Help needed

[Catherineanne]

I need help from my fellow Anglicans to understand a very difficult situation, and to find a way to manage it.

My church has turned on me and thrown me out. They have behaved like a pack of wolves.

I am left feeling very, very hurt. Can anyone understand? Can anyone help me to find a way forward?

 

[razzelflabben]

I don't belong in this thread, but I do understand better than most. Our own church is made up of a disproportionate number of people who have been hurt by the church. Sometimes it feels almost like an epidemic. Well, like I said, I am not really allowed to post here, but I ran across this while looking for your other thread and wanted you to know, that you are not alone. Love you, dear friend.

 

[HEsTiLLALiVe]

Put your whole heart in Jesus hand, not in anyone or anything else, and He will see you through.

 

[Catherineanne]

I don't belong in this thread, but I do understand better than most. Our own church is made up of a disproportionate number of people who have been hurt by the church. Sometimes it feels almost like an epidemic. Well, like I said, I am not really allowed to post here, but I ran across this while looking for your other thread and wanted you to know, that you are not alone. Love you, dear friend.

You do belong, Razzel. Anglicans don't mind fellowship posts. I only posted here because this was an Anglican vicar.

Thank you for your kindness. I do indeed feel very alone. With any other crisis in life we turn to our priest. Who do we turn to when he is the one doing the damage?

This is very difficult.

 

[Catherineanne]

Put your whole heart in Jesus hand, not in anyone or anything else, and He will see you through.

That is all very well in theory, but putting my whole heart into the Lord was what got me into this situation in the first place.

 

[razzelflabben]

You do belong, Razzel. Anglicans don't mind fellowship posts. I only posted here because this was an Anglican vicar.

Thank you for your kindness. I do indeed feel very alone. With any other crisis in life we turn to our priest. Who do we turn to when he is the one doing the damage?

This is very difficult.

thanks for the welcome...since we haven't really been abused by the "priest" (we have pastors) I can't speak for that, but I can speak for being the "priest/pastor" that is being abused. None the less, when it is the person you go to for spiritual guidance, it is a betrayal of the worst kind and can be a real challenge to not see God/Christ as the betrayer. The time in scripture I can remember the spiritual leaders betraying the people, Christ reprimanded them (the Pharisees and Sadducees) and at one point called them white washed tombs. What few people in leadership understand, is how much responsibility there is to being in that position. In our current church, we have this issue, the associate pastor, has absolutely no idea how important, serious, and responsible God thinks the calling is. Judgment for the leader will be harsh...James has a lot to say about such teachers, but consider James 3:1-2 Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. 2 We all stumble in many ways. Anyone who is never at fault in what they say is perfect, able to keep their whole body in check.

But, to encourage you, consider this, whereas their judgment will be more strict, the grace and favor of our Lord will be greater for those who endure, those to stand firm...Matthew 10:22; Mark 13:13, I Corinthians 16:13 and this gem I found especially encouraging to your situation. I Corinthians 15:58
Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.

 

[MKJ]

It is very hard to give advice in a situation like this. It is really impossible to know how the others are understanding the situation or their reasoning.

I think though that given your description of your state, you need to concentrate on taking care of your own emotional heaalth at the moment. And that will mean, I think, that you may not be in much of a state to deal with the people at your parish in any deep way, trying to mend fences or reconcile or whatever. That may be a task for later, but not now.

I think it would also be a good idea to try and refrain from judging them, or even being angry if you can. That all takes emotional energy that would be best directed elsewhere.

I think it might be a good idea to look to the other church you have mentioned, or some other place, perhaps without making any permanent commitments for now. And whatever other people you can gather around you, as well.

I will keep you in my prayers,

meghan

 

[vespasia]

That does not sound at all good. I am however glad one of the CW's came to see you and was kind.

Unfortunatly many churches do run on gossip. Its not something I encourage and tend to flatten those who gossip under the guise of 'for prayer'.

Now how where you sacked by two wardens and the vicar without this being voted on by the PCC?
[General provisions relating to parochial church councils - Church representation Rules 2006] says that the PCC elects one or more of its members to act as treasurer solely or jointly. It is only in the event of the PCC being unable to elect a treasurer that the duty falls onto a CW. Treasurer is more than dealing with the collection it involves discharhing the parish obligations to the common fund, application for grants and so on. There should be a minute recording any concerns that an elected officer such as a treasurer is no longer able to fulfil the duty of the office.

I think in this instance you may have grounds to contact the Archdeacon urgently and ask their advice on your removal and how it was done. It is the Archdeacon who installs wardens and it would be a brave PCC not to offer all the paperwork they demanded and full minutes of the PCC for their administrative oversight.

Pastorally how you have been treated leaves me appauled and even more committed that such should not happen on my 'watch' in leadership.

You are currently unwell and should not have to deal directly with a PCC who have treated you in this way without warning. DO ask for support and help from the Archdeacon to help with the transition of paperwork between you and the new treasurer. I can assure you that the accounts will be of interest to the diocese.

That is not me being nice......I have a lot of respect for the Arch deacons I know personally and the huge majority are very good at acting as mediators when relationships have utterly broken down between an office holder on the PCC and the CW's / Clergy. The Arch Deacon can also help by putting you in contact with pastoral support for you that is not involved with this current church or even deanary. That should be possible to do without you having to feel you MUST attend a church service on top at this time.

Some folk find going to the Cathderal services both a solace and help when church has burnt them and hurt them. I have no idea if your able to access such but if you are able to it may just help to be able to go and use the paryer chapels. Most have on call chaplains who can just listen and could come and pray with you if that would help

Please see your GP an get the medical care you need. You deserve their support.

I have and will continue to pray for you and if I can help you find your way to the right bit of the CofE for support your welcome to pm' me.

 

[Catherineanne]

Support would be good. I feel very alone.

 

[Catherineanne]

The Lord certainly works in very strange ways.

 

[Catherineanne]

But, to encourage you, consider this, whereas their judgment will be more strict, the grace and favor of our Lord will be greater for those who endure, those to stand firm...Matthew 10:22; Mark 13:13, I Corinthians 16:13 and this gem I found especially encouraging to your situation. I Corinthians 15:58
Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.

Thank you; that all helps.

I am afraid all I can do at present is lie around feeling frail. Standing is a bit beyond me.

 

[razzelflabben]

Yes, leadership is a great responsibility, but I take no pleasure from thinking of divine vengeance.

I just want my church back, and it is not going to happen.

I didn't mean it that way, what I meant is that everyone in leadership needs to be aware of how much responsibility there is to the job. I dare say if the priest that is doing this to you, had a clue how huge a responsibility his job really entailed, especially when it comes to you, he would have behaved very differently....sorry, I should have been more clear about my intentions there. My sincere apologies.

Thank you; that all helps.

I am afraid all I can do at present is lie around feeling frail. Standing is a bit beyond me.

that is why you have people still here for you, people who are willing to hold you up when your strength has gone. Exodus 17:12 When Moses' hands grew tired, they took a stone and put it under him and he sat on it. Aaron and Hur held his hands up--one on one side, one on the other--so that his hands remained steady till sunset.

Let some of us held your arms up to the Lord...

 

[Catherineanne]

that is why you have people still here for you, people who are willing to hold you up when your strength has gone. Exodus 17:12 When Moses' hands grew tired, they took a stone and put it under him and he sat on it. Aaron and Hur held his hands up--one on one side, one on the other--so that his hands remained steady till sunset.

Let some of us held your arms up to the Lord...

Thank you so much. That is a lovely image.

 

[razzelflabben]

You don't have to apologise, dear R. I know you intended to give a warning to any of us in positions of responsibility.

Fr was very good to me when my former husband died. It is a very confusing mixture of remembering that with gratitude, and remembering his anger just recently. I cannot work out what I did wrong, when I tried to protect the church - I did protect the church - every day that I was there.

I may not be expressing myself very well.



Thank you so much. That is a lovely image.

I just felt bad that anything I said even reminded you of vengeance, that so was intended and I just feel bad that idea came into the picture. I honestly think God's vengeance is about trusting Him, not about what happens to another person.

Also wanted to say this, my ministry and study are about biblical love, to that end, one of the things we often forget, is that Love is Patient (I Cor. 13 among others) Too many times, someone is hurting and in need, so we minister to them, comforting them, till the tears become something we think we can handle, then we move on, forgetting that Love is patient, that is endures. From what you have said to me, this may be the problem with what is going on at your church (guessing based on your posts) Love in this case, has failed to endure. (way common problem, I'm not trying to pick on anyone here) What everyone involved, including you, needs to remember, is that love does endure. Even when you are too weak to endure, Christ endures for you. Even when things seem their bleakest, love endures. It sounds like you are working towards enduring which is amazing given your weakness right now, and is a wonderful testimony to you and your love for God. But, maybe the church and those that have wronged you, need to be reminded by God, to endure as well.

We had a false teacher in our midst oh, about 3 years ago. He truly was a false teacher, not just someone being accused of being rude. None the less, the man was allowed to come to the church, for I don't know it was a year or more, as long as he did not teach, before he taught out of tern and was removed from fellowship. My point of that story, is to show that endurance is important, not just with our brothers, but with those opposed to us as well. I don't know, maybe I'm talking out of turn and just making things worse by saying these things, if so, please just say so and I will leave. What you describe is so far removed from the patience and kindness, and care of the Love a priest/pastor is called to have for the sheep, that it hurts me to even think about it. Maybe because my husband has been a pastor, or maybe because of the situation in our current church, or maybe something else, not sure, I feel justified to say, that they were wrong, however, that does not exempt you from the Love of I Cor. 13 toward them (which I see in you, just saying, it is what you have to cling to at the moment)

I don't know, the more I talk the more I feel like this will be taken wrong, so I guess it is time for me to just be quiet.

May you feel the comfort of God as He holds you in His arms, the comfort of your brothers and sisters in Christ as they struggle to lift you us through this. May you know the grace of the Savior, His favor smiling upon you, and a mercy unlike anything you could imagine.

 

[Cappadocious]

Catherine,

Their loss!

 

[vespasia]

If one of the wardens feels the priest has acted outside their authority and has not been listened to then they too can report to the Archdeacon.

My nickname varies between the vicars sheepdog and the vicars rottweiler depedning on the situation, the circumstances and the need. All love the sheepdog and prefer to think of me as being on their side; no one really wants to poke the rotweiler and have me growl at them and get them back in line.
Part of the duty of a warden is to take the clergys back. That does not mean collusion when things start to go wrong but to remind them to take days off, encourage them when down and kick them up the backside when they forget they too are servents of the church and are about to sail off assuming canon law no longer need apply.

Call the area dean again, from experience it is not that she is ignoring you but because she is aware you feel fragile does not want to make you feel hounded. Life happens even for area deans and she may not be aware it might help just to talk to someone friendly. Be brave and make contact with her again.

If you have not got oversight of the accounts do not act as a countersignatory for any further cheques. That is the PCC's problem to solve. I have to admit most messes involving anything financial does tend to have the average member of the clergy wincing, it is not that they do not care but simply they do not know how to help. The Archdeacon tends to be a wizz at administration of paper and people and most have a very good head for figures and know who to put people in contact with when its looking ugly.

There are also clergy who bother attending the MHFA courses and similar run by MH chaplains; they know if someone is acting out of character then they may not be so well and can offer better care than those who are scared of anything to do with mental distress or ilness. If your priest has not fulfilled his duty of pastoral care then that needs to be flagged up to snr clergy. The Area dean and possibly the Bishop spring to mind but I would start with the dean first as she at least has picked up you are bereft of pastoral care.

 

[CAJ]

Catherineanne;
Your situation is complex to be sure and I cannot offer any advice. What I can do is pray and you may count on that.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

Praying for you now.

 

[Catherineanne]

May you feel the comfort of God as He holds you in His arms, the comfort of your brothers and sisters in Christ as they struggle to lift you us through this. May you know the grace of the Savior, His favor smiling upon you, and a mercy unlike anything you could imagine.

Thank you. I already begin to see all of those things, through your posts. Thank you so much.

 

[Catherineanne]

Catherine,

Their loss!

In terms of getting things done, yes.

Thanks, C.