't happen today. So, I believe this has past, as regards blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and was in the time of the bible but as with other things in the NT are not of today.

I've lied and not dropped dead, I'm sure I've lied to God and not dropped dead.

people take communion who are not even believers and do not get sick and die,and believers take communiion who are in sin and do not drop dead and die. Same thing, it's passed. It's not in this period of grace we are living.

Of course we all are sinners.

So, if you mean by blasphemy that a church is not teaching right, that is one thing. I wouldn't so worry about what to name it, but I certainly woudln't go to a church that isn't christ centered and rightly dividing the word of truth. Of course, the pastor is only a man, and so you need to see how he teaches, is he humble, does he lift or elevate himself (run from that church), does he lift and elevate Christ and is humble and is not condeming (there is no condemnation for those in christ Jesus) and the church should be a place to go like a hospital, a healing place, where war torn believers come in and worship and sing, and there are many different styles of worship and that's okay, as God made us all very different.

there are many bad churches out there and many good churches out there.

One other thing if you also think of blasphemy as swearing using Gods name, well again, i can tell you people don't drop dead from such and they also can be forgiven.

I know what I was like before Christ, and what I am like now, and God does not turn anyone away and wants all to know him.

So, at your pace and I would start at the basics even tho may seem simple, work up from the beginning which is Christ and go on to other things and bear in mind you are reading thru a filtered mind of what you have heard and been taught and you need to keep an eye on those things, and you can just go on the net, do key word searches to find the scriptures about such and study that way as well.

God bless,
tapero

 

[Droppo]

When I stopped going to church, things became much clearer for me. I've never seen a church where people actually learn anything; in my experience, they just show up to reinforce their preexisting dogmas. The only exception I can think of would be a Unitarian Universalist church I've gone to a few times.

My suggestion would be to step back and take a look around you. Read various translations of the Bible, and talk to as many different people with as many different takes on religion as you can. Find the things that really speak to you personally and explore them.

Good luck.

 

[Nadiine]

When I stopped going to church, things became much clearer for me. I've never seen a church where people actually learn anything; in my experience, they just show up to reinforce their preexisting dogmas. The only exception I can think of would be a Unitarian Universalist church I've gone to a few times.

My suggestion would be to step back and take a look around you. Read various translations of the Bible, and talk to as many different people with as many different takes on religion as you can. Find the things that really speak to you personally and explore them.

Good luck.

K, then you've gone to a bad church or a wrong church-

good churches are still everywhere, and they are established by God for us to gather together as believers and be connected and serve one another.

Me & my husband have moved to many cities and we've always been able to quickly find a very good church wherever we went.
It's my humble opinion that people that are anti church have spiritual issues going on that need to be dealt with. Once that's sorted out, church once again becomes a joy and not a burden.
(or you need to just drive a little further to get to a good one).

 

[Nadiine]

Most everyone hates the concept of denominations but we are stuck with it. The Dutch Reformed denominations would say the reason is that sin permiates all human activity including the Church and we must make the best of it.

One thing I did learn from the unrest around this site without proper leadership or guidance was that denominations are a MUST.
And I don't even think that it's "sin" that creates so many denoms.
People love to attack them as "ebil", but just try to run anything with people of every kind of different belief and you'll start to see infighting & chaos.

Denominations are fine, the issue as I see it is division within God's people. We should be able to get along as believers and love one another, but be able to worship in unity with those of like mind for better spiritual growth.
That's just how I view it.

 

[Droppo]

K, then you've gone to a bad church or a wrong church-

good churches are still everywhere, and they are established by God for us to gather together as believers and be connected and serve one another.

Me & my husband have moved to many cities and we've always been able to quickly find a very good church wherever we went.
It's my humble opinion that people that are anti church have spiritual issues going on that need to be dealt with. Once that's sorted out, church once again becomes a joy and not a burden.
(or you need to just drive a little further to get to a good one).

I don't enjoy going to church because the people are so close-minded and judgmental. They tend to do things like tell me I have spiritual problems or that I'm anti-church when they don't know anything about me.

I just don't like the idea of a congregation held by one person. When there are no new ideas or input from different sources, I spiritually stagnate. I'm more comfortable in small theology study groups with lots of people with different beliefs and religions where we can all share our knowledge.

Christian churches just don't do that in my experience. They just repeat the same things over and over, week after week, year after year. It's nothing but lather-rinse-repeat dogma. I want to explore my spirituality and grow.

 

[Nadiine]

I don't enjoy going to church because the people are so close-minded and judgmental. They tend to do things like tell me I have spiritual problems or that I'm anti-church when they don't know anything about me.

I'd stop it right here to note your own closed mindedness AGAINST church and God's people in general. I can say the same of you; I have an OPEN mind to church, you don't seem to.

I just don't like the idea of a congregation held by one person. When there are no new ideas or input from different sources, I spiritually stagnate. I'm more comfortable in small theology study groups with lots of people with different beliefs and religions where we can all share our knowledge.

How did Jesus and Paul teach in the NT? Same way.
Again, just becuz YOU don't happen to see a good church near you (which is purely relative on your part and also it's governed by the condition of your own spiritual condition) doesn't mean it should ALL be thrown away; again, it's GOD who established church gathering, not man.
It's HIS invention, so I'd be careful what I attacked in a stereotypical way.

Christian churches just don't do that in my experience. They just repeat the same things over and over, week after week, year after year. It's nothing but lather-rinse-repeat dogma. I want to explore my spirituality and grow.

This actually hints that the issue is going on within YOUR spiritual life - if that's how you view it, then you may want to do some introspection as to what's possibly going on.
We go to WORSHIP, GIVE OFFERINGS AND COMMUNE with others - you're looking at it as "it owes me entertainment" or "it doesn't GIVE ME what I want"... that is most likely why you find nothing there.
We go to GIVE and worship our God together - just looking at it from that perspective will change your view of church dramatically imo.

Until I dealt with my own spiritual dryness, church was a boring drag and gave me nothing. When my attitude & heart changed, church changed.

 

[Droppo]

I'd stop it right here to note your own closed mindedness AGAINST church and God's people in general. I can say the same of you; I have an OPEN mind to church, you don't seem to.

I have no problem with church. If it's your thing, then by all means go for it. It's just not for me personally. Been there, done that; it did nothing for me spiritually or intellectually.

How did Jesus and Paul teach in the NT? Same way.
Again, just becuz YOU don't happen to see a good church near you (which is purely relative on your part and also it's governed by the condition of your own spiritual condition) doesn't mean it should ALL be thrown away; again, it's GOD who established church gathering, not man.

It's HIS invention, so I'd be careful what I attacked in a stereotypical way.

I never said it should be thrown away. If it's a part of someone's spiritual path, then they should embrace it. But it's not a part of mine. And I'm assuming that because of the success I found when I went elsewhere for spiritual enrichment, some others might benefit from it as well.

This actually hints that the issue is going on within YOUR spiritual life - if that's how you view it, then you may want to do some introspection as to what's possibly going on.

What's the issue with my spiritual life? I find it to be extremely fulfilling and meaningful. It was neither of those things when I regularly attended church.

I've already done a lot of introspection. With God's guidance, I found that church wasn't a part of my spiritual journey. Nobody's path is exactly the same.

We go to WORSHIP, GIVE OFFERINGS AND COMMUNE with others - you're looking at it as "it owes me entertainment" or "it doesn't GIVE ME what I want"... that is most likely why you find nothing there.

It didn't give me anything spiritually. I felt no connection to God at church. When I moved to small theology discussions, I started to really feel a connection to God. So why would I want to go back when I've found a connection to God elsewhere? Why would I want to take part in a religious practice that didn't offer any knowledge or connection to God?

We go to GIVE and worship our God together - just looking at it from that perspective will change your view of church dramatically imo.

Why does it have to be in a group? I have a really shy personality. I would rather worship with my friends and loved ones than a bunch of people I don't know that don't share my beliefs.

Until I dealt with my own spiritual dryness, church was a boring drag and gave me nothing. When my attitude & heart changed, church changed.

It's not a matter of being boring. It does nothing for me spiritually. When I started worshiping in a small group of friends, I found an abundance of spiritual growth and knowledge. Why do I have to worship God the exact same way that you do?

 

[Nadiine]

I have no problem with church. If it's your thing, then by all means go for it. It's just not for me personally. Been there, done that; it did nothing for me spiritually or intellectually.

K, so in other words, God was wrong when He made church gathering for His people?
It's good for some, but not others? Can you show me this in scripture?

Also, I'd have to ask if you're above being "taught"? No Pastors can intellectually teach you anything or stimulate you?
I know top notch Christian professionals in theology that 'go to church' on a weekly basis and are fed by the Pastor/shepherd there.
They somehow manage to be fulfilled thru church worship & gathering....

I never said it should be thrown away. If it's a part of someone's spiritual path, then they should embrace it. But it's not a part of mine. And I'm assuming that because of the success I found when I went elsewhere for spiritual enrichment, some others might benefit from it as well.

Same issue, are you somehow "different and separate" from all other sheep of God's flock? You need something other than what God established? It's "wrong" for you?

I would hope you start to see the problem with these statements you're making. Something is going on. And again, we do not go for SELF - we go TO worship our Lord thru the words of the songs, giving back to His church financially and fellowshiping w/ others.. being a network together and serving one another as one body of Christ.
It would seem that you prefer isolation from that entire network, and I'd ask you to do some introspection as to the issues that cause this.

What's the issue with my spiritual life? I find it to be extremely fulfilling and meaningful. It was neither of those things when I regularly attended church.

I've already done a lot of introspection. With God's guidance, I found that church wasn't a part of my spiritual journey. Nobody's path is exactly the same.

But it's GOD'S establishment for us and we're told in scripture NOT to forsake going/gathering together as the body. There's a reason for it that God knows.
It also helps keep us accountable spiritually - it's more than just "I go to hear a sermon & I expect to learn something new"... if that's all it is to you, then there's an issue going on.

Why does it have to be in a group? I have a really shy personality. I would rather worship with my friends and loved ones than a bunch of people I don't know that don't share my beliefs.

SO DO I. (I know I sound pretty outgoing - I'm bold when I'm comfortable with my surrounding, but extremely shy/introverted originally till comfortable).
I have the same reason one can have for NOT going - and small churches make me absolutely uncomfortable. I want to run out of them.
I go to a pretty large church where it's more comfy for me - and then I'm not forced into the social stuff. I don't participate in all the church stuff either - I only go Sundays. Study at home and being at home doing your own study is NOT the same as being at church.
People who have stopped going and then gone back to attending regularly say the same thing.
We tend to drift if we aren't "planted" someplace - even if we're not 'socializing' privately w/ other people. Just going makes a difference.

It's not a matter of being boring. It does nothing for me spiritually. When I started worshiping in a small group of friends, I found an abundance of spiritual growth and knowledge. Why do I have to worship God the exact same way that you do?

That's what I'm saying tho, IT SHOULD do something for you spiritually.

God has appointed us Shepherds/teachers/overseers. Are your friends teachers? gone to seminary? know Greek/Hebrew or anything?
God has set up a system for us for a reason, I'm not asking you to do anything that your bible doesn't already specify & example.

If you don't want to listen to me, by all means don't. But I'm just relaying what God has already said to us ALL. Sheep are LED and I believe God would know best as our true Shepherd what is necessary for us as His sheep which is why He's established the system He has.
I would much rather follow His system than go off on my own to decide for myself what is better for me.

 

[Droppo]

K, so in other words, God was wrong when He made church gathering for His people?
It's good for some, but not others? Can you show me this in scripture?

Where does it say in scripture that everybody has to worship at the same place, at the same time, in the same way, with the same people? I gather with people I love and trust. It's more meaningful than gathering with strangers.

Also, I'd have to ask if you're above being "taught"? No Pastors can intellectually teach you anything or stimulate you?
I know top notch Christian professionals in theology that 'go to church' on a weekly basis and are fed by the Pastor/shepherd there.
They somehow manage to be fulfilled thru church worship & gathering....

I've already stated many times that the reason I don't go to church is because I want to learn more. Very few churches offer anything new; most have solidly established dogmas that are expounded on again and again and again. I would rather spend time with people who are willing to learn new things and change their perspective when new information and understanding comes along.

Same issue, are you somehow "different and separate" from all other sheep of God's flock? You need something other than what God established? It's "wrong" for you?

I'm not really all that different. I'm just selective about who I trust. And because there are many people studying with me each week, I'm not different at all, really.

We don't deviate from anything God has established. When Christianity was in its infancy, there were many study groups conducted in private homes. Many people still do it today. Why do I need a big building to worship God?

I would hope you start to see the problem with these statements you're making. Something is going on. And again, we do not go for SELF - we go TO worship our Lord thru the words of the songs, giving back to His church financially and fellowshiping w/ others.. being a network together and serving one another as one body of Christ.
It would seem that you prefer isolation from that entire network, and I'd ask you to do some introspection as to the issues that cause this.

I'm not isolated at all. Like I already said many times, I study with a group. We all have the same desire- to learn more about the nature of God. Again, why do I need a big, fancy building to do that?

But it's GOD'S establishment for us and we're told in scripture NOT to forsake going/gathering together as the body. There's a reason for it that God knows.
It also helps keep us accountable spiritually - it's more than just "I go to hear a sermon & I expect to learn something new"... if that's all it is to you, then there's an issue going on.

Yet again, I gather every week to study and worship with a group. The only way I'm deviating from the idea of a "big" church is that we don't have our own building and we're willing to learn new things.

Why else would I go to a sermon if it wasn't to learn? Isn't that the point?

SO DO I. (I know I sound pretty outgoing - I'm bold when I'm comfortable with my surrounding, but extremely shy/introverted originally till comfortable).
I have the same reason one can have for NOT going - and small churches make me absolutely uncomfortable. I want to run out of them.

That's fine. That's you're preference and your path. Just because you don't like it personally doesn't mean that everybody else should feel that way.

I go to a pretty large church where it's more comfy for me - and then I'm not forced into the social stuff. I don't participate in all the church stuff either - I only go Sundays. Study at home and being at home doing your own study is NOT the same as being at church.

I don't study on my own. Yet again, it's with a group. And yet again, why do I need the big building? And how is it different? The goals are the same. This setting is just more conductive for my style of learning and worship.

People who have stopped going and then gone back to attending regularly say the same thing.
We tend to drift if we aren't "planted" someplace - even if we're not 'socializing' privately w/ other people. Just going makes a difference.

That's good for them. They've found their path. But it's different from mine.

I'm firmly planted in my studies with my friends. I don't see how changing the building I walk into is going to make a difference.

That's what I'm saying tho, IT SHOULD do something for you spiritually.

No, it's not for me. There's no logical reason for why my way is any less legitimate than anyone else's. God was not in any of the churches I've visited. Not for me, anyway.

God has appointed us Shepherds/teachers/overseers. Are your friends teachers? gone to seminary? know Greek/Hebrew or anything?
God has set up a system for us for a reason, I'm not asking you to do anything that your bible doesn't already specify & example.

A few are working on Greek, and one is extremely fluent in Hebrew (she's seriously amazing). I'm an ESL teacher myself, but that's probably not what you meant.

We're not doing anything that isn't encouraged by scripture. We're making an honest effort to build on what we know, and it's much more satisfying than anything I've found in a big church.

If you don't want to listen to me, by all means don't. But I'm just relaying what God has already said to us ALL. Sheep are LED and I believe God would know best as our true Shepherd what is necessary for us as His sheep which is why He's established the system He has.
I would much rather follow His system than go off on my own to decide for myself what is better for me.

When did God ever say that we have to use a decorative building and surround ourselves with people we don't know? I followed God to where I am now. I know in my heart this is where I'm wanted, and it's a much more enriching than anything an organized denominational church has ever been able to offer me.

 

[ebia]

I go to a pretty large church where it's more comfy for me - and then I'm not forced into the social stuff. I don't participate in all the church stuff either - I only go Sundays.

"Church" done this way is no more complete than the "church" Droppo does.