"Help! We're being persecuted!"

[FaithLikeARock]

Here is an excerpt from a blog post I had on Facebook:

American Christians, we have no idea what persecution is like. We live in a country where the majority claims to be Christian. I won't go into how true that is. We live in a country that says man was created equal, where we have equal protection of the law. Yet, I see Christians who suggest laws based on the Bible and when they're told that they can't be laws, they call it discrimination. When anyone so much as suggests that they don't believe in Christianity, someone will call it discrimination. That isn't persecution. No where close. Real Christians who are persecuted have to go to church in hiding. Real Christians who are persecuted have to leave their families in order to protect them. Real Christians who are persecuted call themselves Believers in Jesus because they know that the name Christian is seen as immoral and unrighteous in the countries where they teach. And they don't complain. Not out loud. In America, people practically get paid to say that they're being persecuted.

The Bible warns us ahead of time about that. Jesus says that if your coat is taken from you, you give your shirt too (Luke 6:29). We can't complain. We were warned that there will be people who try to keep us from sharing the Good News. If we stop and complain, that is giving some of our energy away. People say "Well I can do this and this too". The study of our senses in psychology shows that if you divert your attention to just two things, it becomes more difficult to do both. Why do you think cell phones were banned while driving. This applies here too. If you put concentration on your personal persecution, you take it away from Christ's request. You take it away from sharing with others.

Why do we shout persecution? There is no right. Knowing that Christians do just as much of the persecuting, there is no reason for us to complain. It is sad because I am persecuted more by fellow Christians for not subscribing to that persons exact interpretation than I have ever been by non-Christians. Because non-Christians just want to be respected as human being. To fellow Christians I have to live by some sort of standard and if I don't then I'm failing God.

Why do Christians feel persecuted? Because they don't get special privileges? The ones that think that not teaching Christianity in school is persecution. That's pitiful. Who think that not having "under God" in the pledge is persecution. No. You have no idea. Considering yourself persecuted for vanity reasons like that is an insult to anyone who is persecuted.

 

[QuakerOats]

I agree.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

GLBT's are not our worst enemies, and atheists and humanists are just in it for the sport:

Voices of the Martyrs http://www.persecution.com/
(the real ones)

Christian Persecution Intensifies Across China

China Aid Association reports that since the end of the Olympics persecution has intensified. full story
U.S. Department of State Gravely Concerned by China’s Harassment of Pastor "Bike" Zhang

U.S. Department of State deeply concerned by continued harassment of Pastor "Bike" Zhang and his family. full story
Belarus – Protestant Bishop Deported

Ukrainian founder of largest charismatic church deported because of religious activity. full story
Afghanistan – Taliban Kills Christian Aid Worker

Taliban shot and killed Christian aid worker as she walked to work. full story
Media

Video - Underground Reality

See what happens when eight ordinary teens set out on a mission to meet the underground church in Vietnam. watch:


Recent News

CHINA - Prominent House Church Leader's Sons Assaulted by Chinese Police

Pastor Bike's sons severely beaten by Public Security Bureau officers. full story
India – More than 70,000 Christians displaced in Orissa

VOM sources report more than 70,000 believers have been displaced in Orissa state attacks. full story
Iraq – Seven Christians Killed in Mosul, Iraq

Iraqi police report seven Christians have been killed in Mosul so far this month. full story
Two Iranian Christians Released from Prison

Christians imprisoned in Shiraz, Iran, since May have been released. full story
International Day of Prayer for the Persecuted Church: November 9

BARTLESVILLE –The Voice of the Martyrs is calling on Christians worldwide to set aside Nov. 9, to pray for Christians around the world living daily under the threat of persecution as a part of the International Day of Prayer for the Persecuted Church (IDOP). full story
Christian Family Attacked and Three Killed

Three members of a Christian family killed after a neighbor blames them for his daughter’s stomach ailment. full story
North Korea - Christian Persecution Expected to Continue

VOM contacts expect persecution to continue despite reports North Korea’s dictator, Kim Jong Il might be ill. full story
INDIA – Violence against Christians Escalating in Orissa State

Outbreaks of violence against Christians escalating as homes, churches are burned in Orissa state. full story
Prominent House Church leader Released from Prison

Chinese Pastor Zhang "Bike" Mingxuan, wife and co-worker released. full story
Petition to Free Senior House Church Leader Launched

VOM and China Aid Launch Petition Drive to Free Pastor Zhang "Bike" Mingxuan. full story
Saudi Arabia – Saudi Man Killed Daughter for Converting to Christianity

Father cuts his daughter’s tongue and burns her Christian conversion. full story
Olympic Persecution: China Confiscates Bibles

Customs officials confiscated 315 Chinese Bibles from a Vision Beyond Borders team on Sunday, August 17, 2008. The Bibles were hidden in the group’s suitcases. full story
ERITREA – Students Imprisoned in Shipping Container, Bibles Burned

Eight Students imprisoned in shipping container after protesting bibles being burned. full story
VOM and Charisma Magazine Discuss Persecution in China

VOM and Charisma Magazine Host Webcast to Discuss the Olympics, China, and Christian Persecution. full story
President Bush Receives VOM Olympic Prayer Band

Add one more China Olympic Prayer Band to the 500,000 given by VOM supporters to raise awareness of persecuted Christians. Just 24 hours ago, President George Bush received a prayer bracelet from Bob Fu, president of China Aid Association. full story
The Voice of the Martyrs’ website attacked

On July 24, VOM’s Web site was deliberately attacked forcing us to take the site offline temporarily. Our network engineers say the attack originated outside the United States. We have to believe the intent was to silence the online voice of the persecuted church. full story
ERITREA – Christian Woman Dies in Prison

On July 23, an Eritrean Christian woman, Azieb Simon, died of malaria in the Wi’a Military Training Center after being imprisoned and tortured for months. full story
INDIA – Christians Attacked by Hindu Extremists

KARNATAKA - On July 13, Hindu extremists disrupted a morning worship service at the Full Gospel Assembly Church in the village of Harapanahalli Taluk, Davangere district. full story
AZERBAIJAN – UPDATE: Court Hearing Held for Pastor

On July 22, a court hearing was held for Pastor Shabanov after he was arrested for possession of an illegal weapon. Pastor Shabanov's family insists the gun was planted by police. full story
Christians Abducted at Gunpoint by Muslim Extremists

PAKISTAN – On June 21, 16 Christians were abducted by Muslim extremists when they gathered to pray in Academy Town, Peshawar, Pakistan. full story
Christians Remain Strong and Resolute Despite Muslims Closing Church

INDONESIA – Recently, Muslims closed a church in Jatimula, Bekasi, West Java, Indonesia and blocked Christians from entering and holding services. full story
VOM’s Bibles Unbound Program Expanding

In case you have not visited VOM’s Bibles Unbound Web site recently, I wanted to highlight the new Covert Operations. A covert operation provides a unique opportunity to provide New Testaments into closed or hostile areas where mailing Bibles is not possible. full story
Pastor Assaulted by Hindu Extremist

On July 20, Pastor Abraham was assaulted by Hindu extremists in Haveri district, Karnataka state, India. full story
Nearly Half A Million Olympic Prayer Bracelets Ordered!

Nearly 500,000 Olympic Prayer Bands have been requested to date. The Voice of the Martyrs is processing the orders as fast as possible. We are so thankful for the tremendous support from Christians in the USA who are willing to pray for their persecuted brothers and sisters in China during the Olympics. full story

 

[FaithLikeARock]

It's funny how suddenly you care Polycarp. When you're one of the main people on this forum constantly calling the lack of God in schools a form of persecution. Because obviously not being aloud to force children into a belief system is discrimination. And you seemed to have missed the point anyway. They don't complain. Real Christians DON'T complain and they don't attack back and they don't make a big point about "the enemy". Real love comes without enemies and as Christians the only enemy we have is Satan. And if your faith in God was as strong as you claim, then even that wouldn't be a worry.

I take criticism. I don't care. God is stronger than that. Strong enough that I don't mind whatever persecution I might recieve. American Christians would never give their lives for Jesus. Not when they complain at the tiniest things and not when they call anyone who persecutes them an "enemy". They're human beings. They're creations of God. To call anything created by God an "enemy" is pitiful.

 

[Beanieboy]

I completely agree with your OP. I remember once picking out a movie at the Library. A woman started up a conversation, and said how hard it was to be a Christian in the US. I said, "What? You are in the majority. Cities decorate for Christmas, but not Hanukah, not Eid and Ramadan, not Rosh Hashana, not Yom Kipur. But you will see Easter Baskets in stores. There are more churches than any mosques or temples. Our money even says, "In God We Trust." You aren't sought out and killed like in other countries. Bibles aren't banned. So, you know nothing about "how hard it is". Imagine being a Jew, while everyone celebrates Christmas. Imagine being a Muslim who is constantly asked why she is covered up, or if she is a terrorist..."

Grrrrr.

Ok, that said - do you think that there is a different attitude toward Christianity than other religions? A coworker mentioned that he thought it unfair that Jesus is parodied on South Park, Life of Brian, etc., but one would not do that to Allah/Mohammed, Yahweh (Jews), or other religions - at least not in the States.

I think Christians or Christianity being the target, as well as the idea of falsely being persecuted, is that Christians in the 50s or so had an advantage. They were able to influence government, against the First Amendment. School prayer to Jesus was not questioned because most kids, especially in small towns, were Christian. They were the majority.

However, once asked for equality, the Christians were put on a level playing field, and then, claimed that they were being persecuted. Allowing gays to marry suddenly became an area where they were unable to control the lives of others, so they say that it goes against their beliefs to try to stop it, or call it immorality, and try to enforce others to live under their beliefs. Unfortunately, due to the First Amendment (which is not the First Commandment), the Constitution prevents them from making the US a Christian nation - a theocracy.

I also think for this reason, the constant attack on the rights of others, whether it be against blacks, interracial marriage, gays, jews, or whomever, conservative Christians have gained a reputation as bullies. Because, like a few posters here, or like Pat Robertson shamelessly scapegoating gays, lesbians and feminists for 9/11, they have gained a reputation of being extremely dishonest in a number of ways: Scapegoating (9/11), twisting of Scripture (when Jesus told the woman accused of adultery to "GO AND SIN NO MORE!!!" it was strong rebuke, and the point of the passage), playing dumb (Gee, you can't get married? Well, so what? Who cares what others think? You can still get married in a church - and have none of it count legally. But what does that matter?), head in the sand (what Christian has ever said that God hates gays?), false burdens (hey - if I wanted to marry a guy, I couldn't either - only, I don't want to, will never want to, and can marry who I love now), generalization (this article talks about a gay guy who killed someone. See? Gays are murderers. Pay not attention that a lot of straight people kill as well...)

So, it's like the kid that you watch going home everyday that teases the dog that's tied up. One day, the dog is off his leash, and attacks the dog. The boy says, "Why would the dog attack me????" Unfortunately, he usually garners little sympathy, and if anything, you want to bite him yourself.

The Simpsons use the Flanders as a contrast to the Simpsons. Initially, I heard many people complaining about mocking Ned, but Ned soon became a favorite to many people, a person that tried so hard to live a good life, sometimes to a fault. You saw the humanity of Ned, and that's why he became so loved.

 

[Beanieboy]

American Christians would never give their lives for Jesus. Not when they complain at the tiniest things and not when they call anyone who persecutes them an "enemy". They're human beings. They're creations of God. To call anything created by God an "enemy" is pitiful.

I think the problem is their attitudes about God. I will often hear someone who is Christian pray for a job promotion, pray for a parking spot, pray to have God intervene and help them win the game, and yet, they say that Jesus is their Lord.

That's not a Lord. That's a servant, a genie.

If one is a servant of God, they should be asking God how they can serve him, what they can do for him.

 

[SallyNow]

It's funny how suddenly you care Polycarp. When you're one of the main people on this forum constantly calling the lack of God in schools a form of persecution. Because obviously not being aloud to force children into a belief system is discrimination. And you seemed to have missed the point anyway. They don't complain. Real Christians DON'T complain and they don't attack back and they don't make a big point about "the enemy". Real love comes without enemies and as Christians the only enemy we have is Satan. And if your faith in God was as strong as you claim, then even that wouldn't be a worry.

I take criticism. I don't care. God is stronger than that. Strong enough that I don't mind whatever persecution I might recieve. American Christians would never give their lives for Jesus. Not when they complain at the tiniest things and not when they call anyone who persecutes them an "enemy". They're human beings. They're creations of God. To call anything created by God an "enemy" is pitiful.

So very true.

In North America Christians are not persecuted. In other parts of the world they actually are. But it's the North American Christians, and American Christians especially, who cry "persecution" the most. They cry "persecution" because they're expected to treat others like they want themselves treated. (which happens to be in the Bible, so they're crying persecution at being expected to follow Christian principles!)

Let me amend that. In North America, there are isolated cases of a few Christians being persecuted, attacked or harassed for their belief by a few others, but there is no systematic persecution, no systemic persecution, no widespread persecution, no risk that one will end up having things poured on them.

Real persecution happens to Christians in other nations, where they risk going to jail if they go to church, risk being covered in acid, risk being killed. Where are the American "persecuted" churches when non-Americans are being actually persecuted, threatened, killed? Many times they're on American TV whining about how being asked not to force a workplace or school to pray is persecution.

It seems very much that the churches that complain the least about having to respect laws about the seperation of the church and state in the USA are the ones that are more likely to be helping those in other nations who are undergoing actual persecution.

 

[Polycarp1]

I think the problem is their attitudes about God. I will often hear someone who is Christian pray for a job promotion, pray for a parking spot, pray to have God intervene and help them win the game, and yet, they say that Jesus is their Lord.

That's not a Lord. That's a servant, a genie.

If one is a servant of God, they should be asking God how they can serve him, what they can do for him.

At my age, this post immediately gave rise in my mind to a parody of the famous Kennedy quote. But on thinking about it, and realizing the truth of what you said, it's not a parody at all, but the simple truth:

Ask not what the Lord can do for you, but what you can do for the Lord.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

It's funny how suddenly you care Polycarp. When you're one of the main people on this forum constantly calling the lack of God in schools a form of persecution.

Care to quote me somewhere saying that? I have been consistent from the start at caring for my brothers and sisters in Christ. I ahve written several times that we are not being persecuted by the constant denigration and belittling that the non's and anti's and GLBT's keep bashing us with.

Because obviously not being aloud to force children into a belief system is discrimination.

I use the phrase "free exchange of ideas," for a reason. Christians should have just as much rights to children in schools as those desiring gay sex and humanism have. But we are outlawed and they are allowed total access. That's discrimination.

And you seemed to have missed the point anyway. They don't complain. Real Christians DON'T complain and they don't attack back and they don't make a big point about "the enemy".

I'm a real Christian. Why can't we complain? Paul did. And look what he did for the faith.

Real love comes without enemies and as Christians the only enemy we have is Satan.

And his workers.

And if your faith in God was as strong as you claim, then even that wouldn't be a worry.

I have proven over and over again, that I am not afriad of anyone. I keep responding to every post thrown at me. The best I can anyway. I don;t get all huffy and puffy when bashed and run away. Unlike my adversaries.

I take criticism. I don't care.

Then where do you get the right to bash me? Prove my error or back away. I don't even care if you apologize.

God is stronger than that.

Which God? Or no God? Whose side are you on?

Strong enough that I don't mind whatever persecution I might recieve.

That is a very bold, if not absurd statement. We can't even turn off the TV that poisons are very lives.

American Christians would never give their lives for Jesus.

That's a blatant lie. Many, many, many American Christians have already given their lives for Christ in filth-ridden countries all over this planet.

Not when they complain at the tiniest things and not when they call anyone who persecutes them an "enemy".

There are very certain enemies. They are the people that search for a destroy us and our children with this sick and twisted perversion of lust that has already killed thousands and thousands of Christians that have been seduced by them and it.

They're human beings. They're creations of God. To call anything created by God an "enemy" is pitiful.

So much for the Apostles huh?

 

[TheBear]

One day, hopefully soon but probably not in our lifetime, mankind will finally grow up and shed itself of the shackles of the ancient crutch of superstition and the supernatural, and the intrinsically divisive nature of religion will be something we've all moved past, and the term "religious persecution" will be something we can look upon like slavery and the dark ages.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

One day, hopefully soon but probably not in our lifetime, mankind will finally grow up and shed itself of the shackles of the ancient crutch of superstition and the supernatural, and the intrinsically divisive nature of religion will be something we've all moved past, and the term "religious persecution" will be something we can look upon like slavery and the dark ages.

They will be replaced by darwinian subjugation of the weak by the strong.

We have enough evidence of that now to know what we could easily expect.

 

[Beanieboy]

Thank you, Debbie Downer

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Thank you, Debbie Downer

Whah whahhhhhh.

That was good B-B.

 

[FaithLikeARock]

Polycarp, the fact that part of your argument is "well Paul did it and he did good works so it's obviously okay" pretty much sets the rest up for failure. Paul was human. He was just as capable of mistakes. The better question is, did JESUS ever complain. And He didn't. He wrongfully suffered and He just took it. Expected it even. Never once did He try to run. What's stopping you from being like that? Why do you compare yourself to Paul? That's a pretty low standard. Is that what your faith in God is? The Bible says to be like Jesus, not like Paul.

 

[katautumn]

I remember reading a quote on another forum in which a member stated that the DC bus ads that say "Why believe in God? Be good for goodness sake" were a form of persecution.

Christians in America have a persecution complex for the same reason our economy is in the toilet - greed. They want to be persecuted. They seek it out. They act in a manner that will almost guarantee they are ridiculed, ignored or maybe even confronted because they believe if they are persecuted not only are they "doing something right", but they also think it will increase their prosperity in heaven.

 

[Ryal Kane]

Yes, the long war on Christianity. I pray that one day we may live in an America where Christians can worship freely! In broad daylight! Openly wearing the symbols of their religion.... perhaps around their necks? And maybe - dare I dream it? - maybe one day there can be an openly Christian President. Or, perhaps, 43 of them. Consecutively.
-Jon Stewart:

 

[CreedIsChrist]

Here is an excerpt from a blog post I had on Facebook:

American Christians, we have no idea what persecution is like. We live in a country where the majority claims to be Christian. I won't go into how true that is. We live in a country that says man was created equal, where we have equal protection of the law. Yet, I see Christians who suggest laws based on the Bible and when they're told that they can't be laws, they call it discrimination. When anyone so much as suggests that they don't believe in Christianity, someone will call it discrimination. That isn't persecution. No where close. Real Christians who are persecuted have to go to church in hiding. Real Christians who are persecuted have to leave their families in order to protect them. Real Christians who are persecuted call themselves Believers in Jesus because they know that the name Christian is seen as immoral and unrighteous in the countries where they teach. And they don't complain. Not out loud. In America, people practically get paid to say that they're being persecuted.

The Bible warns us ahead of time about that. Jesus says that if your coat is taken from you, you give your shirt too (Luke 6:29). We can't complain. We were warned that there will be people who try to keep us from sharing the Good News. If we stop and complain, that is giving some of our energy away. People say "Well I can do this and this too". The study of our senses in psychology shows that if you divert your attention to just two things, it becomes more difficult to do both. Why do you think cell phones were banned while driving. This applies here too. If you put concentration on your personal persecution, you take it away from Christ's request. You take it away from sharing with others.

Why do we shout persecution? There is no right. Knowing that Christians do just as much of the persecuting, there is no reason for us to complain. It is sad because I am persecuted more by fellow Christians for not subscribing to that persons exact interpretation than I have ever been by non-Christians. Because non-Christians just want to be respected as human being. To fellow Christians I have to live by some sort of standard and if I don't then I'm failing God.

Why do Christians feel persecuted? Because they don't get special privileges? The ones that think that not teaching Christianity in school is persecution. That's pitiful. Who think that not having "under God" in the pledge is persecution. No. You have no idea. Considering yourself persecuted for vanity reasons like that is an insult to anyone who is persecuted.

an 18 year old American teenage girl proceeding to tell others what true persecution is and that considering oneself persecuted is vanity.. Then proceeds to tell others she's persecuted because some christians don't agree on her interperatation of parts of the bible..

lol


ANd yes there is persecution. Mostly in places of Asia and communist/atheist countrys like China. Christians are being slaughetered in those areas and in parts of the middle east they are nearly extinct. Bishops being abducted and murdered. School girls being killed by Godless muslims in their own countrys.

While its not on the same scale in America there is a different form of it. The ACLU is probably the biggest "bully pulpit" of the anti-christians today in America. Hopefully that monster will be taken down just like it needs to be.

Polycarp, the fact that part of your argument is "well Paul did it and he did good works so it's obviously okay" pretty much sets the rest up for failure. Paul was human. He was just as capable of mistakes. The better question is, did JESUS ever complain. And He didn't. He wrongfully suffered and He just took it. Expected it even. Never once did He try to run. What's stopping you from being like that? Why do you compare yourself to Paul? That's a pretty low standard. Is that what your faith in God is? The Bible says to be like Jesus, not like Paul.

Forgetting that Jesus was sinless and the Son of God with divine supernatural power no human being could ever live up the exact same way Christ did. Also Paul spoke from the Holy Spirit, his words were inspired by God, thus his words have just as much authority. The bible needs to be taken in as a whole, the Gospels don't overlap the epistles or visa versa.

And why would Jeuss run? THats was what he set out to do. And he knew. To sacrifice himself on the cross to give humans full atonement for our sins. No human can be compared to that. There are ways we can emulate the way Christ lived, but in no way can we do it the way Christ did. We are too broken and sinful to live such a righteous life and can only hope for mercy. Even the most pious of the saints knew how far away they were no matter how much self sacrifice they did.

And St Paul a low standard? what gives you the authority to know what is a low standard and what is not? Your calling a man, that Christ chose to be an apostle during his ressurection, who worked miracles, a low standard? Please get off your pedestal

 

[Andreusz]

^ Muslims are hardly "Godless".

 

[Sketcher]

Why do Christians feel persecuted? Because they don't get special privileges? The ones that think that not teaching Christianity in school is persecution. That's pitiful. Who think that not having "under God" in the pledge is persecution. No. You have no idea. Considering yourself persecuted for vanity reasons like that is an insult to anyone who is persecuted.

I don't do that. I would consider receiving envelopes with white powder in them persecution. Now, technically, it wasn't Christians who got this treatment lately, it was the Mormons, but the gay activists who did this don't draw the same theological lines that most Christians do. They're going after Mormons, Catholic Christians, and Protestant Christians alike.

 

[Cabal]

Bravo to the OP, as far as I'm concerned, if you're not in jail or being gassed, suck it up. Noone in the western hemisphere really has a clue what persecution is, I wish we wouldn't bandy the word about so much.

And, being someone who doesn't subscribe to many mainstream (?)) ideas like the Rapture and YEC/ID, I get grief on a far more regular basis from other Christians than I do from non-Christians (and I tend not to assume that grief from non-Christians automatically equals me doing something correctly either). So I know where you're coming from on that.