"Help! We're being persecuted!"

[Polycarp_fan]

Polycarp_fan's logic escapes you?

Andy, Andy, Andy, you never miss my point, nor how logical I present it.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Even though, as it has been pointed out, that Gandhi said that he like your Christ, but did not like your Christians, who were not much like your Christ", I think that the statment by tanzanos is true of others. I know of people who said that they are embarrassed to call themselves Christian, who are said to be known by their love, but this is no longer the case.

You'll find most of them dwelling in the camp of "the usual suspects." The usual non and anti Christian camp.

It seems a sad tragedy for the Religion, for the Christian community that some are embarrassed to consider themselves Christian for the negative image that conservative Christians have created.

What's even more sad, far more sad, is that liberal Christianity is not much different than than non and anti belief systems that support it.

In "Stealing Jesus", the author talks about Liberals to reclaim Jesus, and reclaim the characteristics of what a Christian is, even if that means standing up to conservatives.

Bring it on. There is no support from the Apostolic witness for the progressive movement supported by liberal theology. The "Red Letters" of the Gospels declare that marriage is a man and a woman. Bye-bye liberalism on that subject. Up next: Abortion as birth control and Marxist socialism.

I also believe that for people who have never known the bible or Christianity, it is often presented as a threat of hell,

You mean the hell that Jesus mentions so many times?

. . . as an obey or else, of blaming others and forgiving themselves, and turns people off from God as well as Christians.

What "turns people off" from God as well as Christians, is there desire to refuse to repent.

The Pharisees did the same, according to Jesus' strong rebuke against them.

Jesus rebuked those that refuse the Gospel in similar harsh judgments.

I really wish that they had a new leader, a Revival, that taught love and mercy, taught kindness, that brought joy and hope to the world, instead of gloom, threat and fear.

Stop believing CNN and MSNBC, ABC, CBS, HBO and other "liberal media," and research the love and mercy, joy and hope preached in every Evangelical Church on earth. It will not cause you any physical harm at all.

It seems to be a diseased religion that must either change its way, or die off as a fossil, constantly clinging to ways that no longer work (slavery, segregation, etc.).

Over 2000-years of that same threat and the Church is still alive and growing. Um, Christians were abolitionists BB.

The Christian Church condemned AIDS, rather than saw such people as their neighbor to care for, and has become a follower of the world, that is out shining the Church in its love and compassion. I think there is hope, but one must follow Christ, rather than oneself.

Another myth about Christians not caring about those suffering with AIDS that they received in their own persons.

Why do I care? Because they are my neighbor. When they are sick, I also suffer from their illness. I have friends and family that are devout Christian, often confused about what to do in a changing world, and sometimes rushing back to 1st Century words to understand this centuries challenges.[/quote[

Other than cell phones, laptops and TV what's so different between the morality of Roman times to the morality of the 21st century?

Nero married a man. 2000 years ago. He also hated Christians too.

I care for them because I think they know it as well, and there is so much potential.

I'm sure they appreciate your support.

 

[Sketcher]

Gay activists, Muslims, Hindus, Pro-choicers, all get a lot more grief than Christians in this country. And they get it FROM Christians. And don't tell me they don't.

1. This does not excuse it when they do stuff to us.

2. You need to account for the nature of any grief they get, and whether it comes from "mainline" Christians or not.

It's time that we as followers, all of us, just admit it, instead of coming up with excuses all the time and claiming that our oppression of others is justified. We are supposed to love others for Jesus. Yet we see Christians kill in the name of God, we see Christians tease and harass in the name of God, and not only do we sometimes not stop it but we support it. All because they're doing it to people who don't believe the same as us?

I don't do that, though. Christians killing in the name of God - that doesn't happen very much in America, and even the secular left who dislikes us has to admit it. We repudiate the very few people who do commit acts of violence in the name of Jesus. I admit to having teased and harassed a couple unbelievers for their unbelief, but that was due to my immaturity as a person in my teenage years and earlier, and I regret that. I don't do that stuff anymore. And I certainly don't support those supposed methods of witnessing, it's disgusting to call it that. I believe in witnessing, and I don't believe you insult people into the kingdom of God.

 

[allhart]

If people's view points don't matter on children or the innocent.Then their parents sin wouldn't condemn them. For they wouldn't grow up doing the same or more. We as a nation will also have to live with others condescending sin, as well. When God decides enough is enough. For we all pay with suffering as a nation. Just like a family pays for parents sin.

 

[Spherical Time]

1. This does not excuse it when they do stuff to us.

Huh. And here I've thought I've been hearing Christians saying that tolerance was the devils work for years. The gay people finally give up tolerance and switch to the "Christian" example and suddenly they complain about about it?

Why don't Christians who have complained about the calls for tolerance accept that this is a wonderful step forward?

2. You need to account for the nature of any grief they get, and whether it comes from "mainline" Christians or not.

But you just said that it doesn't excuse others when they do it? So doesn't this mean that you need to account for the nature of the grief that Christians get, and whether it comes from "mainline" gay people or not?

The whiplash is making me dizzy.

 

[lawtonfogle]

GLBT's are not our worst enemies, and atheists and humanists are just in it for the sport:

Voices of the Martyrs http://www.persecution.com/
(the real ones)

Christian Persecution Intensifies Across China

China Aid Association reports that since the end of the Olympics persecution has intensified. full story
U.S. Department of State Gravely Concerned by China’s Harassment of Pastor "Bike" Zhang

U.S. Department of State deeply concerned by continued harassment of Pastor "Bike" Zhang and his family. full story
Belarus – Protestant Bishop Deported

Ukrainian founder of largest charismatic church deported because of religious activity. full story
Afghanistan – Taliban Kills Christian Aid Worker

Taliban shot and killed Christian aid worker as she walked to work. full story
Media

Video - Underground Reality

See what happens when eight ordinary teens set out on a mission to meet the underground church in Vietnam. watch:


Recent News

CHINA - Prominent House Church Leader's Sons Assaulted by Chinese Police

Pastor Bike's sons severely beaten by Public Security Bureau officers. full story
India – More than 70,000 Christians displaced in Orissa

VOM sources report more than 70,000 believers have been displaced in Orissa state attacks. full story
Iraq – Seven Christians Killed in Mosul, Iraq

Iraqi police report seven Christians have been killed in Mosul so far this month. full story
Two Iranian Christians Released from Prison

Christians imprisoned in Shiraz, Iran, since May have been released. full story
International Day of Prayer for the Persecuted Church: November 9

BARTLESVILLE –The Voice of the Martyrs is calling on Christians worldwide to set aside Nov. 9, to pray for Christians around the world living daily under the threat of persecution as a part of the International Day of Prayer for the Persecuted Church (IDOP). full story
Christian Family Attacked and Three Killed

Three members of a Christian family killed after a neighbor blames them for his daughter’s stomach ailment. full story
North Korea - Christian Persecution Expected to Continue

VOM contacts expect persecution to continue despite reports North Korea’s dictator, Kim Jong Il might be ill. full story
INDIA – Violence against Christians Escalating in Orissa State

Outbreaks of violence against Christians escalating as homes, churches are burned in Orissa state. full story
Prominent House Church leader Released from Prison

Chinese Pastor Zhang "Bike" Mingxuan, wife and co-worker released. full story
Petition to Free Senior House Church Leader Launched

VOM and China Aid Launch Petition Drive to Free Pastor Zhang "Bike" Mingxuan. full story
Saudi Arabia – Saudi Man Killed Daughter for Converting to Christianity

Father cuts his daughter’s tongue and burns her Christian conversion. full story
Olympic Persecution: China Confiscates Bibles

Customs officials confiscated 315 Chinese Bibles from a Vision Beyond Borders team on Sunday, August 17, 2008. The Bibles were hidden in the group’s suitcases. full story
ERITREA – Students Imprisoned in Shipping Container, Bibles Burned

Eight Students imprisoned in shipping container after protesting bibles being burned. full story
VOM and Charisma Magazine Discuss Persecution in China

VOM and Charisma Magazine Host Webcast to Discuss the Olympics, China, and Christian Persecution. full story
President Bush Receives VOM Olympic Prayer Band

Add one more China Olympic Prayer Band to the 500,000 given by VOM supporters to raise awareness of persecuted Christians. Just 24 hours ago, President George Bush received a prayer bracelet from Bob Fu, president of China Aid Association. full story
The Voice of the Martyrs’ website attacked

On July 24, VOM’s Web site was deliberately attacked forcing us to take the site offline temporarily. Our network engineers say the attack originated outside the United States. We have to believe the intent was to silence the online voice of the persecuted church. full story
ERITREA – Christian Woman Dies in Prison

On July 23, an Eritrean Christian woman, Azieb Simon, died of malaria in the Wi’a Military Training Center after being imprisoned and tortured for months. full story
INDIA – Christians Attacked by Hindu Extremists

KARNATAKA - On July 13, Hindu extremists disrupted a morning worship service at the Full Gospel Assembly Church in the village of Harapanahalli Taluk, Davangere district. full story
AZERBAIJAN – UPDATE: Court Hearing Held for Pastor

On July 22, a court hearing was held for Pastor Shabanov after he was arrested for possession of an illegal weapon. Pastor Shabanov's family insists the gun was planted by police. full story
Christians Abducted at Gunpoint by Muslim Extremists

PAKISTAN – On June 21, 16 Christians were abducted by Muslim extremists when they gathered to pray in Academy Town, Peshawar, Pakistan. full story
Christians Remain Strong and Resolute Despite Muslims Closing Church

INDONESIA – Recently, Muslims closed a church in Jatimula, Bekasi, West Java, Indonesia and blocked Christians from entering and holding services. full story
VOM’s Bibles Unbound Program Expanding

In case you have not visited VOM’s Bibles Unbound Web site recently, I wanted to highlight the new Covert Operations. A covert operation provides a unique opportunity to provide New Testaments into closed or hostile areas where mailing Bibles is not possible. full story
Pastor Assaulted by Hindu Extremist

On July 20, Pastor Abraham was assaulted by Hindu extremists in Haveri district, Karnataka state, India. full story
Nearly Half A Million Olympic Prayer Bracelets Ordered!

Nearly 500,000 Olympic Prayer Bands have been requested to date. The Voice of the Martyrs is processing the orders as fast as possible. We are so thankful for the tremendous support from Christians in the USA who are willing to pray for their persecuted brothers and sisters in China during the Olympics. full story

American Christians, we

Good job reading thar!

 

[Sketcher]

Huh. And here I've thought I've been hearing Christians saying that tolerance was the devils work for years. The gay people finally give up tolerance and switch to the "Christian" example and suddenly they complain about about it?

Interesting that you used quotes around "Christian." I think that means you know you're not talking about the mainline Christian approach, but you don't have a problem with mainline Christians getting what they don't dish out in the first place.

But you just said that it doesn't excuse others when they do it? So doesn't this mean that you need to account for the nature of the grief that Christians get, and whether it comes from "mainline" gay people or not?

I do, and I don't like where it's going. But back to what I actually said, Christians on the whole do not protest outside of mosques or Hindu temples, let alone mail white powder or set bombs. The OP made it sound like that sort of thing is commonplace.

 

[jcook922]

You'll find most of them dwelling in the camp of "the usual suspects." The usual non and anti Christian camp.



What's even more sad, far more sad, is that liberal Christianity is not much different than than non and anti belief systems that support it.



Bring it on. There is no support from the Apostolic witness for the progressive movement supported by liberal theology. The "Red Letters" of the Gospels declare that marriage is a man and a woman. Bye-bye liberalism on that subject. Up next: Abortion as birth control and Marxist socialism.



You mean the hell that Jesus mentions so many times?



What "turns people off" from God as well as Christians, is there desire to refuse to repent.



Jesus rebuked those that refuse the Gospel in similar harsh judgments.



Stop believing CNN and MSNBC, ABC, CBS, HBO and other "liberal media," and research the love and mercy, joy and hope preached in every Evangelical Church on earth. It will not cause you any physical harm at all.



Over 2000-years of that same threat and the Church is still alive and growing. Um, Christians were abolitionists BB.



Another myth about Christians not caring about those suffering with AIDS that they received in their own persons.

Why do I care? Because they are my neighbor. When they are sick, I also suffer from their illness. I have friends and family that are devout Christian, often confused about what to do in a changing world, and sometimes rushing back to 1st Century words to understand this centuries challenges.[/quote[

Other than cell phones, laptops and TV what's so different between the morality of Roman times to the morality of the 21st century?

Nero married a man. 2000 years ago. He also hated Christians too.



I'm sure they appreciate your support.

With people like you who try to take the high ground and just declare everybody else on the playgrounds ideas garbage, it's no wonder people hate Christians. You talk, but don't listen.

 

[Spherical Time]

Interesting that you used quotes around "Christian." I think that means you know you're not talking about the mainline Christian approach, but you don't have a problem with mainline Christians getting what they don't dish out in the first place.

As a "mainline" gay atheist, I don't always like the reactions caused by some gays or some atheists. I can't do anything about that; I don't have authority or influence with all of the other atheists out there, and when I can publically disagree with them on issues that I think they're wrong about, I do.

So, I have to say that until the mainline Christians stand up against Phelps and Hagee and other various fringe evangelicals (and they're not, only a small fraction do because the rest seeming endorse some form of disgust of "the gay lifestyle") I'd have to say "tough" to the mainline Christians getting crap.

I will say that I don't think the Mormons are part of the "mainline" Christians when it comes to blame for prop 8. For some reason they decided to pour millions into this campaign.

I will say that that the vandalism and attacks are plain out wrong and shouldn't be happening. This isn't a good way to convince people of your position. The only explanation that I can offer is that I think some gay people feel backed into a corner and they're getting vicious about it.

I do, and I don't like where it's going. But back to what I actually said, Christians on the whole do not protest outside of mosques or Hindu temples, let alone mail white powder or set bombs. The OP made it sound like that sort of thing is commonplace.

Gay people don't vandalize or attack Mormons as a whole.

I'm not ever really surprised by overgeneralizations anymore. It seems to be a quirk of language recently.

 

[keith99]

As a "mainline" gay atheist, I don't always like the reactions caused by some gays or some atheists. I can't do anything about that; I don't have authority or influence with all of the other atheists out there, and when I can publically disagree with them on issues that I think they're wrong about, I do.

So, I have to say that until the mainline Christians stand up against Phelps and Hagee and other various fringe evangelicals (and they're not, only a small fraction do because the rest seeming endorse some form of disgust of "the gay lifestyle") I'd have to say "tough" to the mainline Christians getting crap.

I will say that I don't think the Mormons are part of the "mainline" Christians when it comes to blame for prop 8. For some reason they decided to pour millions into this campaign.

I will say that that the vandalism and attacks are plain out wrong and shouldn't be happening. This isn't a good way to convince people of your position. The only explanation that I can offer is that I think some gay people feel backed into a corner and they're getting vicious about it.

Gay people don't vandalize or attack Mormons as a whole.

I'm not ever really surprised by overgeneralizations anymore. It seems to be a quirk of language recently.

You may not have any position to speak of in regards to the gay community. But out in Palm Springs there were plenty of people who do have some degree of respect in hte community who did speak out and say that they and the mainline gay community do not support the actions taken by a few.

As to vandalism I have not heard of much done by the Yes on 8 side.

Oops revise that. Last weekend I went to my college homecoming and there was a piece in hte student newspaper on just that. Houses vandalized with pejoritive names for gays. Guess it just doesn't get teh mainstream press.

 

[Spherical Time]

You may not have any position to speak of in regards to the gay community. But out in Palm Springs there were plenty of people who do have some degree of respect in hte community who did speak out and say that they and the mainline gay community do not support the actions taken by a few.

The problem is that contrary to popular belief, we don't own and run the media.

Oops revise that. Last weekend I went to my college homecoming and there was a piece in hte student newspaper on just that. Houses vandalized with pejoritive names for gays. Guess it just doesn't get teh mainstream press.

That happened at my school when I was in college too, seven or eight years ago.